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  1. #5118
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    Quote Originally Posted by milford30 View Post
    The weight and balance of the racket from the fulcrum to the head would have a major effect on the flex, keeping in mind the difference in flex of a Tpro(playable by most players) and the Ultra(need a very strong arm/wrist to use effectively) is only 1 'flex' unit, so i would say we can't assume 0.3 'flex' unit is rather insignificant, though it would require the equations of how they calculated this flex to determine with more confidence how much this effect has, for all we know this may not be a linear scale... measurements that calculate how much force it takes to bend the racket x mm, beam bending theories are generally non-linear...

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...p/t-57979.html
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...p/t-64353.html

    if the replies are true, SOTX scale is use for pp, which means 20kg at the t joint?
    Not sure if you're directing this comment at me, but yes that is obvious - that weight affects amount of flex. The SOTX scale (used by dcbadminton) is measured by degrees of flex when a 20kg weight is placed on the t-joint, with supports at the handle and the top of the head. Ashaway's scale uses the same method measuring only the flexibility of the shaft and not of the whole racket, as the head of a racket is often made of a different material to the shaft. A better measurement would be to have separate readings for the head and the shaft using a scale based on a function of young's modulus.

    But back to your point, you can't compare two different rackets just because they are "almost" of the same flex scale and say [some arbitrary measurement of flex] is significant just because the rackets play completely differently. You said it yourself that weight distribution affects how much the racket would flex during play. A head heavy racket of the same SOTX flex measurement would flex more than a head light version. Furthermore, it doesn't even matter if it is significant, the whole point is that flex can simply be controlled.

  2. #5119
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    comment was not aimed at you at all. sorry if it came across that way.

    onto the reply:
    I am trying to get at is: What would happen if you asked the manufacturer to NOT adjust with epoxy or lead or ...? Will this be detrimental to cost/profit/number of undesirable rackets?
    no answers?


    ........

    I was thinking maybe panda racquets could do without because dan sells a wide range of weight/bp anyway, so it doesn't matter if there is a spread.

  3. #5120
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    No one answered because your question was blindingly obvious and if you thought about the question yourself before asking it, you would know the answer.

  4. #5121
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    Panda does sell a wide range, but think about this (numbers are not necessarily representative of the truth, just pay attention to the concept)

    Manufacturer spends $5000 to make 100 rackets, meaning each racket costs $50 to make

    However, of those 100 rackets, only 90 make QC, so now thats $5000 for 90 rackets, or $55.56 each

    Of those 90, without adjustment via epoxy or lead tape, only 45 rackets make target range for BP/weight. This is because those that would have been adjusted with lead tape are off by several grams weight, and several mm BP, out of the target range. Now, its $5000 for 45 rackets, or $111.11 each.

    However, if we allow the manufacture to adjust its rackets with lead tape and epoxy, say 80 of the 90 fit the target range. $5000 for 80 rackets is $62.50 each. Compare that to $111.11, its almost a $50 difference per racket. Of course, it may be a drastic example, but in my mind, the concept stays the same. If there is a cheap, efficient way to get more rackets to pass QC, it lowers the cost per racket, and of course, means savings for the customer.

  5. #5122
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    Now if instead, we say forget the lead tape, and then say instead, "the 80 rackets closest to the spec ranges I specify pass QC," the cost is still $62.50.

    But now we leave it up to chance. If 78 out of the 80 are in the target range without the lead tape, great! Someone like kwun or me would love to see what an oddball racket is like, and everyone else can snap up the good ones.

    But if instead, only 2 are in the target range, and 78 play wildly different from what was intended, now you have a poor product that no one will buy, because there is no consistency. If we were to do this, what's the point of doing prototypes, etc. Just throw together a bunch of random parameters, and sell the ones that feel great! (Sounds like what a lot of the copycats do cough Eagnas/apacs/flypower cough).

    The point is that the lead tape is there, to make the racket perform the way you want it to (with a little leeway), as finetuned through all the prototypes, demos, and trials. And if you don't care about how the racket performs, to be honest, you shouldn't be spending money on rackets anyways, because you're either a beginner or you're a pro.

  6. #5123
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    So to fully answer your question, no lead tape/epoxy equals:

    slightly lower overall cost
    more amounts of offspec/undesirable rackets
    increased cost per "on-spec" racket

    which totals up to be bad business practice.

  7. #5124
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    Perhaps I wasn't clear. I was talking specifically about dc badminton, where a wide range of specs are sold for the same product (wide in comparison to most other manufacturers).

    It depends how many rackets are in need of adjusting - something I thought only Dan would know, but perhaps not if he doesnt look under too many grips.

    On the premise that his saleable range of specs is 'wide', are adjustments (lead/epoxy) really giving that much benefit?

  8. #5125
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    I would imagine Dan only looks under the grips of the rackets he owns, not sells. And not all use lead tape, looking for epoxy would require removal of the butt cap and peering deep into the handle, which is highly unlikely since that level of consumer end of customization isn't useful for badminton (unlike tennis).

    But to be honest, this question is not for me nor for Dan. I think its best to ask it of the racket manufacturers. The use of lead tape/epoxy is probably for their convenience, they do not have to be as stringent with the carbon graphite molding and wood density of the handle.

  9. #5126
    Regular Member Sketchy's Avatar
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    Incidentally, I've owned 15 Panda Power rackets - none of which had any lead tape on the handle (I also own a Carlton that does).

  10. #5127
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    wondering if I can get the T-2 in Hong Kong

  11. #5128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sketchy View Post
    Incidentally, I've owned 15 Panda Power rackets - none of which had any lead tape on the handle (I also own a Carlton that does).
    All of my dunlop aerogel 100 tennis rackets have lead tape covered by electrical tape embedded into the foam handle. I can't remember about all my badminton rackets, but I'd imagine it's more likely they'd use epoxy glue or something inside the wood. It would help secure the cone/shaft to the handle anyways.

  12. #5129
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    Pandas use beeswax for weight balancing. It is the green alternative to epoxy. They take a weighted, hardened blob, drop it into the hollow of the handle and then with their laser eye, heat it till it turns to putty-paste, and then flash-freeze it till solidifies in place around the shaft. This adds the necessary weight, as well as enhances the stability of the racquet.

    But what is really important is that it also doubles up as a secret stash of emergency rations. Recently, I came upon this secret in my trusty T2 when I was lost in the desert and despairing (and going stark raving mad, which effect still lingers as you may see) and it saved me from extinction. My T2 plays even faster after that.

  13. #5130
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    epoxy balancing would probably be a 2-stage process. First you add the epoxy and let it dry, and then you would drill or shave some off for the appropriate balance.

  14. #5131
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    But with Beeswax you can just eat it without waiting right?

  15. #5132
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    Hi

    I brought two of these rackets recently from Mark and I have to say they are truly the quickest and most amazing all round rackets in this weight bracket on the market. I have tried Z Slash, N90, AT900p, Browning, Carlton etc etc and I have to say the Trinity Pro is better, helped further by Mark's excellent stringing job. However, I have been used to playing with a 75g racket and despite my 20 years experience in the sport my shoulder and elbow struggle with the extra 10g of weight so hence I am selling. As I wrote earlier I brought two of these rackets, I tried one and left the other one wrapped as it came. The one I used I have sold and this one is exactly as it was when I received it, untouched and perfect!

    You will see the specs in the pic below, it has been strung with Kason P75 at 28lbs which I have found to be better than Zymax 67. I want 75 delivered in the UK.
    Name:  May 2011 023serial no.jpg
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    Thanks
    Jag

  16. #5133
    Regular Member Mark A's Avatar
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    Default The new TPros

    Here are the first photos of the forthcoming batch of TPros - should be with Mr. Panda in a week or two. The solid yellow has been replaced with NS8000 mk II style metallic gold/bronze; head is still marbled carbon.

    Preorders being accepted (by me) now - three in already...
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  17. #5134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark A View Post
    Here are the first photos of the forthcoming batch of TPros - should be with Mr. Panda in a week or two. The solid yellow has been replaced with NS8000 mk II style metallic gold/bronze; head is still marbled carbon.

    Preorders being accepted (by me) now - three in already...
    May I trade one of these with one of mine? Very nice color - it'll catch a bit more attention, let's hope it's more durable than the old stuff

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