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  1. #103
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    Watched Hayom vs CL.

    Seems to me he is too passive/too relaxed in style (in sharp contrast with CL). Almost never "up the pace", never take half chances. His style is against the trend in MS -- more emphasis on the ability to "up the pace" -- as it is getting harder and harder to win a rally by good placement alone.

    If he wants to be big, I think he should be more aggressive or maybe strengthen his legs. Learn from TH, who won all his major titles by endless smash-rush to net-smash-rush to net..., not be tricky shots and accurate placements.

  2. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    Watched Hayom vs CL.

    Seems to me he is too passive/too relaxed in style (in sharp contrast with CL). Almost never "up the pace", never take half chances. His style is against the trend in MS -- more emphasis on the ability to "up the pace" -- as it is getting harder and harder to win a rally by good placement alone.

    If he wants to be big, I think he should be more aggressive or maybe strengthen his legs. Learn from TH, who won all his major titles by endless smash-rush to net-smash-rush to net..., not be tricky shots and accurate placements.
    Actually he is very aggressive....
    you just see from one match... he is quite quick... maybe he is one of the quickest...

    CL has a good tctic so he can made hayom not to use his speed and smash...

  3. #105
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    He has great smashes. But that doesn't mean he is aggressive... Let me put it this way, his shots (smashes, drives, etc) are quite aggressive and powerful, his net play is good enough, but his feet is a bit "lazy" comparing to top players. During many rallies CL were hitting the shuttle in awkward ways but Hayom didn't take chances and allowed CL to recover.

    Nowadays, good shots alone is far from enough, you have to have "quick feet" to follow your shots. Look at Simon Santoso playing PG. When SS can "rush to the net", PG is in big big trouble. But when SS slowed down a bit, PG dominates.

    If Hayom is indeed "one of the quickest", he must be in quite bad form during the Swiss Open. Since his movement was far less agile than even SDK or SS, not to say LCW or LD.

    Of course, maybe it's because he is much less experienced than those people and thus had difficulty reading opponents' shots. Let's wait and see.

    Quote Originally Posted by fathonezic View Post
    Actually he is very aggressive....
    you just see from one match... he is quite quick... maybe he is one of the quickest...

    CL has a good tctic so he can made hayom not to use his speed and smash...
    Last edited by ye333; 03-22-2010 at 01:00 PM.

  4. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    Seems to me he is too passive/too relaxed in style (in sharp contrast with CL). Almost never "up the pace", never take half chances. His style is against the trend in MS -- more emphasis on the ability to "up the pace" -- as it is getting harder and harder to win a rally by good placement alone.

    If he wants to be big, I think he should be more aggressive or maybe strengthen his legs. Learn from TH, who won all his major titles by endless smash-rush to net-smash-rush to net..., not be tricky shots and accurate placements.
    This is pretty much how I saw him at the AE - Beef up a bit, be more confident.

    He creates chances & openings, but seems not to have the mentality to attack and "Win" points, and lacks the strength to hang in there in defence.

    It may be too early to tell if he is the next big thing - Some come on the scene full of confidence & get the big reults (eg CJ,BCL), then go on the wane. Others are more cautious when exposed to the big time, but grow into it (eg LD)
    Last edited by jamesd20; 03-22-2010 at 06:11 PM.

  5. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    Look at Simon Santoso playing PG. When SS can "rush to the net", PG is in big big trouble. But when SS slowed down a bit, PG dominates.
    there are two ways to beat people - technically, through strokeplay & placement & through speed. SS isn't good enough to beat Gade at technical, so beats him (or not) through speed.

  6. #108
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    I think Hayom should listen to these BC good inputs hehehe.
    If someone know him, let him informed about these. So our Hayom could be our next star.
    Btw, CL is younger than Hayom, but he's more experienced and more tactical, Hayom must speed up to cover and fix his so-called weakness.

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    Nowadays it seems harder and harder to beat people in the former way... Players ability to get out of trouble increased considerably during the past 30 years. 20-30 years ago even top players cannot do much with a low backhand, totally different nowadays.

    So IMHO nowadays speed weighs more than placement.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    there are two ways to beat people - technically, through strokeplay & placement & through speed. SS isn't good enough to beat Gade at technical, so beats him (or not) through speed.

  8. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    Nowadays it seems harder and harder to beat people in the former way... Players ability to get out of trouble increased considerably during the past 30 years. 20-30 years ago even top players cannot do much with a low backhand, totally different nowadays.

    So IMHO nowadays speed weighs more than placement.
    Yes I agree, Physical training has become much more advanced than 30yrs ago & with the developmet of racket & string technology speed & power have come to the fore much more.

    Likewise even 30yrs ago you couldn't win without still being a superb athlete. It is just the balance that has switched.

    Finally it is also worth mentioning that at "our" level (and by that I make a rash generalisation that BF members are a lot lower level than the professional game) Technical ability is by far the most important level. The higer the level of your play, the more Physical ability comes into play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    Of course, maybe it's because he is much less experienced than those people and thus had difficulty reading opponents' shots. Let's wait and see.
    or maybe rumba was coached the way to play the more seasoned pros is to not fear his opponent's persona, like, he must see as tho BCL playing with underwear on. Thus, rumba lost because he overplayed this 'don't fear him advice' Hey, it's just one of many theory

    case study
    don't think my advice is to ridicule anyone. Look at ALL chinese players before 2007, having hard time with taufik. Before, chinese MS has this fear of 'what to do with the magician taufik, the olympic champ'. Once that overblown fear is subsided, chinese players came around.
    Last edited by cooler; 03-26-2010 at 01:52 PM.

  10. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    case study
    don't think my advice is to ridicule anyone. Look at ALL chinese players before 2007, having hard time with taufik. Before, chinese MS has this fear of 'what to do with the magician taufik, the olympic champ'. Once that overblown fear is subsided, chinese players came around.
    Mmm, or maybe taufik just eased off the gas? I didn't see XXZ struggling against TH too much pre OG 2004 for example. I think we must admit that for OG2004 TH had his moment of genius.


    I agree with Rubaka maybe being apprehensive, or even too confident - The only thing that will show us is time - will he develop into a confident & focussed machine (Eg Lin Dan) or shrivel into a shell of trick shots and laid back play (Like for example Sairul Ayob). Nb I am not saying Rumbaka will be another LD - it is just an example.

  11. #113
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    That's right. And the Chinese players selflessly taught their tricks to LCW and more recently to Yamada (maybe the Ukranian guy too).

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    case study
    don't think my advice is to ridicule anyone. Look at ALL chinese players before 2007, having hard time with taufik. Before, chinese MS has this fear of 'what to do with the magician taufik, the olympic champ'. Once that overblown fear is subsided, chinese players came around.

  12. #114
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    Totally totally agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    Finally it is also worth mentioning that at "our" level (and by that I make a rash generalisation that BF members are a lot lower level than the professional game) Technical ability is by far the most important level. The higer the level of your play, the more Physical ability comes into play.

  13. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    I agree with Rubaka maybe being apprehensive, or even too confident - The only thing that will show us is time - will he develop into a confident & focussed machine (Eg Lin Dan) or shrivel into a shell of trick shots and laid back play (Like for example Sairul Ayob). Nb I am not saying Rumbaka will be another LD - it is just an example.
    I guess Hayom's most unsolved weakness yet is his over confident or underestimate his opponents. One of this example was his lost at 2007 at first round Philipine Open to Spanish player. He probably over confident with his technique that made him a lazy footwork-er. However, when his opponent could answer his technical wise shots, he didn't have better idea to overcome the situation

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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    That's right. And the Chinese players selflessly taught their tricks to LCW and more recently to Yamada (maybe the Ukranian guy too).
    hmmm, r u saying lcw and TH are slow learners because they seem to have difficulty beating LD

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    No. What I am saying is the Chinese players must have taught LCW how to beat TH, since the 2 or 3 worst losses TH suffered are to LCW.

    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    hmmm, r u saying lcw and TH are slow learners because they seem to have difficulty beating LD

  16. #118
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    Well... If that's the case (Hayom is over-confident), that shows the level of Indonesian youngesters... Such confidence has to be from lack of real competition when this guy is a teenager.

    Quote Originally Posted by naistav View Post
    I guess Hayom's most unsolved weakness yet is his over confident or underestimate his opponents. One of this example was his lost at 2007 at first round Philipine Open to Spanish player. He probably over confident with his technique that made him a lazy footwork-er. However, when his opponent could answer his technical wise shots, he didn't have better idea to overcome the situation

  17. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    Well... If that's the case (Hayom is over-confident), that shows the level of Indonesian youngesters... Such confidence has to be from lack of real competition when this guy is a teenager.
    Agreed. Likewise, could be a reason why BCL or CJ sem to lack confidence in themselvs sometimes - How can you believe you are a world beater when players in your own team can beat you.

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