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  1. #69
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    [...]Currently, if Lee Chong Wei's participation rate remains unchanged, he would surely hold the No.1 position for the next 12 months (that is to mid-2010).[...]
    'Participation' isn't going to help Chong Wei remain at No. 1.
    'Winning' is what counts.

    That raises the question: Can he keep winning?

    Like what happened at the 2009 India Open, isn't it possible that Lee Chong Wei will run into another upstart or seasoned contender in one of the many many tournaments ahead?

    I hope this is NOT another way of saying that Lee Chong Wei can't be beaten by anyone other than Lin Dan. Such an argument smacks of jingoism or misplaced optimism or both

  2. #70
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Lee Chong Wei can still be No.1 if he is to be Runners-Up throughout 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post

    'Participation' isn't going to help Chong Wei remain at No. 1.
    'Winning' is what counts.

    That raises the question: Can he keep winning?

    .
    Disagree.

    With his big lead in the World Ranking points, Lee Chong Wei can still be No.1 if he is to come up as Runners-Up in all his tournament in 2009.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    Like what happened at the 2009 India Open, isn't it possible that Lee Chong Wei will run into another upstart or seasoned contender in one of the many many tournaments ahead?

    I hope this is NOT another way of saying that Lee Chong Wei can't be beaten by anyone other than Lin Dan. Such an argument smacks of jingoism or misplaced optimism or both

    No, we are not here to say that Lee Chong Wei is unbeatable.

    We are saying that no one (currently) can earn enough points to overtake him.
    .

  3. #71
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    'Participation' isn't going to help Chong Wei remain at No. 1.
    'Winning' is what counts.

    That raises the question: Can he keep winning?

    Like what happened at the 2009 India Open, isn't it possible that Lee Chong Wei will run into another upstart or seasoned contender in one of the many many tournaments ahead?

    I hope this is NOT another way of saying that Lee Chong Wei can't be beaten by anyone other than Lin Dan. Such an argument smacks of jingoism or misplaced optimism or both
    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    .
    Disagree.

    With his big lead in the World Ranking points, Lee Chong Wei can still be No.1 if he is to come up as Runners-Up in all his tournament in 2009[...]
    Er, I don't see how he can become a Runner-Up without 'winning'.

    If participation is enough, then he might as well do an 'India-Open-appearance' in every tournament ahead. That makes things a lot easier for him

  4. #72
    Regular Member ants's Avatar
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    I would rather be a winner than just be No1. Like Tiger Woods, he is no longer no1. But people still remembers him as a Winner and a player who made the most impact in the game of GOLF.

  5. #73
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow World Rankings do not matter much for the better players

    Quote Originally Posted by ants View Post

    I would rather be a winner than just be No1. Like Tiger Woods, he is no longer no1. But people still remembers him as a Winner and a player who made the most impact in the game of GOLF.

    .
    Yes ... In a way, Tiger Woods is like Lin Dan.

    Knowing that they are excellent in their sports, the World Rankings do not matter much for them.
    .

  6. #74
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Btw..

    Quote Originally Posted by Pemuda View Post
    This is mind boggling indeed.
    ...
    ..just in case & just to cover all the bases in the likelihood scenario LCW's WR #1 is overtaken before the 2012 OG, chris@ccc has put forth a challenge that he doesn't see any other player(s) other than those from CHN would be able to claim the WR #1 spot...(post #63 & 67). In other words, if a player from CHN overtakes LCW's WR#1 spot before the 2012 OG, it is as expected.

    Thus, this thread sounds more like "Which other non-CHN MS player9s) can challenge LCW and overtake his WR#1 spot before the 2012 OG??"...
    Last edited by ctjcad; 04-09-2009 at 01:09 AM.

  7. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    .
    Currently, we cannot find newer stronger Mens Singles players from Denmark, Indonesia, Korea, etc... Yes, perhaps some could appear later, perhaps in 2010 or in 2011. But it won't be likely that they could take away Lee Chong Wei' No.1 position by the time the 2012 Olympic Games Badminton event arrives.
    To keep his WR - I must say Lee Chong Wei played the biggest part. Neither Chen Long, nor anyone.

  8. #76
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    Default 3 different corners of winning

    How do you discuss sensibly when you don't seem to be on the same wavelength on 'winning'?
    Chris' meaning of winning is 'winning titles'.
    Oldhand's is just 'winning matches'
    Ants' is being perceived a winner without winning.
    What's a current WR1?
    A current WR1 is a current superior mark of consistency.A former WR1 is an indication of former supremacy.It is not possible to be WR1 by just maximising tournament attendance.A player has to be able to reach or win finals most of the time to attain WR1.Sometimes they achieved it with assists (eg LD) and sometimes on their own(eg LCW) Certainly it's gonna be a lot tougher for LCW to maintain his WR1 on his own steam.
    The interesting thing about LCW is that he has reached WR1 when there's still lots of room for improvement.Eg his tactics.As LM said,it's still behind LD. Can you imagine LCW playing even better when his tactics is superior even when his speed is less?
    But to say that CHN seems not interested in WR is first class diplomacy.If CHN is not interested in WR, why would they bother to win? It's just not easy for CHN now as long as non-CHN teams maintain or increase their budget and continue to send their players for exposure.Non-CHN BAs determine CHN's progress through their participation strategy.Previously,non-CHN increase their budget for Olympics year.If they are smart, they should maintain or increase their budgets until their stars are more established in the rankings.Then they can cut down the budget to just maintain exposure for their top players.

  9. #77
    Regular Member ants's Avatar
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    My Winner is Winner of Titles. Not Winner in 1st or 2nd rounds. This got nothing to do with LCW personally. What i mean is in General.

  10. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    .
    It's not to say 'given up', but to say 'cannot find'.

    Currently, if Lee Chong Wei's participation rate remains unchanged, he would surely hold the No.1 position for the next 12 months (that is to mid-2010).

    Currently, if Lin Dan is to participate in more tournaments, he could be the most likely candidate to topple LCW by mid-2010. But CHN does not seem interested.

    Some have said that Chen Long could be the one to topple Lee Chong Wei. If that is to happen, perhaps it could only be by early 2011. But we don't think it would happen if Lin Dan is still here. Why? Because we don't see that Chen Long is a better player than Lin Dan.

    So here we are saying that if Lin Dan remains as the No.1 MS player for CHN, Chen Long would never get a chance to overtake Lee Chong Wei.

    However, if Lin Dan is to allow Chen Long to become CHN's No.1 player, then perhaps Chen Long could topple Lee Chong Wei. But we know that Super Dan is a much better player than Chen Long (for the coming year or two).

    Currently, we cannot find newer stronger Mens Singles players from Denmark, Indonesia, Korea, etc... Yes, perhaps some could appear later, perhaps in 2010 or in 2011. But it won't be likely that they could take away Lee Chong Wei' No.1 position by the time the 2012 Olympic Games Badminton event arrives.
    .
    Lets not underrestimate badminton playing nations like Indonesia, Denmark, South Korea etc by one stroke of a brush, 'cannot find'. These nations have a successful tradition competing and winning the highest honours in badminton i.e OG gold, WC & AE.

    Apr 2009 till OG 2012 is still a long way off. Anything can happen along the way.

    LCW, by participating alone wont be guaranteed that WR1 spot because you need to be raking em' titles in by the bus loads to be WR1. Participation, good looks. sense of humour and all dont count.

    It is not impossible for Chen Long or whoever from China to topple LCW even though he may not be as good as LD. As you have said, LD will only be participating in certain selected tournaments.

    LCW is 27 years old and if you look at our Malaysian shuttlers track record, most of them will slide downhill once they hit their late 20s.

  11. #79
    Moderator drifit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    .
    Yes ... In a way, Tiger Woods is like Lin Dan.

    Knowing that they are excellent in their sports, the World Rankings do not matter much for them.
    .
    i dont mind not having big titles in hand.

    but, as world number one from 2008-2012, that is 48 months or 208 weeks or 1,460 days. i want it...... will it be a record?

  12. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by drifit View Post
    i dont mind not having big titles in hand.

    but, as world number one from 2008-2012, that is 48 months or 208 weeks or 1,460 days. i want it...... will it be a record?
    Especially if the sponsors got pay incentive for maintaining WR#1 for XXX months/yrs.
    Maybe our chris@ccc struck a wager with his buddies on this? That's why he started the thread?

  13. #81
    Moderator drifit's Avatar
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    by maintaining my world number 1, in 2010, i will be conferred "Tan Sri". by 2011, i will be 'Datuk Seri'. as i retired in 2012 with world number 1, i will be "Tun". when i am retired, what or why care about winning? big titles? AE champion? WC champion? Tun drifit.... no regret

  14. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by drifit View Post
    by maintaining my world number 1, in 2010, i will be conferred "Tan Sri". by 2011, i will be 'Datuk Seri'. as i retired in 2012 with world number 1, i will be "Tun". when i am retired, what or why care about winning? big titles? AE champion? WC champion? Tun drifit.... no regret
    Are you trying to mock the ability to maintain a WR1? Why don't you do it when LD was WR1? How long was LD WR1?Are you suggesting LD's WR1 was laughable? I find this post embarrassing.Maybe it's a mod's privilege.

  15. #83
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    Whether DLCW able or not able to maintain his WR1, he is still not the best badminton player in the world.....

  16. #84
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dato Asbullah View Post
    Whether DLCW able or not able to maintain his WR1, he is still not the best badminton player in the world.....
    yep, maybe that's just your opinion.
    However, others opinion might differ from yours of course

  17. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by george@chongwei View Post
    yep, maybe that's just your opinion.
    However, others opinion might differ from yours of course
    If you poll BCers, majority would concur with Dato Asbullah and Dato LCW would admit LD is a better player. If you look at ex-CHN baddy players, whether by sheer winning achievements or length of time being the top gun in the game (i.e. the one to beat, now that is called pressure), LD could the best of them all, even top ZJH (I am bias because to me ZJH is the best player I ever seen play this game). Therefore, LCW being 2nd to LD is not a bad compliment, if LD is not playing in the same era as LCW, LCW could win a fair share of titles and LCW/TH could rule supreme during this era.
    With LD pick-choose when to play, it is quite possible for LCW to be WR1 for a while but I ain’t optimistic till OG12 because 3.5 yrs is a lifetime in badminton and a lot can still happens, even cows could fly by then Also, CJ and CL (and other young guns) could catch up because they will play a lot till OG12 (LYB will want 3 players in OG), they are young, will improve and win their fair share.
    The longer LCW keeps WR1, the bonus he collects RM180K a year plus winnings, lifetime pension (OG08 silver), endorsements, etc., that is big time business, of course the Dato or even Tan Sri titles are icing on the cake. LCW is the most successful MAS baddy player of all time in terms of $$$ earnings, only LD and maybe TH can pass him or some KOR players can match him. That is good for LCW and good for MAS baddy, it provides incentive for others to know that playing baddy (only if you are very good) is rewarding and has a future, otherwise potential players may choose to be book worms than to play baddy. But if players are no bloody good, they better be good at frying chow-kwai-teoh as a second career
    LD has won more titles than anyone in history, one or more SS makes no difference to his legacy whereas one more OG12 gold, one or two AGs, more AEs and more WCs would surely makes him a legend over legends, a mark I can’t see anyone breaking in my lifetime. With LD reportedly making US4M last year, winning a SS is a measly US$20K and he only gets to keep half of that, why even bother risking injury, tired and over-exposure with so much hard work and the winnings can barely buy 2 Luis Vetton handbags for XXF unless we are talking about Chi-Cheung-Kai (Petaling Street) knock-offs
    I can see LD training hard and play just enough to maintain top 2 placing in CHN team and gets to qualify for the majors, and when he does play, remains fresh and beat out whoever is the WR1 and make a mockery of the ranking system.
    Of the 4 majors, the #1 target is one more OG12 gold and LD retires. I am just talking out loud, I guess LD is kicking himself for losing in OG04, because had he won OG04 gold, that could be 3 OG golds…guarantee for sure, a mark no one will, can or think of matching.
    Last edited by OneToughBirdie; 04-09-2009 at 11:04 AM.

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