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  1. #4506
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    The T1 I have is .5-.8g heavier but 1-2mm more headlight than my TPro spec wise.

    The TPro swings faster than the T1 for sure, even though my T1 is unstrung. So it is not the T1 for sure.

  2. #4507
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by singnflip4life View Post
    LOL "Table willed to Fidget"

    Does that include the rackets on it?
    LOL! Love the "will".

    Happy the rackets got there so quick too.

  3. #4508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fidget View Post
    Indeed, Pat! Thanks, I'll take the rackets, you keep the table!

    Please do review the rackets. Dimcorner's review is excellent, but we need more. So far the consensus is this T-Pro is an improvement over the T2 --in part because it's stiffer. Sounds like the T1 if you ask me! Await ormy4 and other reviews!

    Lol, think you will find out for yourself very shortly.

  4. #4509
    Regular Member what07's Avatar
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    Nice Tpros

    Question for panda, howcome there's only serial numbers on the Precision rackets only and not the Upro and Tpro? Just curious.

  5. #4510
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    Quote Originally Posted by what07 View Post
    Nice Tpros

    Question for panda, howcome there's only serial numbers on the Precision rackets only and not the Upro and Tpro? Just curious.
    I believe the answer lies with the manufacturer used

  6. #4511
    Regular Member dagayaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot View Post
    Replacing the original grip varies because of the replacement grips thickness and weight.
    The lightest replacement grip taped at the bottom of the cone/cap is ~7g, heaviest normal flat grip: ~12g, heaviest with a raised ridge ~15g, so a 6g to 8g difference in grip weight alone can be achieved.
    Thanks for the info Dink! There is a towel over(!)grip that weights 17g and shifts BP of AT900P from 316 to 280, so it would be rather used as a replacement grip. How much does the original TPro grip weight approximately? Need to know what to expect if replace original with towel.

  7. #4512
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dagayaru View Post
    Thanks for the info Dink! There is a towel over(!)grip that weights 17g and shifts BP of AT900P from 316 to 280, so it would be rather used as a replacement grip. How much does the original TPro grip weight approximately? Need to know what to expect if replace original with towel.

    The original grips on all Panda Power Rackets = ~7-9g.

    Panda did not mention towel grips because Panda doesn't use them and there's far too much disparity.

    For instance, Panda has seen a towel grip weigh almost 30g! How?

    1) The racket was gripped loosely with a very big butt

    2) Gripped nearly half way up the shaft

    3) Was used a lot so a bunch of sweat set in and dried with the grip powder.
    Last edited by DinkAlot; 02-15-2011 at 08:24 AM.

  8. #4513
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    I might be soundling like a broken record with this, but I still fail to see how adding overgrips etc will significantly alter the playing characteristic of the racquet. sure, you changed the bp, but thats just a pseudo technical stat. you havent changed the moment of inertia, and thats the physical property that will affect how the swing feels.

  9. #4514
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Changing the BP by a few millimeters is not a big deal but changing it by 5 to 10mm or more can.

    Also, by changing the BP, usually the weight is going to go up or down, one way or the other. Not a big deal if you are swapping grips, but if adding on, can be significant.

    Not just the BP and weight of the racket, the grip size is affected too. Panda is not comfortable playing with anything bigger than G4 anymore whereas in the past he could not play with anything smaller than a G2.

    Finally, this is a good example of why raw numbers don't always work. You need to factor the human side into it. That's why there are so many rackets, racket styles, colors preferences to go along with players and their play style.

    If grips don't affect you, that's great, one less variable.



    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    I might be soundling like a broken record with this, but I still fail to see how adding overgrips etc will significantly alter the playing characteristic of the racquet. sure, you changed the bp, but thats just a pseudo technical stat. you havent changed the moment of inertia, and thats the physical property that will affect how the swing feels.

  10. #4515
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    I might be soundling like a broken record with this, but I still fail to see how adding overgrips etc will significantly alter the playing characteristic of the racquet. sure, you changed the bp, but thats just a pseudo technical stat. you havent changed the moment of inertia, and thats the physical property that will affect how the swing feels.
    I have to say I agree. The only thing additional grips should affect are the grip size & the overall weight of the racket. The moment of the racket (the effective force gravity effects on the racket when horizontal) is unchanged, even though when you balance the racket on your finger along the shaft may change significantly.

    This is why lead tape IS effective at changing the BPT as when you hold the grip the moment is changed.

  11. #4516
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    I have to say I agree. The only thing additional grips should affect are the grip size & the overall weight of the racket. The moment of the racket (the effective force gravity effects on the racket when horizontal) is unchanged, even though when you balance the racket on your finger along the shaft may change significantly.

    This is why lead tape IS effective at changing the BPT as when you hold the grip the moment is changed.
    Well it's really not very much, but lowering the BP by adding weight to the base DOES change the characteristics. The BP of the racket goes down, and more of the mass is in your hand, where it creates no momentum. As the weight of the racket is not much for the bigger muscles (upper arm, torso, shoulder), it will not feel significantly heavier, but as the BP has changed, the created momentum when you swing the racket has changed as well. I'm way too lazy to actually calculate an example, but adding weight to the base WILL change the characteristics.
    Although most of those changes are minor.
    [M = F x s with M=Momentum, s the length of the lever and F the created force. Changing the BP will also change s, and while F will be influenced (being the force created by the inertia of the racket), it will have a lesser effect than the change of s. This is only the simplified equation used for constant forces, but as I said, I'm too lazy and tired to go into detail. Also, I have ~2 weeks left until my mechanics exam where this is gonna be a subject, meaning I haven't studied for it yet ]

  12. #4517
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    As with all things in life, the answer lies somewhere in between.

    A y change in handle weight may not be as significant as a y change in racket head weight, but it can still change the way it swings, because the handle and hand is not the fulcrum in the swing. Instead the fulcrum lies somewhere behind the shoulder and body.

  13. #4518
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    As with all things in life, the answer lies somewhere in between.

    A y change in handle weight may not be as significant as a y change in racket head weight, but it can still change the way it swings, because the handle and hand is not the fulcrum in the swing. Instead the fulcrum lies somewhere behind the shoulder and body.
    While you're partially right, there is a mistake in your statement: the fulcrum would be in the middle of your chest if you swung the racket with a fully stretched arm and no wrist movement at all. The most noticeably influenced movements are wrist movement and pronation though, where the fulcrum is your wrist and the middle of your hand respectively.
    Thanks for agreeing - adding weight at the handle WILL change the swing characteristics of a racket, as it changes the weight, its distribution and thus the BP. All 3 influence the intertia of the racket which creates the momentum you notice when starting or ending a swing. Also influenced is the impulse of the racket (=>smash power, which is why hard hitters tend to prefer high BPs).

    But seriously, you dont wanna open that can of worms if you're not very interesting in physics/engineering as its getting more and more complicated the more realistic and accurate you wanna calculate those things. Just take it for granted that adding weight at the bottom and top will both change racket characteristics

  14. #4519
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    A y change in handle weight may not be as significant as a y change in racket head weight, but it can still change the way it swings

    too bad I cannot really help with this physics lesson
    but I think visor has the best answer (by using logic)

  15. #4520
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    Whilst the centre of the swing maybe extended to your shoulder/chest or whatever the biggest impartation of power is created by the pronation or supination of the wrist, of which the addition of extra weight in the handle has minimum/nil effect.

    Yes the Balance point is clearly affected by adding grips, as you measured balance point from somewhere in the shaft, but the effective balance from Hand to head is minimally affected.

    It is complicated & there are more things to consider than a simple measurement, but people should remember that by changing a dry weight racket of 290mm to 280mm by adding weight to the handle won't make the racket play like a dry weight 280mm BPT racket.

  16. #4521
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    Whilst the centre of the swing maybe extended to your shoulder/chest or whatever the biggest impartation of power is created by the pronation or supination of the wrist, of which the addition of extra weight in the handle has minimum/nil effect.

    Yes the Balance point is clearly affected by adding grips, as you measured balance point from somewhere in the shaft, but the effective balance from Hand to head is minimally affected.

    It is complicated & there are more things to consider than a simple measurement, but people should remember that by changing a dry weight racket of 290mm to 280mm by adding weight to the handle won't make the racket play like a dry weight 280mm BPT racket.
    Well it won't be the same thing, but close (if the overall weight is the same). Try it if you can - perhaps Dink can offer some insight on how he feels adding grip weight will influence the swinging characteristics of the racket....BP and weight are only rough estimates anyway, there are always differences in rackets (distribution of weight, stiffness etc.) which will also influence the characteristics and no two rackets are ever exactly the same. I'm still thinking a modded and a 'normal' racket with the same specs will swing very similarly with just minor differences, but to each his own - perhaps I can try proving one of these theories while I'm studying next week

  17. #4522
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    Assumption: BP change changes swing feel.
    Corollary: rings change swing feel.
    Everyone that accepts that grips change racket swing MUST accept that the same effect can be acheived by wearing a ring or two on your racket hand, since you're adding the same weight to the same position in your lever.

    Now, I will be very suspicious if anyone ever claims that switching their wedding band to the other hand was just the trick to make the racket more head light.
    Last edited by amleto; 02-15-2011 at 01:51 PM.

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