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Thread: smash factor

  1. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle_peanuts View Post
    i dont know how much clearer i can be. when you perform a jump smash the majority of the power comes from your LEGS. racket speed, wrist snap, forearm pronation etc are all important factors but if one were to rank the most important in terms of sheer power, then the legs generate the most.

    btw, the kickout has very little to do with the energy coming up, it's strictly there because it's the most natural thing to do when you curl your legs up: to kick out. you are looking a bit to much into that
    uncle,
    are you a coach? level 3 coach?
    your technique on this is true.

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    nope not a coach but ive been taught by some very good people

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    Quote Originally Posted by William86_98 View Post
    i think i would disagree with the point where in a jump smash, power is transferred to the arms and wrist from the legs. this does not seem to be physically possible. i think the only bonus that the legs give to a smash in a jump smash is that the jump results in the body being higher up off the ground, therefore, there is greater potential energy due to gravity. however, it would be physically incorrect to say that the legs give power in a smash while you are in the air. The core and back does contribute directly to the hit down, but the legs don't.
    uhm... it does contributes. in fact i doubt that gravity due to your jump's height play the part. from my experience, i used my leg to jump to get the angle, but more important, i use my leg motion to help me stretch my torso. and for those who does jump smash, u know what next =).

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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle_peanuts View Post
    that is 100% untrue. ask any professional coach about that topic and they will tell you otherwise. your power comes from you legs, transferred all the way through to your wrist. your wrist is only so strong, you cant just hit a 300KM/hr smash from your wrist or upper body alone.
    you are right, ask any coach and they will tell you that the power comes from the legs. and i realize that you've been playing for a long time. but....probably so has the majority of ppl in this forum?!? and I too, from a young age..have been told that the power for hits "comes" from your legs. and with regards to technique...i am not doubting your correctness or knowledge at all.

    BUT, what i've learned through my studies is that things are not always as they seem....and just because something is the common perception, doesn't mean that is what is happening physiologically.

    Do you understand WHY the legs are important physically in a jump smash? I'm not questioning your statement that strong legs are essential to a smash. But, they are important because they act as an important stability factor/along with the core, so that your upper body can be harnessed to its full power. Obviously, if your legs/core is weak, then once your are in the air, this instability will not allow your upper body to be harnessed to its full potential.

    You have been taught by some great ppl...but what makes you think I haven't...and yes...all of them will teach you that the power of a smash comes from the legs...and many of them use the word "transfer" power. BUT....how many of them can explain the physiological reasons behind HOW this "transfer" occurs? So, I think a more proper way to say it is that stronger legs "allow" for a strong smash because the added stability lets your upper body harness more power. More Strength = more stability = more power. Although I agree that the word "transfer" is a good way to teach players and to allow them to understand, because it does "feel" that way. And it feels that way because when you jump..you're focusing on your legs...to recruit muscle fibres for the jump..then..after you are in the air....you change your mental focus to recruiting muscle fibres in your upper body. Without doubt, this creates a SENSATION that power is being "transferred" through your body. But is this actually what is happening physiologically?..I don't think so.

    another example: stand stationary and try to smash as hard as you can without turning your lower body. you'll find that this is quite difficult since you can only use your wrist and chest.
    now try turning your lower body as well as your upper body. as soon as you do this, you are utlizing your whole body (IN PARTICULAR YOUR LEGS) your smash will be significantly harder
    the stationary smash is a completely different physiologically as compared to the jump smash. In a stationary smash, one is able to use the legs to push off the ground in a turn to perform the smash. In a jump smash, there is no turning of the legs...a proper jump smash is done with a straight smash up with straight back and head. the stationary smash is much more complex physiologically than the jump smash, and my arguments don't pertain to them at all. Although the original article talked about smash factor, I'm quite certain that our conversation had turned into a specific one about the jump smash, and that is what i was commenting on.
    Last edited by William86_98; 06-16-2009 at 01:25 PM.

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    When smashing, the legs (particularly the hips) initiate body rotation. This does two things:

    1. gives your body momentum which can be transferred through the arm and into the racquet

    2. puts the appropriate shoulder muscles into a pre-stretch which increases the potential for power from the shoulder

    However, for a jump smash, body rotation is quite slow, so in my opinion #1 isn't the key factor here. #2 on the other hand is quite important. There is also a third factor at work: if the body is moving away or not moving forwards into the shot, you're less efficient at transferring energy outwards from the body. For example, if you were to extend your elbow with your shoulder relaxed, your hand will move one way while your shoulder goes the other way to conserve momentum. Now lets say you swing your arm gently just before you extend the elbow. Going one way, the two movements interfere and cancel each other out. The other way, they sum up so all the energy gets transferred to the hand. The idea is that having the right body movement will minimize energy loss like this and help ensure that it all gets transferred to the end - the racquet.

    In practice, what this means to me is to emphasize correct body position and initiate the shot with the legs to get the correct movement and stretch reflex. However, I wouldn't really emphasize turning the hips faster for "more power". As for the kick, like william86-98 says, it's more for stabilizing the body than for creating movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by William86_98 View Post
    BUT....how many of them can explain the physiological reasons behind HOW this "transfer" occurs? So, I think a more proper way to say it is that stronger legs "allow" for a strong smash because the added stability lets your upper body harness more power. More Strength = more stability = more power. Although I agree that the word "transfer" is a good way to teach players and to allow them to understand, because it does "feel" that way. And it feels that way because when you jump..you're focusing on your legs...to recruit muscle fibres for the jump..then..after you are in the air....you change your mental focus to recruiting muscle fibres in your upper body. Without doubt, this creates a SENSATION that power is being "transferred" through your body. But is this actually what is happening physiologically?..I don't think so.
    yes, your legs definitely gives you more stability in the air when performing a jump smash, no question. although this is a very important point (stability=strength=power) i still thoroughly believe that in actuality, power is still being transferred through your body, and that it's not just a 'sensation' or feeling that you get. like ive said before, i dont know the precise physics behind it, but i can assure you that this is what is happening.

    maybe i missed it, but i have yet to read where you think the power is generated from. wrist, arms, chest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle_peanuts View Post
    yes, your legs definitely gives you more stability in the air when performing a jump smash, no question. although this is a very important point (stability=strength=power) i still thoroughly believe that in actuality, power is still being transferred through your body, and that it's not just a 'sensation' or feeling that you get. like ive said before, i dont know the precise physics behind it, but i can assure you that this is what is happening.

    maybe i missed it, but i have yet to read where you think the power is generated from. wrist, arms, chest?
    Referring back to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIYbsGYT4m4&feature=fvsr I would think the power exerted on the bird is a summation of the trunk turn, arms, and wrist, and other upper body forces. Forces that are "above" the "pivot" (centre of gravity) of the body. These forces are what are pushing downwards. Power is only exerted when there is movement, and these are the parts that move once he is in the air.

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    I don't see the point of arguing this. Let's just list out the SMASH FACTOR and JUMP SMASH FACTOR. And when i said list mean just LIST THEM ALL out.

    ON ground smash
    1. body
    2. shoulder
    3. wrist (i would think it's tricep muscle power?)
    4. flat face contact with the bird
    5. speed of the swing (fast then good with tight tension)

    JUMP smash
    1. Leg
    2. Body
    3. Shoulder (obviously I'll list everything else from the first one)

  9. #26
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    Here's what I look for:

    Basic Stuff
    • side on correct body alignment (side on position)
    • correct sequence of movements (proximal -> distal)
    • correct grip (forehand vs panhandle)
    • overhead contact (many beginners contact out to the side)
    • gross vs fine motor control (many people are too fine motor control dominant)

    More Advanced Stuff
    • core strength (look for the lumbar spine to rotate as one unit, rather than twist)
    • hand/wrist stiffness at contact (dependant on isometric/eccentric strength + RFD)
    • subtle grip adjustments to account for misalignments in body position
    • ability to stabilize the body before as part of stroke preparation, in a variety of situations
    • ability to see the court and opponents, and recognize openings
    • recovery after smashing, particularly moving in to the net quickly
    • upper body strength
    In terms of prioritization, fix the more basic stuff first. A lot of that stuff can be adjusted by getting the right cues and corrections (from a coach) while training. The more advanced stuff is not as easy to fix via verbal cues - for each one you'll have some supplemental exercises/drills to correct or teach it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle_peanuts View Post
    yes, your legs definitely gives you more stability in the air when performing a jump smash, no question. although this is a very important point (stability=strength=power) i still thoroughly believe that in actuality, power is still being transferred through your body, and that it's not just a 'sensation' or feeling that you get. like ive said before, i dont know the precise physics behind it, but i can assure you that this is what is happening.

    maybe i missed it, but i have yet to read where you think the power is generated from. wrist, arms, chest?
    The last part kind of give me the idea that you're saying wrist, arms, and chest doesn't give power to the smash? I'll be wow if you think like that. No offence, but stop listen to people. Well sry for that, do listen to people, but you must study wat u've heard and apply, and see if it is true. Not just totally took for it. The part of being a great badminton player is LISTEN, UNDERSTAND, and PRACTICE. You don't want to miss any of those 3.
    But of course If i ever misunderstood what u said then yea sry.

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    Default Peter Speaks!


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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteInk View Post
    i've did some search and don't remember seeing a topic discussing this issue.

    Which factor do you guys think that MOST affect the power of your smash?
    I know the answer is ALL, but how about the most important factor?(assuming you got all three correct)

    1. power of arm?
    2. technique?
    3. speed of racket swing?
    4. birdie?
    priority to 2 and 3

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