I went to the Singapore Open 2001 and 2002 and for the latter i was privileged enough to sit in the VIP area thanx to my Indian friend who has connections with the Indian national team. Jonas, i know you read the posts in this forum and this messaged is directly aimed at your team mates Jens Eriksen and Martin Lungaard Hansen. So i apologise if you get offended. In many big tournaments i see top players such as Candra/Sigit, Tony/Halim, Bambang/Trikus, Zhang Jun/Zhang Wei, Choong/Chang, etc etc Are some of the players who shout after winning a point. The womens pairs included of Gao Ling/Huang Sui, Zhang Jiawen/Wei Yili NB/Not making noises before serving or before the opponent serves but AFTER the point has been won. I saw the match between Eriksen/Lungaard-Hansen and japanese pair, can't remebmer their names and honestly i was appalled by the attitude of the Danish pair. Jens Eriksen was shouted after winning 1 point whilst trying to wind-up the Japanese pair. He got a warning from the umpire for that. After, Martin Lungaard-Hansen threw the shuttle back at the 1 of the Japanese players and but not before shouting "shut up!" first. The Japanese pair apologised to the Danes and the umpire though i feel that the Danes do not deserve the apology. Unfortunately Eriksen/Lungaard-Hansen won. Don't get me wrong, i am not racist and have nothing against the Danes, just these 2. I mean what is their problem?? Another similar incident was at the Thomas Cup when they lost to Candra/Sigit, the 3rd set, 1 of the Danes pissed Sigit off causing a heated word exchange between them. In the end Candra/Sigit came out on top. This is a point that i feel i must raise, why the hell must their opponents "shut up"? I mean the point has been won, if you are angry and complain, u have no one to blame but yourself. For this alone, i will never support this pair and it has branded Jens Eriksen and Martin Lungaard-Hansen as the "Mr bad attitudes" of the badminton world in my opinion. They don't deserve any respect at all from me. Let me just add, that their world-class skills are no excuse for what they did.
It's not new, it happened like that too in the 2002 swiss open when Eriksen/Lungaard-Hansen were playing against a korean pair lee dong soo and yoo yong sung. Typical of korean, they make a quick shout after winning their points (not all the time though) and Eriksen complained to the umpire. Later Erksen complained to the umpire that some audience is making excess noise. The umpire didn't do anything. In this case, the KOR pair prevail after changing their tactics.
I think it'a bad habit to shout after every point. (and sometimes before!!!) The Japanese and Koreans are the specilists of that. What for??? I understand the attitude of the Danes. They play a lot of times against this style of players and it's really irritating.
Shouting screaming very common in Table tennis. I suppose the Danes not used to it. The best eg. of screaming are the Chinese badminton team especially Chen Hong. Everytime he scores he will raise his fists and scream 'Good Shot".Many of the ladies doubles players also shriek on court.
Its just a way of pushing oneself and motivating one self in competition. I do not see it as a problem if players are polite enough not to raise their voices too much. And the Danish pair didn't have to show such lousy atitudes if they can't stand it either .... They just have to politely ask ... can't they ?? I'm quite sure their opponents will be more than embarassed if asked politely ... And their complaining about the crowd, then it just shows how naive they are ! If they were in Malaysia or Indonesia playing a Thomas Cup game against any of the S.E. Asian power houses, well, they'll probably get missiles thrown at them by the crowd if they complained !!!
hahaha.... very true Gladius, especially that missile part. Shouting is commonly seen in most of sports and I do agree with it though, professional players are not playing at social or casual circumstances, they are in a very competitive environment, which either they are going win or lose their games and its very important for them. Shouting is one of the primarily way to motivated themselves towards the top ranking. If I recall correctly, Peter Gade also does a little celebrating or raise his fists after he scores important points, so I am pretty sure shouting is not against European cultural. However, the point is not to bother your opponents and in the case of Jens Eriksen and Martin Lungaard Hansen, they are just over exaggerated, which only harms Danes from spectators¡¦ eyes since they are not only representing themselves, they are also representing as a whole Danes team. Hope they will realize that they might have to spend 3 years to build up their repretation but so easy to raze them as just in 3 seconds. Ivan
It seems to me that rude, arrogant behavior after a score started with American football. I could be wrong, but that's where I first noticed it. Now it's spread to other sports and other countries. IMO, it has no place anywhere in sports. I'm sorry to see it in such a traditionally "gentleman & ladies" sport such as badminton. Humility and graciousness in victory is a wonderful thing.
Post point shouting Wow...I can't BELIEVE there's a discussion going on about if it's OK to shout AFTER winning a point. This must be some of the remains of badminton's essentially snobby, upper-class crap that used to irritate the hell out of me when I was playing competitively. Too many country club rich boys, too much like millionaire's lawn bowling or something. Give me a break, please! It's a sport!! In a highly competive, top-level situation with much on the line, shouting AFTER a point should be something that obviously happens. This discussion is unbelievable!
Re: Post point shouting Which snobby, upper class crap is this? Badminton isn't dominated by particularly rich Countries, is it? A lot of badminton is about grace. Previously players were renowned for their coolness and mental toughness on court which involved refraining from contant grunting or shouting. The shouting thing is a recent phenomenon which imo takes away some of the grace of the sport. This is not an upper class view. Not every sport has to follow the same route.
That can't be good, I mean its alright to physk yourself up, dont not vulgar gestures etc. It all about ettiquette
Byro Did you mean the Japanese pair shouted after every point won and that's what Lungaard had a problem with?
UKplayer - snobby crap I have only a few vivid memories of my competitive badminton days in Canada. Mostly I remember that it was the rich kids whose parents could afford to pay for the expensive private club memberships and had several rackets who won. Let's face it, badminton at the higher levels costs money, in much the same way that golf does. To become a member of the club I'm thinking of cost about $10,000 a year plus. With that came coaching, court time, etc., and not surprisingly, winning. Also with that came a country club focus on court manners, appropriate (ie: expensive) dress, etc., which often accompanies sports that are primarily played by wealthy people. Maybe things are different in the UK, but your point about badminton being popular only in rich countries misses the point - the question is who can excel at badminton in the places where it is played. The answer is people who have money. Sure a lot of people play in local gyms and clubs, and there are some good players there, but like golf, getting to another level usually takes a lot of your parent's money. Really, I can only reiterate my point that it is surely a sign of snobery, or in a sport if people have to discuss whether or not it is OK to shout AFTER a point. Sports played by a wide spectrum of economic classes rarely discuss appropriate behavior, dress, and so on.
Re: Post point shouting To me, it has nothing to do with country-club snobbery--it has to do with respect for the opponent. This is not about celebrating after a victory after it's all over. This kind of thing--showboating, hotdogging, whatever it is called--comes out of inflated ego (as exhibited by some of our US athletes in Olympic competition). Athletes used to have too much class for that. (Besides, in some sports--especially like hockey, football, basketball, baseball--the opponent would find some way to hurt this player during the game.) Maybe I'm just old-fashioned. That's my opinion anyway.
Re: Re: Post point shouting I don't understand how shouting or fist-pumping after a point would be considered "show-boating". I also don't see why it would imply a lack of respect for your opponent. Finger pointing, or open taunting I can see. Making noise BEFORE the point I can also see. But in a tense situation, winning a big point after a long rally, and then letting out a little grunt, or a loud shout and fist-pump, essentially to yourself...it just seems natural to me. There is more than one way to play and to win. I admire the way Borg played: Steely and in total control, the classic ice-man. But I also admire the way Conners or McEnroe played too: Brash and fiery. There should be room in every sport for different types of play and personality, not that I'd like to see badminton players going where McEnroe went sometimes. And let's not forget, there IS a way for you to "hurt" that player if you find him or her too vocal for your taste. Just win, baby!
Re: UKplayer - snobby crap Where do you come up with this! And by the way, I do not buy that you need parent's money to get to higher level. Lack of parent's money for not reaching to a higher level is just an excuse that only demeans your parents unjustifiably. All you need is strong passion, talents and willingness to work for it. You do not have to be rich. You are already rich when you have passion and talent for badminton.
I think the original point in Bryo's posting is the lack of respect and poor sportspersonship being exhibited by the players. We were all taught to show respect for your opponents, etc... Taunting, finger-pointing, etc. has no place in sports (regardless whether it's badminton, tennis or whatever). I remembered watching the Swiss Open men doubles final where Eriksen was so pissed off at the Koreans that he was indicating to them to shut their mouths. Respect goes both ways and in that match, there was a point where Lee yelled before the play was dead (although it was obvious that the point was already won).
Re: Re: Re: Post point shouting Well, let me just say that in sports which involved direct player-to-player competition, even such small celebrations while the contest is in progress would be called "rubbing it in" and would be considered bad sportsmanship. I realize that idea is becoming archaic in a world where trashiness is increasingly accepted and even considered good marketing.
I wouldn't consider it rubbing it in as its not done deliberately to provoke the opponents. Unlike when Eriksen did it back to the japanese pair he did it on purpose and got a warning for it. Lets say that its proven to be a "lack of respect", so? What can u do? its not in the rule book that you can't shout after winning a point, so why complain and make a row out of it? Isn't that just being immature as your fighting a fight you can't win
i find this shouting after a point just similar to celebration of a goal in soccer... isnt that worse? rubbing-in? yes. but nobody is preventing anybody from doing it...
Indeed, it feels good after winning a point in a long rally..... likewise in football whereby players celebrate after scoring a goal. I also agree that it is a way to psyche yourself up. If your opponents can't take it, it means they're mentally not prepared. It's not to the extent whereby you shout extremely loudly or glaring at your opponents faces. Rubbing in or not, you'll have to get on with it. Life goes on. Otherwise, you're bascially a sore loser.
