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  1. #5067
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot View Post
    You removed the lead tape, that's the reason why the BP is now off. The lead tape was put on the handle by the manufacturer to get to the desired BP and weight. There have been many discussions about this, many/most racket manufacturers add lead tape to achieve the desired specs. This is not out of the ordinary.

    If you want to get it back to the original BP~296, Panda's suggestion is, after the string breaks or if you just want to cut it, remove the string:

    1) unstrung, with your desired grip set-up, place lead tape on the handle, where the manufacturer originally placed it.

    2) to get it right, do not stick it, just place it on top of the handle to achieve your ideal BP.

    3) once your BP is achieved, now remove your grip and stick the lead tape on the handle; now put back your grip.

    Now you have your desired BP.
    *furiously scribbling notes*

  2. #5068
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    One does wonder why you would go to the effort to buy a racquet at a specific weight and balance point and then play around with said characteristics in the process of regripping because you either don't know what you're doing or just for the hell of it...

  3. #5069
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    so my point stands - it is apparently normal operating procedure' to spec up with lead tape included - this is no different to adding grips before speccing up.

    it pretty much renders the whole process of measuring and balancing pointless.
    Last edited by amleto; 05-26-2011 at 05:24 AM.

  4. #5070
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    so my point stands - it is apparently normal operating procedure' to spec up with lead tape included - this is no different to adding grips before speccing up.

    it pretty much renders the whole process of measuring and balancing pointless.
    If you are in the category that thinks it makes no difference ... Apparently you noticed a difference, unless you removed it straight away, so is it pointless?

  5. #5071
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Sir, there is a difference. It is achieving the desired specifications for both weight and BP.

    The TPros produced in your batch, the desired weight and BP range was: 85 - 88g, BP295-305.

    By removing the lead tape off the handle, the racket is now around 80g, BP315. Neither are in the desired range.


    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    so my point stands - it is apparently normal operating procedure' to spec up with lead tape included - this is no different to adding grips before speccing up.

    it pretty much renders the whole process of measuring and balancing pointless.

  6. #5072
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot View Post
    Sir, there is a difference. It is achieving the desired specifications for both weight and BP.

    The TPros produced in your batch, the desired weight and BP range was: 85 - 88g, BP295-305.

    By removing the lead tape off the handle, the racket is now around 80g, BP315. Neither are in the desired range.

    That's my point - it should be an off-spec racket, but it is bundled in with rackets that are on-spec without the need for any lead tape.

  7. #5073
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    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post
    If you are in the category that thinks it makes no difference ... Apparently you noticed a difference, unless you removed it straight away, so is it pointless?

    I removed it straight away. I thought it was a ~296mm racket (thats what label says), but compared to rackets like-for-like, it is not a 296mm.

  8. #5074
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    That's my point - it should be an off-spec racket, but it is bundled in with rackets that are on-spec without the need for any lead tape.
    Sir, your racket is not off-spec. I have already stated it in Post # 5064 but I will repeat again, as clearly as I can:

    1) The racket is not off-spec because it came from the factory like that. Nothing was altered after it left the factory.

    2) The factory used lead tape on the handle to get the desired weight and BP. It is common practice and again not off-spec.

    3) If you did not remove the original grip and lead tape, the racket would be the stated weight and BP on the label (+/-0.2g, +/-1mm).

    4) Just about all the rackets in your batch (that I have seen) have lead tape on the handle to achieve the correct BP and weight. Based on the requirements ~85-88g, BP295-305; this is what they had to do to achieve them.

    Your racket is typical, it is not a mistake.

    So do not worry.

  9. #5075
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    I removed it straight away. I thought it was a ~296mm racket (thats what label says), but compared to rackets like-for-like, it is not a 296mm.
    That's the problem, you were not supposed to remove the lead tape (big factor) and original grip (small factor). If you would have weighed and checked the balance of your racket, unstrung, with the plastic wrapper removed only: it would be the stated weight and BP on the sticker.

    By removing the lead tape from the handle dropped the weight of the racket about 3-5g and increased the BP significantly. Now the racket is overall lighter by 3-5g but much more head heavy, maybe 8-10+mm

  10. #5076
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    This just means that the industry's weighing and balancing is pointless - it is meant to provide a means to rackets - but you cant compare them as rackets with same spec but different amounts of lead tape wont play the same.

  11. #5077
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    I removed it straight away. I thought it was a ~296mm racket (thats what label says), but compared to rackets like-for-like, it is not a 296mm.
    Because you already removed the leadtape? Unless you also did for the one you were comparing it to.

  12. #5078
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    No one said it's a perfect world. This is why Yonex is "smart" using the "U" weight system and general terms such as balanced, head heavy, head light. They know making rackets near identical is extremely difficult to achieve. Being off by a few grams in weight and a few millimeters in BP happens quite easily during the production process of a racket. Remember, a gram is about the weight of a paper clip, very light.

    For Panda Power rackets, we just try to quantify these general numbers, minimize the variables, as close as possible. But again, it's not perfect.

    But we do the best we can. For instance, Panda worked from 3pm to 1:30am, came home and started answering your posts. It's 4:44am and Panda is still up replying. Don't think too many racket makers will do that for the customer.


    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    This just means that the industry's weighing and balancing is pointless - it is meant to provide a means to rackets - but you cant compare them as rackets with same spec but different amounts of lead tape wont play the same.

  13. #5079
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkAlot View Post
    No one said it's a perfect world. This is why Yonex is "smart" using the "U" weight system and general terms such as balanced, head heavy, head light. They know making rackets near identical is extremely difficult to achieve. Being off by a few grams in weight and a few millimeters in BP happens quite easily during the production process of a racket. Remember, a gram is about the weight of a paper clip, very light.

    For Panda Power rackets, we just try to quantify these general numbers, minimize the variables, as close as possible. But again, it's not perfect.

    But we do the best we can. For instance, Panda worked from 3pm to 1:30am, came home and started answering your posts. It's 4:44am and Panda is still up replying. Don't think too many racket makers will do that for the customer.
    That's one of the reasons I buy PP - you won't get service better than this
    amleto: Stop complaining. All companies use lead tape, I've had lead tape on other rackets before. On no Panda racket so far, btw. Adding lead tape on the handle DOES change characteristics of the racket, but if you KNOW it's there, and think it will play differently than one without, you'll always feel that way. It's called placebo. Anyone who knows a bit about engineering will tell you the shift in BP and weight caused by the lead tape will have an influence.

  14. #5080
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    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post
    Because you already removed the leadtape? Unless you also did for the one you were comparing it to.
    you missed the point - compare a 296mm racket with lead tape to one without. It's not a like-for-like comparison.

  15. #5081
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4ckie View Post
    Anyone who knows a bit about engineering will tell you the shift in BP and weight caused by the lead tape will have an influence.
    Anyone who knows a bit about inertia will tell you adding weight near a pivot/fulcrum wont change much in terms of rotational momentum. Let's not go down this discussion again.

  16. #5082
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    you missed the point - compare a 296mm racket with lead tape to one without. It's not a like-for-like comparison.
    Based on what experience? (purely theoretical?) Do you strip out the leadtape for all your rackets? I haven't even thought of doing it before . Just tried to check for one in a Yonex handle but there is a white plastic cap blocking the opening ...
    Next victim: Forza, no leadtape to be found

    Given the wide range of bp and weight these Panda's come in, might the leadtape be the same each time?? (as illogical as that may sound)

    In terms of rotational momentum I would agree but for purely the feel of the racket it can still make a difference
    Last edited by demolidor; 05-26-2011 at 07:20 AM.

  17. #5083
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    I appreciate dan's efforts and CS is definitely second to none. I am discussing a practice that is industry-wide but makes a mockery of 'comparison by numbers'

    Dan - if the (your) manufacturers weren't allowed to add lead tape, would this impact sales due to 'bad' specs?

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