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  1. #154
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    Arrow How in the world is Chen Long getting closer and closer to LCW??

    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    .
    We are now seeing CL making his way closer and closer to LCW.
    Beside the pocket dictionary, you may need to invest in a calculator as well.
    CL making his way closer and closer to LCW???
    Ok, what is CL's ranking now?
    Take that and minus LCW's current ranking?
    Now if that is considered as getting closer and closer to LCW, you may as well say David Snider at #92 is also inching closer and closer to LCW at #1.

    Anyway, I wont be surprise to see certain members who are 'thick' and will jump onto the bandwagon agreeing with your theory that CL is indeed getting closer and closer to LCW.

  2. #155
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    My understanding of the question: "Will LCW remain World No.1 until the 2012 London OG?" must necessarily involve BWF's World Ranking points system which currently accorded LCW as WR1.

    So we need to know how BWF calculates WR points for participation and at each stage of advancement to the final for all BWF sanctioned events, which I understand, carry different weightage according to their prize money, eg SS versus GP Gold versus GP versus International Challenge, etc.

    So if a player manages to participate in more events, especially those that carry higher ranking points, and advance closer to the final, he will have more opportunities to score more WR points.

    Since LCW is now WR1, it means he has scored the most number of official WR points thus far. Probably Lin Dan is WR2 (I haven't checked the latest WR positions) and although he has beaten LCW more times in SS and other recognized events, LD is not WR1 because he has not participated in more events as LCW had done.

    But how many points is LD behind LCW now and what must he do to overtake LCW? Does LD have to wait till 2012 to do this or he could do it this year or next or year after next?

    What about the current WR3 to WR10 for example, especially players like CJ, BCL,TH and PG, can they overtake both LD and LCW? How many WR points are they behind? Maybe they can do it if they participate in more events and win many of them. Do we have any such calibre player in sight to do this? Or will their respective country associations allow them to go?

    If not, what can stop both LD and LCW from participating in BWF sanctioned events?

    Now we have cases of highly World Ranked players who were simply immobilised for many months through injury such as Achillies tendon, from which PG, WCW and even Ronald Susilo suffered. Even food poisoning can prevent a player from making a quick return and winning his next event.

    So I'm not sure LCW can remain WR1 until the next London Olympics. It is just too far away. It will be more realistic to guage their position year by year.

    Maybe someone can make a detailed comparison or simulation, say in the form of a chart, of the top ten WR players and show their difference in points and how they can overtake the leaders by either doing well, say reaching the QF, SF, F and winning events.
    Last edited by Loh; 04-12-2009 at 10:52 AM.

  3. #156
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Participate more often to gain ranking points

    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post

    Maybe someone can make a detailed comparison or simulation, say in the form of a chart, of the top ten WR players and show their difference in points and how they can overtake the leaders by either doing well, say reaching the QF, SF, F and winning events.

    .
    Loh ... Talking about ranking points and participation rates, your position in our BC PAW (World ) Ranking has gone down quite a bit since you last won the 2007 Macau Open tournament. You will need to return to participate more often, before your ranking position slides down even further.

    Talking about 'a detailed comparison or simulation in the form of a chart of the top WR players and show their difference in points and how they can overtake the leaders', perhaps our Sandy and some of our PAWers are capable of doing it. Let's try it out for our BC PAW Games first. After it works, we can apply it for the BWF Ranking usage.


    .

  4. #157
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    mmm i think LCW can retain the title if he participate in many tournaments and make at least the QF in all the tournaments

  5. #158
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    Chris@ccc, just to clarify,1) if the player participated last yr and reached finals & did not participate in the same tourney this year, does he lose the exact points he gained last yr ? Assuming the tourney is his best 10.
    2) How do they distribute the points for team events??

    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post

    Since LCW is now WR1, it means he has scored the most number of official WR points thus far. Probably Lin Dan is WR2 (I haven't checked the latest WR positions) ...........

    But how many points is LD behind LCW now and what must he do to overtake LCW? Does LD have to wait till 2012 to do this or he could do it this year or next or year after next?

    What about the current WR3 to WR10 for example, especially players like CJ, BCL,TH and PG, can they overtake both LD and LCW? How many WR points are they behind? Maybe they can do it if they participate in more events and win many of them. Do we have any such calibre player in sight to do this? Or will their respective country associations allow them to go?
    Yes Uncle Loh, LD is WR#2 for now :
    http://internationalbadminton.org/ranking.asp
    1) LCW = 84179
    2) LD = 66940
    3) CJ = 65804 (back injury)
    4) PG = 64683 (maybe will retire in 2010)
    5) Sony K= 60927 (back injury)
    6) Taufik = 58943 (unpredictable ?)

    In the earlier pages, someone already mentioned that it looks unlikely LCW will be toppled in 2009 as LD will have to win almost all the titles for remainder of the year.
    For 2010,maybe LD will take back the WR#1, if he participates more & Team CHina's strategy remains the same. Since he doesnt look like partitipcating much this year, he will gain full points in 2010. LCW needs to consistently Semi finals.
    For 2011, since it's OG qualifcation points will start, I think LCW will lose the spot. At this present moment, the likely candidate to overtake is of course LD.
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 04-12-2009 at 10:08 PM.

  6. #159
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    .
    Loh ... Talking about ranking points and participation rates, your position in our BC PAW (World ) Ranking has gone down quite a bit since you last won the 2007 Macau Open tournament. You will need to return to participate more often, before your ranking position slides down even further.

    Talking about 'a detailed comparison or simulation in the form of a chart of the top WR players and show their difference in points and how they can overtake the leaders', perhaps our Sandy and some of our PAWers are capable of doing it. Let's try it out for our BC PAW Games first. After it works, we can apply it for the BWF Ranking usage.


    .
    Unlike LCW, I have given up trying for the top spots! There are far too many capable, young and experienced players in the PAW game. Maybe you can do much better. Good Luck!

    However PAW rankings and how it is devised and computed is different from BWF world rankings, I believe. So we can't really marry the two, can we?

    As our Lady Eagle has pointed out, LCW's WR1 may not continue till 2012, if LD especially should intensify his attempts, particularly during the Olympic year.

    And as I have said, injury and non-appearance as a result of not being sent by the respective associations or sponsors or simply due to retirement, will certainly affect one's world ranking adversely. The longer it takes to make a comeback, the worse will be one's ranking.

    Probably a more realistic question would be:

    "Will LCW remain World No.1 until 2010?"

    in view of so many uncertainties.

    But LCW has a good reason to maintain a very high world ranking as his financial incentives are partly tied to this.
    Last edited by Loh; 04-12-2009 at 11:13 PM.

  7. #160
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow robin7 asked Sandy the same question

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post

    chris@ccc,
    just to clarify, if the player participated last yr and reached finals & did not participate in the same tourney this year, does he lose the exact points he gained last year? Assuming the tourney is his best 10.

    .
    eaglehelang,

    For each tournament, our BC PAW Ranking Points are derived using the BWF World Ranking Points. Our BC PAW Ranking System closely mirrors the BWF World Ranking System. Therefore for our To-date BC PAW World Ranking, we drop or gain points according to the BWF rules.

    In this thread (click here), robin7 asked Sandy the same question. You will find the discussions in the first 10 posts.

    That's why in replying to Loh 's post (Post #156), about a detailed comparison or simulation in the form of a chart of the top WR players and show their difference in points and how they can overtake the leaders, I suggested that perhaps our Sandy and some of our PAWers are capable of doing it. We can try it out for our BC PAW Games first. After it works, we can then apply it for the BWF World Ranking usage.


    .

  8. #161
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Our PAW Rankings and how it is derived and computed is exactly the same as BWF's

    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post

    Unlike LCW, I have given up trying for the top spots! There are far too many capable, young and experienced players in the PAW game. Maybe you can do much better. Good Luck!

    However PAW rankings and how it is devised and computed is different from BWF world rankings, I believe. So we can't really marry the two, can we?

    .
    Referring to Sandy 's thread again. Our BC PAW Ranking Points are exactly the same as the BWF Ranking Points. And our PAW Rankings and how it is derived and computed is exactly the same as the BWF World Rankings.

    Source: click here
    .

  9. #162
    Regular Member robin7's Avatar
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    As of 9 April 2009, LCW's world ranking points is 84179.

    Top 10 performance in 52 weeks
    3/15/2009 WILSON Swiss Open Super Series 2009 S.Series 9200 Winner
    3/8/2009 YONEX All England Super Series 2009 S.Series 7800 Runner-Up
    1/18/2009 Korea Super Series 2009 S.Series 7800 Runner-Up
    1/11/2009 Malaysia Super Series 2009 S.Series 9200 Winner
    11/23/2008 LI NING China Open Super Series 2008 S.Series 7800 Runner-Up
    11/2/2008 French Super Series 2008 S.Series 6420 Semi-Finalist
    9/21/2008 YONEX Open Japan Super Series 2008 S.Series 7800 Runner-Up
    8/17/2008 Olympic Games 2008 BWF Events 10200 Runner-Up
    6/15/2008 Singapore Super Series 2008 S.Series 9200 Winner
    5/18/2008 Thomas & Uber Cup Finals 2008 BWF Events 8759

    In order to stay on top, LCW basically needs about 80000 ranking points by winning some titles plus some finals and semi-finals appearances on the best 10 tournaments he enters.

    Scenario A: 8 SS finals + WC finals + TC/SC semi-finals
    Super Series: 8 X 7800 = 62400
    BWF events (WC): 10200
    BWF events (TC/SC): 8400
    Total WR pts: 81000

    Scenario B: 2 SS titles + 4 SS finals + 2 SS semi-finals + WC finals + TC/SC semi-finals
    Super Series: (2 X 9200) + (4 X 7800) + (2 X 6420) = 62440
    BWF events (WC): 10200
    BWF events (TC/SC): 8400
    Total WR pts: 81040

    Scenario C: 2 SS titles + 3 SS finals + 1 SS semi-finals + 2 GP Gold titles + WC finals + TC/SC semi-finals
    Super Series: (2 X 9200) + (3 X 7800) + (1 X 6420) = 48220
    GP Gold: 2 X 7000 = 14000
    BWF events (WC): 10200
    BWF events (TC/SC): 8400
    Total WR pts: 80820

    Note:
    1. 2 SS finals (7800) are as good as 1 SS titles (9200) plus 1 SS semi-finals (6420). 15600 vs 15620
    2. 2 GP Gold titles (7000) are as good as 1 SS finals (7800) plus 1 SS semi-finals (6420). 14000 vs 14220

    I think LCW can mantain the top spot in 2009/2010 but it would be tougher in 2011/2012.

    External factors:
    1. Current top 10 players
    I predict that LD's performance will drop more drastically than LCW in the next few years. Despite his younger age, LD seems older physically and fitness wise. Since LD has won almost all the majors (except AG), the only motivation that keeps him going is probably the AG. Yes, we are talking about world number one.
    PG & TH will no longer be a threat to LCW in the next few years.
    BCL, CJ & SDK are more injury-proned than LCW.
    2. Future top 10 players
    Youngsters such as HJH, KT, JOJ & CL could break into top 10 and probably win some titles by 2012 but are still far away from dislodging LCW.

    In conclusion, as long as LCW can keep himself healthy and competitive, he's likely to stay at the top till 2012.

  10. #163
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@ccc View Post
    .
    Referring to Sandy 's thread again. Our BC PAW Ranking Points are exactly the same as the BWF Ranking Points. And our PAW Rankings and how it is derived and computed is exactly the same as the BWF World Rankings.

    Source: click here
    .
    Oh, so PAW Ranking Points is based entirely on BWF Ranking Points. If that's the case shan't we refer just to the official one instead of confusing ourselves?

  11. #164
    Regular Member robin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sekut View Post
    mmm i think LCW can retain the title if he participate in many tournaments and make at least the QF in all the tournaments
    Only best 10 tournaments will be considered. QF is not good enough. Refer to post #163 for further details.

  12. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post

    But LCW has a good reason to maintain a very high world ranking as his financial incentives are partly tied to this.
    Ain't that the fact...playing pro baddy is a job and a business as I said so often....there is no one to take care of the player's retirement and DLCW is the lucky one, with fame, million $$$, Datoship, Miss Wong, lifetime pension, endorsement, etc but for one Dato, there are many players that need a second job after playing career is over...therefore maintain WR1 as long as possible (RM180/yr) and win as many titles as possible, the end of the career is nearing but do remember to send a thank-you card to LD for being absent...come to think of it, could be a conspiracy, this LD chap must be getting a commision or kick-back for not playing so Dato can rack up WR points

  13. #166
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    I just hope there will be a challenge for the WR1 spot before long, otherwise it will be a dull MS world scenario if LCW continues to dominate, just as it is uninteresting to watch the China Wall being so difficult to penetrate by other badminton powerhouses.

    In the end LCW may lose his motivation to do better just as LD is currently giving the impression that he is not interested in participating in so many SS events. And both may suffer the consequences when London Olympics beckons.

  14. #167
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    Ain't that the fact...playing pro baddy is a job and a business as I said so often....there is no one to take care of the player's retirement and DLCW is the lucky one, with fame, million $$$, Datoship, Miss Wong, lifetime pension, endorsement, etc but for one Dato, there are many players that need a second job after playing career is over...therefore maintain WR1 as long as possible (RM180/yr) and win as many titles as possible, the end of the career is nearing but do remember to send a thank-you card to LD for being absent...come to think of it, could be a conspiracy, this LD chap must be getting a commision or kick-back for not playing so Dato can rack up WR points

    Ain't they good friends?

    But LD has on record earned more than LCW so there is no need for him to conspire. Maybe they can do a show together to share the takings equally?

  15. #168
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    I am really convinced there is a setup like this...LD and DLCW ROFLOL discussing BCers arguing over them in the BC forum...LD telling DLCW, hey we are buddies but those BCers thought we are enemies, those dumb BCers...look I play less SS so you better win as much as possible and rack up WR#1 points, get your dough quick, GF, $$$, etc...me not playing would help you go to finals or win but I can't control my comrades, those young pubs don't listen to me, they are hungry and out to kissing and proving to LYB so better watch out for them but don't take too long to win your first SS away from MAS...one thing you promise me to leave the major titles for me so I can be legend above legends....and we retire happily and weathly

  16. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    it will be a dull MS world scenario if LCW continues to dominate
    This is very subjective, Uncle Loh.
    I'd love to see him on the top, more than just being a current WR1. But a WR1 that would be remembered.

  17. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    Ain't they good friends?

    But LD has on record earned more than LCW so there is no need for him to conspire. Maybe they can do a show together to share the takings equally?
    Yeah....but show respect and appreciation....like in the old days, the king of other provinces has to bestow gifts, $$$, etc to the emperor (who is rich already) but respect lah

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