Low serve or Flick serve?

**bradmyster** · 04-26-2009, 02:42 AM

watch a match with strong players and see how many flick serve they use.
The main goal of doubles is to keep you and your partner on the attack to add as much pressure as possible.

If you flick serve the shuttle goes up giving your opponent the opportunity to attack. Which goes against the doubles goal.
As mentioned before the ratio of 80% short - 20% flick works well.

Because the 20% may equate to only say 2 or 3 flick serves per set (may be more or less) more than that and your opponent will come to expect it lol.

The other thing is for people to do a flick serve there is a slight change in body gesture as they drop and flick through the shuttle. Any decent player can read their opponents so its easy to pick up on and anticipate it.

So id recommend short serves with 2 or 3 flicks thrown in every now and then.

**Athelete1234** · 04-26-2009, 02:52 PM

You should watch out for who is good to flick against, and who you shouldn't flick against; my low serve can prevent a kill against my friend, but flicking up is just asking to get killed, cause he has the hardest smash on the team.

**RacketlonCanada** · 04-26-2009, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by bradmyster

If you flick serve the shuttle goes up giving your opponent the opportunity to attack. Which goes against the doubles goal.
As mentioned before the ratio of 80% short - 20% flick works well.

Because the 20% may equate to only say 2 or 3 flick serves per set (may be more or less) more than that and your opponent will come to expect it lol.

The other thing is for people to do a flick serve there is a slight change in body gesture as they drop and flick through the shuttle. Any decent player can read their opponents so its easy to pick up on and anticipate it.

So id recommend short serves with 2 or 3 flicks thrown in every now and then.

Glad to see somebody who really understands what I'm talking about.

80% short, 20% flick, never serve long because it only gives attack. Only reason why you should change this ratio is because the receiver has a bad smash.

**WhiteRice94** · 04-26-2009, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by RacketlonCanada

Glad to see somebody who really understands what I'm talking about.

80% short, 20% flick, never serve long because it only gives attack. Only reason why you should change this ratio is because the receiver has a bad smash.

Once again, you have missed the point. The point of a flick serve is to catch your opponent off guard, as everyone stated. Bad smash or not, they can still drop of clear. Of course that would be silly to long serve just to let your opponent smash you. Thats what flick serves are for, deception, not letting your opponent smash.

**Smash _Drop** · 04-28-2009, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by WhiteRice94

Once again, you have missed the point. The point of a flick serve is to catch your opponent off guard, as everyone stated. Bad smash or not, they can still drop of clear. Of course that would be silly to long serve just to let your opponent smash you. Thats what flick serves are for, deception, not letting your opponent smash.

In total agreement, if the only reason you would flick serve more (i.e changing the ratio) is because your opponent has a bad smash, then why would you flick serve?...surely your still giving him advantage by allowing him to attack, he may have a poor smash but his next shot may kill the shuttle....

. I know there are alot of people on BC for whom english is not there first language but you still need to be accurate in what u say

**RacketlonCanada** · 04-28-2009, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Smash _Drop

In total agreement, if the only reason you would flick serve more (i.e changing the ratio) is because your opponent has a bad smash, then why would you flick serve?...surely your still giving him advantage by allowing him to attack, he may have a poor smash but his next shot may kill the shuttle....

. I know there are alot of people on BC for whom english is not there first language but you still need to be accurate in what u say

Glad to see you think I'm now right on the good ratio serve. But why should you only serve long to an opponent? I see 3 obvious reasons, but let's just discuss if your opponent has a bad smash:

and the answer is...

...

COUNTER-ATTACK

In doubles, if your opponent has has a bad smash you will easily counter-attack by a strong drive or a tight block at the net leaving the other team disorganised.

Why do you think in mixed doubles they'res much more flick serves on the girl? Guess.... counter-attack!

To help you understand, here's a very good example of a flick serve setup in doubles that setups with a very good chance of winning the point but both teams have amazing defense(CLICK)

Now let's hope you understand my english, and this mystical aspect in the game of badminton called strategy.

**Smash _Drop** · 04-29-2009, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by RacketlonCanada

Glad to see you think I'm now right on the good ratio serve. But why should you only serve long to an opponent? I see 3 obvious reasons, but let's just discuss if your opponent has a bad smash:

and the answer is...

...

COUNTER-ATTACK

In doubles, if your opponent has has a bad smash you will easily counter-attack by a strong drive or a tight block at the net leaving the other team disorganised.

Why do you think in mixed doubles they'res much more flick serves on the girl? Guess.... counter-attack!

To help you understand, here's a very good example of a flick serve setup in doubles that setups with a very good chance of winning the point but both teams have amazing defense(CLICK)

Now let's hope you understand my english, and this mystical aspect in the game of badminton called strategy.

Ok ok...i think this is getting a little tedious now....I understand that you are trying to apply a strategy here but your strategy is only specific to a certain type of player and even then it is still risky. If you start to teach someone to flick serve all the time and I quote "But why should you only serve long to an opponent?" you are creating a player who is going to struggle as soon as he comes up against a stronger opponent. You will get used to flicking and focusing on your technique for the flick serve. but as you know, once you start playing at a good level you can’t afford to flick serve so much and I think you will struggle to adopt a good tight short serve and plus mentally u will be used to flicking.

I think fundamentally your strategy is flawed, I have never in my years of badminton heard of such a strategy and have never seen it adopted in practical situations...I think we should agree to disagree

**WhiteRice94** · 04-30-2009, 01:07 PM

I agree. Its just completely unorthodox to flick serve all the time, even if your opponent has a bad smash. As you play more experienced players, all they will do is anticipate it and treat it like any other opportunity to smash. Like Smash_Drop said, your stategy only applies to a certain type of player, and often it doesn't work.

**krisss** · 04-30-2009, 02:05 PM

I agree with RacketlonCanada here - use your opponents weeknesses to your adantage.

If you opponent has a bad smash then flick , but it does depend.

Some opponents I have played are the ones who naturally slice their shots thus giving them hardly any power , I can flick them as much as I like - I know if they drop , Ill get a net shot in or another lift which they can either do another drop shot where I'll either lift or net or they can clear where we will gain the advantage to attack.

You can also counter-attack as RacketlonCanada said which is a very powerful move. If they have bad smash and you flick serve you could do a crouch drive back aswell thus giving you the attack.

I'm not syaing flick to all opponents only ones with weak smashes that you can handle

.

I also love flicking people in county matches. Most people in county matches will stand right at the line - and try to attack my serve , i'll give them a low flick to the corner , the best they can normally do is a lift , or a weak smash.

I'm going to watch a few international matches on youtube tomorow and see what returns opponents give to a flick serve - I doubt most international players will reply with a "good" return aswell (when standing right at the service line)

**weeyeh** · 05-01-2009, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by krisss

I'm going to watch a few international matches on youtube tomorow and see what returns opponents give to a flick serve - I doubt most international players will reply with a "good" return aswell (when standing right at the service line)

From my own observation, most international doubles players kill the shot if they get to it. There are instances though where they over-anticipated a low serve and got caught. You will still see a good mix of flick and low serves to keep the opponent guessing.

**Smash _Drop** · 05-01-2009, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by krisss

I also love flicking people in county matches. Most people in county matches will stand right at the line - and try to attack my serve , i'll give them a low flick to the corner , the best they can normally do is a lift , or a weak smash.

I think this is the key point here. If your opponent is standing right up against the line and being very aggressive with his returns, then it’s good to try and catch him with a flick and like you said at best he's going to half smash lift or possibly do a drop shot.

With regards to him having a "weak smash".... at county level i think most people have a relatively good smash

. If you employ the tactic of flicking to exploit his "weak" smash, if his footwork, technique and dynamic speed are good he will get to the shuttle with a good position to really attack the shuttle. Weak smash or not he will kill the shuttle with ease. If he can’t then we've discussed what will happen above.