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  1. #18
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default The stats, world ranking and all as proofs..

    Quote Originally Posted by suetyan View Post
    Actually there are so many arguments regarding the strongest MD. In fact, there are no strong and weak among the top 10 pairs in the BWF ranking. They are all strong. It is just a matter that, which pair is mentally and physically better on the particular day, the pair might win the match.
    Quote Originally Posted by narnia View Post
    I totally agree. But the stats show something meaningful.
    ..they are all strong, but if anything, yes, the points, stats, winning percentage, titles, world ranking are the best indicators to know where the top pairs stand.
    Quote Originally Posted by n|mr0d View Post
    How would you treat this scenario? Team A always landing in the finals for 8 SS, but always losing to 8 different oponents. Their winning percentage is 0%

    If we want to use data to back-up whoever is the strongest, lets use the world rankings.
    - If Team A is LYD & JJS, they did win some titles to back up their Finals Round appearances in 2008.
    - I think narnia has used the world ranking of the top 10 MD pairs to provide his datas.

    narnia is fine arguing his points here, as long as he can provide datas to back up his claims (as shown by the graphic in the previous page).
    Last edited by ctjcad; 06-17-2009 at 12:46 AM.

  2. #19
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    wow, this shows that u are indeed a superb stats collectors, narnia. please keep up the good work

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..

    - If Team A is LYD & JJS, they did win some titles to back up their Finals Round appearances in 2008.
    - I think narnia has used the world ranking of the top 10 MD pairs to provide his datas.
    Team A as I mentioned it, does not refer to any team. It's just an illustration.

  4. #21
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default ^^Then..^^

    ..the conclusion is their winning percentage in the Finals Rd is yes, 0 %.
    However, we don't know if their 8 different opponents are ranked in the top 10 or not. narnia was illustrating/giving datas comparing the top 10 MD pairs' head-to-head records.

  5. #22
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    Okay, thanks for the many comments.

    In short, in the master table, I decided to remove AC/NR as they are a new partnership not in top 10 in BWF, and Fuzzy as they are not qualified with too low winning % of around 20% against the Tops. Esp. Fuzzy could get some titles with BWF points when many other top players did not participate in the tourneys after Olympics. MK/HS also got some titles at the time to keep their current BWF ranking. (In fact, the BWF ranking doesn't tell us who's the real strongest team among the strongest. It's only based on the titles.)

    Anyway, it's come down to 6 top teams. Please note that no other official BWF team currently playing has more than 20% of winning % against these 6 teams. These 6 teams are current tops.

    Name:  H2H of Top MDs.jpg
Views: 362
Size:  56.2 KB
    (SSF8: Super Series Finals 2008)

    Let's check the status again among the Tops;

    - JJS/LYD still has the winning % of 72% against the other top 5 MD teams.
    - FHF/CY has 60% with not sufficient matches. (they had some split times in 2008.)
    - MK/HS has 50%, the only team they never beaten is JJS/LYD for the period.
    - KKK/TBH had the most number of matches (19) but didn't win even half of them.

    Enjoy~
    Last edited by narnia; 06-17-2009 at 11:37 PM.

  6. #23
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    Sorry, Updated again. (JJS/LYD's MAS9 was double counted.)

    Name:  H2H_6 of Top MDs.jpg
Views: 361
Size:  57.5 KB

  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    It is quite useful in a general sense.

    Apart from Abedeng's points, does it take into account the 1st round byes?
    The stats counted all matches ever played actually.

  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by n|mr0d View Post
    How would you treat this scenario? Team A always landing in the finals for 8 SS, but always losing to 8 different oponents. Their winning percentage is 0%

    If we want to use data to back-up whoever is the strongest, lets use the world rankings.
    No, that could be called as "title-achieving" %, which doesn't reflect how strong they are.

    If Team A had landed in the finals it must have beaten some Top teams. I counted this stats and call it Winning % against the other Top teams.

    In short, I'm choosing "relative measure" among the top players to assess who's the strongest MD team.

  9. #26
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    Kinda surprised me that Fuzzy pair were included in this statistic.
    Last edited by haifeng4ever; 06-18-2009 at 12:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by haifeng4ever View Post
    Kinda surprised me that Fuzzy pair were included in this statistic.
    Yeah, I was thinking over that, too. So, in the updated table, I omitted the pair and AC/NR.

  11. #28
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Can i order 2 more requests, narnia??..

    ..and they are:
    - Could you provide head-to-head stats between those pairs that were ranked in the top 10 @ the end of 2008?
    - Could you provide overall win-loss records for each of those pairs that were ranked in the top 10 @ the end of 2008?
    I'm looking for their stats just for the yr 2008, no more & no less.
    Thanks in advance..

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..and they are:
    - Could you provide head-to-head stats between those pairs that were ranked in the top 10 @ the end of 2008?
    - Could you provide overall win-loss records for each of those pairs that were ranked in the top 10 @ the end of 2008?
    I'm looking for their stats just for the yr 2008, no more & no less.
    Thanks in advance..
    You can just count what you want to see in the master table. 8 means 2008.
    As I discussed, to know the strongest, 6 teams are enough; the other 4 are just so and so less than 20% of winning % against the other tops. They're not actually tops despite the BWF ranking; that's why I asked you to check the ranking system line by line; only when you correctly understand the ranking system you can know why they're ranked in top 10 even though they are not that strong.
    Last edited by narnia; 06-18-2009 at 02:49 AM.

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    Based on this approach, JJS is quite strong (also I think he is pretty good) and LYD is a minor factor, as LYD/SBC lost to MB/CM thus have a 0-1 record. On the other hand, the records for CY/XC are 1-0 over KKK/TBH, 1-0 over LP/JR and 0-2 to MK/HS, for FHF/SY 2-0 over MB/CM, 1-0 over NR/AC, 1-0 over LP/JR and 0-1 to MK/HS (CY/XC 1-0 FHF/SY). FHF looks so strong...

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried_Li View Post
    Based on this approach, JJS is quite strong (also I think he is pretty good) and LYD is a minor factor, as LYD/SBC lost to MB/CM thus have a 0-1 record. On the other hand, the records for CY/XC are 1-0 over KKK/TBH, 1-0 over LP/JR and 0-2 to MK/HS, for FHF/SY 2-0 over MB/CM, 1-0 over NR/AC, 1-0 over LP/JR and 0-1 to MK/HS (CY/XC 1-0 FHF/SY). FHF looks so strong...
    In that case, Fu Haifeng/Shen Ye's record over the top 6 pairs is 3-1 (75%).

  15. #32
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Hmm..

    Quote Originally Posted by narnia View Post
    You can just count what you want to see in the master table. 8 means 2008.
    As I discussed, to know the strongest, 6 teams are enough; the other 4 are just so and so less than 20% of winning % against the other tops. They're not actually tops despite the BWF ranking; that's why I asked you to check the ranking system line by line; only when you correctly understand the ranking system you can know why they're ranked in top 10 even though they are not that strong.
    - Why the top 6 only? Why not top 5 only? Or top 3 only?
    - I'd like to "read/check more of what's in the ranking system line by line" if you can pin-point me to a link where i can read it.
    My only hunch on why the other 4 pairs are in the top 10 is because they played in more tourneys than those pairs outside of the top 10 or even the other top 6 pairs.
    - My request was to accommodate others' queries about the overall win-loss record from each of the top 10 pairs; showing total wins or losses accummulated over 2008. But if you feel it's not necessary, then we understand.

  16. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by badMania View Post
    In that case, Fu Haifeng/Shen Ye's record over the top 6 pairs is 3-1 (75%).
    Cool. Any possibility they will prove their consistent strength by pairing in more tourneys in the future?

  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    - Why the top 6 only? Why not top 5 only? Or top 3 only?
    - I'd like to "read/check more of what's in the ranking system line by line" if you can pin-point me to a link where i can read it.
    My only hunch on why the other 4 pairs are in the top 10 is because they played in more tourneys than those pairs outside of the top 10 or even the other top 6 pairs.
    - My request was to accommodate others' queries about the overall win-loss record from each of the top 10 pairs; showing total wins or losses accummulated over 2008. But if you feel it's not necessary, then we understand.
    - The top 6 teams are very well known as actual top players; they proved it by many tourneys and they have always positioned in the top seeds. As mentioned before, the Fuzzy team ranked in #7 has only 20% of winning % against the top 6, which means the other low-ranked teams have less % or they had not have enough matches against the top 6 to be considered. Top 5 or 3 could be alternatives but the 6 teams are well established and proven teams to be considered.

    - Here is the link; Part III, Section 1, Appendix 6
    http://www.internationalbadminton.or....aspx?id=10513

    - You can check the other stats using the master table.

    Enjoy!

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