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  1. #1
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Question Badminton Central Open Tournament - Suggestions Please!

    Sometime later this year, we intend to organise a tournament in Singapore.
    We need suggestions on how to improve on the basic plan outlined below


    A. The tournament will have only one competition category -- Doubles.
    The players in a team may be male-male, male-female or ostrich-papaya.


    B. The tournament will be open to all BC members regardless of age, nationality, etc. Registration, announcements, fixtures and results will all be managed only through the forum's pages. Amateur, professional, international, retired, coach, student, Danish, Chinese, Singaporean, Malaysian, Indonesian, Martian - all are eligible to compete.


    C. The tournament will be age-weighted (and this is explained further below). Proof of age is required and will be asked for.


    D. The tournament will accommodate a maximum of 128 teams.


    E. Cash prizes await every team that makes it to the Round of 16.
    The tournament's total prize money will be $3,000 (Singapore Dollars).

    Winning Pair - S$1,001
    Runner-Up Pair - S$501

    Losing Semifinalists - $255 per pair
    Losing Quarterfinalists - S$125 per pair

    Round of 16 Exit - S$61 per pair


    F. With 128 teams, the competition will span at least three weekends - the match hours will be spread over Saturday afternoon and Sunday. This is to allow office-goers to hold on to their paid leave.


    G. A regsitration fee will be charged to offset at least a part of the expenses.
    Subject to the final plan, this might be S$20 to S$30 per pair.
    Please note that we will not be chasing any sponsors or government agencies.
    The entire outlay will be funded from no-strings-attached, personal funds.


    H. Referees, umpires, line-judges, scorers, etc will all be volunteers.


    How Does Age-Weighting Work?

    1. Age-weighting decides the opening score in every game.
    2. So, the older you are, the better your starting position.
    3. 16 years is the lower limit for weighting - the upper limit is 72.
    4. You will be marked as 16-years-old even if you are younger than 16.
    5. You will be marked as 72-years-old even if you are older than 72.
    6. A female player brings a 1-point starting bonus to her pair.
    7. The difference in the pairs' combined ages will be the weight-marker.
    8. The weightage calculation will use this measure: 6 years = 1 point

    Difference of 0-5 years - No Weightage
    Difference of 6-11 years - 1 point
    Difference of 12-17 years - 2 points
    Difference of 18-23 years - 3 points
    Difference of 24-29 years - 4 points
    Difference of 30-35 years - 5 points
    ... and so on until ....
    Difference of 108-112 years - 18 points

    To illustrate:

    Pair A comprises two 16-year-old males - the total is 32.
    Pair B comprises two 72-year-old males - the total is 144.
    Difference in combined ages = 144-32 = 112 years.
    So, if Pair A plays Pair B, the game will start with Pair B leading 18-0.

    And, if Pair B comprises two 72-year-old females, they will start with a lead of 20-0. (Such a pair is unlikely - but if they do turn up, they deserve to win )

    Please jump in with suggestions.
    We hope to host this very soon

  2. #2
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    I like the age weighting, but I suspect the gender weight is too little and female players would be greatly discouraged from participating. I suggest a 3-5 point weight for ladies.

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    Lol , now many 72 year old ladies will be entering .

    I love the idea of the tournament.

    It would also be funny to see JR their :-)!

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    However, I think it should be like a "bell" curve rather than a curved line, as players usually peak at 20s, instead of teens.

    Say, team A has 2 16 years old = 32, team B has 2 25 years old = 50. Team B - team A = 18, which means 3 points.

    However, from amature perspective, usually the 25 years old are much better than 16 years old. So, the match should start with 3:0, rather than 0:3 as the original method.

    My suggestion is to set up the bench mark @ 20 - 25, and make all between to be 0. Then, either younger or older will receive some "bonus" based on the "weighting".

  5. #5
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazyBuddy View Post
    However, I think it should be like a "bell" curve rather than a curved line, as players usually peak at 20s, instead of teens.

    Say, team A has 2 16 years old = 32, team B has 2 25 years old = 50. Team B - team A = 18, which means 3 points.

    However, from amature perspective, usually the 25 years old are much better than 16 years old. So, the match should start with 3:0, rather than 0:3 as the original method.

    My suggestion is to set up the bench mark @ 20 - 25, and make all between to be 0. Then, either younger or older will receive some "bonus" based on the "weighting".
    That sounds very sensible.
    Perhaps we should work out a median for the 'best' age.

    20 to 26 sounds just right.
    Most of the pros out there are somewhere in between.
    Well, most of them

  6. #6
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mettayogi View Post
    I like the age weighting, but I suspect the gender weight is too little and female players would be greatly discouraged from participating. I suggest a 3-5 point weight for ladies.
    Well, that would then open up more than a bit of manipulation.
    For instance, entering an XD pair would work extremely well for a few

  7. #7
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    To be honest, I think it is rather complex to use the age weighting method......

    I know many player in their early 30s who surely can beat many players in their 20s or teens.

    Actually, it all really depends on who is taking part in the competition.

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    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by modious View Post
    To be honest, I think it is rather complex to use the age weighting method......

    I know many player in their early 30s who surely can beat many players in their 20s or teens.

    Actually, it all really depends on who is taking part in the competition.
    The converse also holds true.
    I know many teens who can whip 30-year-olds

    The intention is also to provide a competition avenue for those who have already left the arena or are no longer able to compete at the highest national level.

    For instance, Ronald Susilo and Khoo Kian Teck could take part in this.
    So could Tri Kusharyanto and Minarti Timur... or even someone like Sigit.
    And it would only be fair to provide a starting bonus to the older pairs.

    One way to lure the teams of the past is to increase the prize money.
    Perhaps we can drop the cash incentives for the pre-SF rounds and add them to the good bag for the SF and Final teams

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    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    just in singapore??

  10. #10
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by george@chongwei View Post
    just in singapore??
    A hit-and-run post offers nothing.

    Do you have a suggestion?
    If you do, let us have it.

  11. #11
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    A hit-and-run post offers nothing.

    Do you have a suggestion?
    If you do, let us have it.
    before giving suggestions, i need to know something that i dont understand/want to know 1st. so does this tournament just in singapore or what? do you want to make it just in singapore?? maybe if you want to have this tournament opens to all BC members worldwide, we must have to get some help from members from each countries

  12. #12
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    I ran a tournament in my club used a modified version of the following format http://www.worldbadminton.com/mixerFormat.htm

    It was good for a group of 50 or so players. The way I modified is put the teams as people walk-in and then in a queue, this way all the teams are random(also, you can missing a day or two and still be in it), they good thing with this format from my experience is better players always come up on top, so I guess this is more fair.

    The problem with "handicap" format is that you can't really rank the people as a 72 years could be a better player then a 16 years old. And I can almost predict the winner of this tournament would be 2 "A" players team together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by george@chongwei View Post
    before giving suggestions, i need to know something that i dont understand/want to know 1st. so does this tournament just in singapore or what? do you want to make it just in singapore?? maybe if you want to have this tournament opens to all BC members worldwide, we must have to get some help from members from each countries
    I suggest you read the very first line of this thread again.

  14. #14
    Moderator drifit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldhand View Post
    A. The tournament will have only one competition category -- Doubles.
    The players in a team may be male-male, male-female or ostrich-papaya.


    B. The tournament will be open to all BC members regardless of age, nationality, etc. Registration, announcements, fixtures and results will all be managed only through the forum's pages. Amateur, professional, international, retired, coach, student, Danish, Chinese, Singaporean, Malaysian, Indonesian, Martian - all are eligible to compete.

    D. The tournament will accommodate a maximum of 128 teams.


    E. Cash prizes await every team that makes it to the Round of 16.
    The tournament's total prize money will be $3,000 (Singapore Dollars).

    Winning Pair - S$1,001
    Runner-Up Pair - S$501

    Losing Semifinalists - $255 per pair
    Losing Quarterfinalists - S$125 per pair

    Round of 16 Exit - S$61 per pair

    How Does Age-Weighting Work?

    3. 16 years is the lower limit for weighting - the upper limit is 72.

    And, if Pair B comprises two 72-year-old females, they will start with a lead of 20-0. (Such a pair is unlikely - but if they do turn up, they deserve to win )
    1. how about kungfu panda & bumble-bee?
    2. pro shall not be eligible. what if they loose? if they are allow, must be retired from the field at least 3 years.
    3. who is the international?
    4. Martian? if one team from Martian arrives, we all surrender. by the way, do they have internet to log into BC? they are still outdated.
    5. 128 teams, should we reduce as for start? 128 kind of too many. how many matches going to be? 64+32+16+8+4+2+1? 3 weekends or 3 months to complete the tourney?
    6. the one age 72, must be Oldhand. age 72, also kind of not so good. i am scare of heart problem. cash prize involve. maybe to limit at 65? or 60?
    7. i will get 2 grandmas to enter. split the prize, i still can get SGD300 without sweat.

  15. #15
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slam_w2k View Post
    I ran a tournament in my club used a modified version of the following format http://www.worldbadminton.com/mixerFormat.htm

    It was good for a group of 50 or so players. The way I modified is put the teams as people walk-in and then in a queue, this way all the teams are random(also, you can missing a day or two and still be in it), they good thing with this format from my experience is better players always come up on top, so I guess this is more fair.

    The problem with "handicap" format is that you can't really rank the people as a 72 years could be a better player then a 16 years old. And I can almost predict the winner of this tournament would be 2 "A" players team together.
    We tried out a modified version of Tvrtko Macan's system earlier this year (we had 24 teams blind-paired and age-weighted). It worked well enough for the best pairing to win it too.

    The idea is not to shepherd older players to a victory.
    The idea is to level the playing field so that age is NOT a barrier.

    Also, we will have to insist on a formal pre-competition registration process.
    A walk-in system simply doesn't work for something planned on this scale and, indeed, could be very chaotic from an organiser's perspective

  16. #16
    Moderator Oldhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drifit View Post
    1. how about kungfu panda & bumble-bee?
    2. pro shall not be eligible. what if they loose? if they are allow, must be retired from the field at least 3 years.
    3. who is the international?
    4. Martian? if one team from Martian arrives, we all surrender. by the way, do they have internet to log into BC? they are still outdated.
    5. 128 teams, should we reduce as for start? 128 kind of too many. how many matches going to be? 64+32+16+8+4+2+1? 3 weekends or 3 months to complete the tourney?
    6. the one age 72, must be Oldhand. age 72, also kind of not so good. i am scare of heart problem. cash prize involve. maybe to limit at 65? or 60?
    7. i will get 2 grandmas to enter. split the prize, i still can get SGD300 without sweat.
    I have a feeling that we might see at least BC's panda in action

    LazyBuddy and modious have a significant point on the age base.
    We need to rethink what the ideal 'strong' age (or bracket) is.
    Perhaps 20 to 29 years should be the unweighted bracket.

    128 teams is not an unmanageable crowd.
    Assuming all matches extend to three games, and assuming every match takes an hour of court-time, that's 127 hours for a draw with 128 teams.

    With four courts, that's three weekends for the run-up.
    The last weekend is for the semifinal and the final

  17. #17
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Just my 4 sens..

    ..since this is the first time this type of tourney will be held (that i know of), and no system/format is in any way perfect and we don't know how and to what extent it will be effective, i think the best way to gauge its effectiveness is to just devise an acceptable format/system and let it run, first.
    For one, there are many unknown/unpredictable variables and circumstances.
    After the conclusion of the tourney, we can nit-pick and improve the system/format for the next tourney.
    There's always going to be good & bad.

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