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  1. #5084
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    In every sports that uses a weapon to perform, athletes modify their weapon for their own personnal requirement, and badminton is no different. All Pro's in every sports get custom fitted to be able to perform at their best, and lead tape is present in golf, tennis and much more.

    Panda Power racquets are the closest to custom fit you can get on the market; it allows you to get what you want without having to do much other alterations, unless you change idea of what you need.

    Every racquet models are designed with a certain mission; power, control, speed, etc. They are also planned within a range of stiffness, BP and overall weight.

    So, you buy the racquet that best fit your playing style, and then you pick the one with the specs that are the closest to your preferred requirements, and then if you are not totally happy, you can adjust.

    What else do you need?????

    The service and help that PP is giving is nothing to compare with any other.....

    Great Panda; you can go in hibernation quietly for a few hours, now.... ;o)

  2. #5085
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    Quote Originally Posted by demolidor View Post
    Based on what experience? (purely theoretical?)
    based on scientific methodology.

  3. #5086
    Regular Member j4ckie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    based on scientific methodology.
    If the movement were just a rotation, and you gripped the racket at the very bottom, that would be right. But I also agree we don't need to go down that road again - everyone feels different about this subject.

  4. #5087
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    I guess you have an opportunity then . Since it doesn't matter what you put on the handle it will still play like a 308mm right? I usually say strings add 10mm bp (just measured an unstrung 293mm now being 303 strung with NBG98, no grip modifications yet) so let's make it 8, makes 304 ... change of grip, reduction of 5? So a reduction of 15mm needed through added weight which is how many grams? Stick some fishing lead in the bottom?

  5. #5088
    Regular Member visor's Avatar
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    amletto:

    Not this again.

    We all know that the hand is not the only fulcrum. The badminton stroke is much more complex than that because the hand, arm, shoulder system does not remain still in space. To this date, there has been no scientific methodology to analyze this swing because it is too complex.

    But as demolidor says, if you can't feel the difference between removing and not removing the grip lead weight, then why bother removing it in the first place?

  6. #5089
    Regular Member Sketchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Not this again.
    Agreed.
    We've already established that this is not something specific to Panda Power rackets, so now if you want to argue about lead tape, could you please go start a new thread for it, or better yet, go post in one of the many existing threads on the subject.

    It's already hard enough finding specific information in this thread, without it being cluttered by pages of stuff that has little or nothing to do with Panda Power rackets.

  7. #5090
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    Well said Sketchy, there is already so much of everything on this thread, it is becoming so big and hard to get back on something specific.

    Maybe Dan should start new thread with specific means???

  8. #5091
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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    But as demolidor says, if you can't feel the difference between removing and not removing the grip lead weight, then why bother removing it in the first place?
    1) make the racquet lighter with no drawbacks
    2) easier gripping.

  9. #5092
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    I get amleto's point. If he wants a head light racket for speed, giving him a 310 mm racket + lead tape won't work. For example, adding 10 grams of lead tape to my at900p won't make it ns9900. It won't have the speed and quick response.

  10. #5093
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    I would like to clarify the fact that the lead tape to modify the racket does not effect it in any way when the after effects of the tape make it have the same specs as one without it.

    I have owned 5 T2's 2 have broken on me and I have sold the other one for cash which i needed. They we all 285mm bp +-1 and 85 grams, some of them had lead tape and some did not. To me they all felt the same when they either had lead tape on or not. I would like to add the only modifications I has were replacing the original grip with towell grip.

    So it seems that all this arguing about lead tape which amleto is arguing about is rubbish, the lead tape makes the batches similar and they all have the same performance at the same spec.

  11. #5094
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amleto View Post
    1) make the racquet lighter with no drawbacks
    2) easier gripping.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iori View Post
    I get amleto's point. If he wants a head light racket for speed, giving him a 310 mm racket + lead tape won't work. For example, adding 10 grams of lead tape to my at900p won't make it ns9900. It won't have the speed and quick response.
    But will it still play as a 310mm bp AT900P which is what the theory here is. Had he not removed the leadtape would it have played as a 296mm Trinity? Removing the leadtape to make it lighter with no drawbacks meaning the piece of leadtape was useless in the first place based on scientific methodology and merely an artificial way to change static bp. How it will make gripping easier though?? (applying it or switching between different grips when playing?)

    But that's leading back down to the eternal debate between theorretical rambling and reality

    Of course you could also use this to explain why for some (based on feel) it swings heavier than it's specs/expectations and for others lighter ... but there are machines for measuring swingweight (for tennis anyway).
    Last edited by demolidor; 05-26-2011 at 02:51 PM.

  12. #5095
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    Adding or removing lead tape at the butt of a racket does not change the flex characteristics of a racket, only how the racket handles and feels. However if you were to add lead tape to the head of the racket, it would change the flex characteristics as more weight away from the fulcrum means a greater moment of inertia and hence more force needed to rotate it - only achievable by an increase elastic power through flex. This is obvious as adding a large weight at the end of your racket would make it flex a lot more (hence why more people prefer head heavy rackets to be stiffer).

    So if you were to argue that the racket handles differently because there is lead weight at the handle from the same racket without lead weight - you'd be right, it's pretty obvious. But if you were to argue that the racket handles differently to those specced the same without lead weight, then the answer isn't quite so clear. The answer then depends on the following things:

    • Whether the weight of the racket from the fulcrum to the head is consistent between rackets
    • Whether the balance point of this part of the racket is consistent
    • Whether the flex characteristics of this part of the racket is consistent
    • Whether the resin used to hold the racket and control cap in the handle is consistent in strength
    • Other things affecting torsion in the handle and at the fulcrum (i.e your grip)


    Many manufacturers do not even give a spec for flex (am looking at Yonex specifically), but Panda Power rackets have a flex range consistency of 0.3, whatever that means - so we can assume the flex is the same. We can also assume things affecting torsion in the handle are the same. So then the only question left to ask is whether the weight of just the weight and balance of the racket from the fulcrum to the head is consistent between different rackets of the same specs. A question for which an answer is not easily given, but I assume would be easily controlled.

    TL;DR: manufacturing consistency not guaranteed

  13. #5096
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    Er ignore the "the weight of just" bit, I should really proof read my posts before I hit reply

  14. #5097
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Good post. Summarizes what was left in my head very clearly regarding all the other facts that also play a part (in particular weight distribution in explaining bp difference for one particular model). What should perhaps be obvious regarding the handling from my impression in the past didn't seem to be regarded as such?

    Anyhoo good thing we aren't robots yet and feel still matters so to each his own and let's get it on!
    Last edited by demolidor; 05-26-2011 at 03:17 PM.

  15. #5098
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    On a completely unrelated subject what happened to the DC Badminton website? I has reverted to (presumably) an old version where the Precision is the newest racquet... I miss the newer site with the UPro and TPro on with the picture slideshows of the racquets and the specs etc... Does anyone know what happened?

  16. #5099
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teebs View Post
    I miss the newer site with the UPro and TPro on with the picture slideshows of the racquets and the specs etc... Does anyone know what happened?
    Panda is unsure, will ask Sketchy, thanks.

  17. #5100
    Regular Member DinkAlot's Avatar
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    Kenzo: quality post, thanks for contributing!

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