usa or canada?

**gamepurpose** · 08-01-2009, 03:10 AM

I'm just wondering that if canada badminton players able to beat usa?
xd, ms, ws, md, and wd

anyone would know?

**event** · 08-01-2009, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by gamepurpose

I'm just wondering that if canada badminton players able to beat usa?
xd, ms, ws, md, and wd

anyone would know?

Check some results:
2007 Pan Am Games
2007 Pan Am Badminton Championships
2008 U.S. Open
2008 Thomas Cup Pan Am Regionals
2008 Uber Cup Pan Am Regionals
2009 U.S. Open

All of these tournaments had a good array of Canada-U.S. matches.

**cooler** · 08-02-2009, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by event

Check some results:
2007 Pan Am Games
2007 Pan Am Badminton Championships
2008 U.S. Open
2008 Thomas Cup Pan Am Regionals
2008 Uber Cup Pan Am Regionals
2009 U.S. Open

All of these tournaments had a good array of Canada-U.S. matches.

a very good summary Event

**narnia** · 08-03-2009, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by event

Check some results:
2007 Pan Am Games
2007 Pan Am Badminton Championships
2008 U.S. Open
2008 Thomas Cup Pan Am Regionals
2008 Uber Cup Pan Am Regionals
2009 U.S. Open

All of these tournaments had a good array of Canada-U.S. matches.

Looks CANADA beats USA mostly. There's only one strong player in USA: Howard Bach. (Tony Gunawan still in pending in his citizenship application.)

**Wong8Egg** · 08-03-2009, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by narnia

Looks CANADA beats USA mostly. There's only one strong player in USA: Howard Bach. (Tony Gunawan still in pending in his citizenship application.)

That's right. Canada is stronger in all events except MD.

Bach is quite exceptional for his achievement (although mostly with the help from Tony).

**2cents** · 08-03-2009, 02:53 PM

Well I believe the states stronger. Let's look at each individual event:

MS: Canada is stronger, basically US doesn't have any decent MS
MD: the US is stronger with howard bach
WS: the US is stronger with lily zhou and eva lee, although anna rice is catching up.
WD: the US is stronger with eva lee
XD: the US is stronger with bach and lee

In fact, most players representing Canada and the US are all Chinese immigrants from either mainland China or south eastern asian countries. Therefore the competition between two countries badminton is a competition of their immigration policy and immigration capacity.

**Wong8Egg** · 08-03-2009, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by 2cents

Well I believe the states stronger. Let's look at each individual event:

MS: Canada is stronger, basically US doesn't have any decent MS
MD: the US is stronger with howard bach
WS: the US is stronger with lily zhou and eva lee, although anna rice is catching up.
WD: the US is stronger with eva lee
XD: the US is stronger with bach and lee

In fact, most players representing Canada and the US are all Chinese immigrants from either mainland China or south eastern asian countries. Therefore the competition between two countries badminton is a competition of their immigration policy and immigration capacity.

Are you sure about that? I think Rice have beat Eva in many occasions. Including OG.

Bach is very outstanding indeed, but the USA team is relatively weak without him. Canada has much more depth in each department, even without the imports.

**2cents** · 08-03-2009, 03:37 PM

I think Anna and Eva at the same level now, I said Anna is up and comming, while Eva was dominating 5 years ago.

I forgot another important difference between America and Canada: there are many local Canadians like Anna Rice, Andrew Dabeka, Bobby Milroy,... who are really interested in becoming professional players, while in the US, there are few such local Americans doing that. Those local people are interested in singles only, it's difficult for local people to play doubles professionally because of the financial situation, persona and interest problems. While immigrants like Eva Lee, Lily Zhou, Howard Bach ... are playing for different purposes and interests, therefore, that can explain why those local people are stronger in singles, and immigrants are stronger in doubles, and also why Canada is stronger in singles, but week in doubles.

**ctjcad** · 08-03-2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Wong8Egg

That's right. Canada is stronger in all events except MD.

Bach is quite exceptional for his achievement (although mostly with the help from Tony).

Originally Posted by Wong8Egg

Are you sure about that? I think Rice have beat Eva in many occasions. Including OG.

Bach is very outstanding indeed, but the USA team is relatively weak without him. Canada has much more depth in each department, even without the imports.

- I'd say Canada is more evenly balanced in all events. Esp. now that they've added foreign born players/ex-national players.
- I concur abt Bach being successful with Tony G. But then, who wouldn't be successful playing with Tony.

- Yes, i think Rice has a better head to head record.
- Canada overall has the depth, esp. the younger players. The U.S.' best players, most of them imports, are already in the late 20s or in the 30s.
Canada has now added a WD pairing of Jiang XL and her WD partner. Prior to them arriving in Canada, the U.S. main WD players are ex-national players from China & Korea; Grace Peng, Johanna Lee (playing singles as well).
- Canada now has added another ex-INA player in Jo Novita who could be competing in local tourneys or even next yr's U.S. Open.

Originally Posted by 2cents

Well I believe the states stronger. Let's look at each individual event:
...

Originally Posted by 2cents

...I forgot another important difference between America and Canada: there are many local Canadians like Anna Rice, Andrew Dabeka, Bobby Milroy,... who are really interested in becoming professional players, while in the US, there are few such local Americans doing that.
...

..overall, yes, the U.S. is stronger in terms of talent. U.S. is strong in their MD, XD and maybe WS (with Lili Zhou, but she recently lost to Michelle Li, a youngster from Canada, in the U.S. Open). But most of the U.S. best players consist of imports/foreign born players who are ex-nationals from other countries.
Canada wins with their own home-grown local talents.

**event** · 08-03-2009, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by 2cents

Well I believe the states stronger. Let's look at each individual event:

MS: Canada is stronger, basically US doesn't have any decent MS
MD: the US is stronger with howard bach
WS: the US is stronger with lily zhou and eva lee, although anna rice is catching up.
WD: the US is stronger with eva lee
XD: the US is stronger with bach and lee

In fact, most players representing Canada and the US are all Chinese immigrants from either mainland China or south eastern asian countries. Therefore the competition between two countries badminton is a competition of their immigration policy and immigration capacity.

Keep in mind that Lily Zhou was most recently beaten by 17-year-old Michelle Li (oops. Just realized ctjcad beat me to that). Also, while you are right about certain players such as Zhou, Gunawan or Jiang Xuelian, many immigrant players, such as Howard Bach, Khan "Bob" Malaythong, and Michelle Li, (possibly Eva too?) moved to North America very young and all their training was done there. Howard Bach moved to the U.S. at age 8. Even if a nation suddenly decided to let in lots of 8-year-olds from Vietnam, that kind of immigration policy wouldn't be what is creating the badminton champions.

**cooler** · 08-03-2009, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by 2cents

Well I believe the states stronger. Let's look at each individual event:

MS: Canada is stronger, basically US doesn't have any decent MS
MD: the US is stronger with howard bach
WS: the US is stronger with lily zhou and eva lee, although anna rice is catching up.
WD: the US is stronger with eva lee
XD: the US is stronger with bach and lee

In fact, most players representing Canada and the US are all Chinese immigrants from either mainland China or south eastern asian countries. Therefore the competition between two countries badminton is a competition of their immigration policy and immigration capacity.

lol.
MD: US is stronger because of tony G.
On head to head between CAN (milroy and beres) and US (bach and Malaythong )are pretty even in MD without tony G. However, one must remember that milroy and beres have peaked 5-8 years ago. They are 30-35 years old and don't train anymore while howard and bob M. continue to train.

XD: same story, both mike beres and bob milroy have passed their prime but they compete just for fun.

Most of CAN nationals are local talents except just recently where we are seeing more new bloods from imports. Most immigrants headed for US first as US were blessed with tony G, halim H, Mona S. We (CAN) got KDM and Ra and Ardy W. but unfortunately they wish not to compete.

WS: Anna rice catching up? the 08 OG told a different story.

WD: i think mona S. is way stronger here than eva lee.

generally speaking, all CAN local greats are retiring or on the verge of retiring. It take time for the next batch to pick things up for us. Meanwhile, US has the imports filling the void while their locals being trained by these imports

**cooler** · 08-03-2009, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by 2cents

I think Anna and Eva at the same level now, I said Anna is up and comming, while Eva was dominating 5 years ago.

I forgot another important difference between America and Canada: there are many local Canadians like Anna Rice, Andrew Dabeka, Bobby Milroy,... who are really interested in becoming professional players, while in the US, there are few such local Americans doing that. Those local people are interested in singles only, it's difficult for local people to play doubles professionally because of the financial situation, persona and interest problems. While immigrants like Eva Lee, Lily Zhou, Howard Bach ... are playing for different purposes and interests, therefore, that can explain why those local people are stronger in singles, and immigrants are stronger in doubles, and also why Canada is stronger in singles, but week in doubles.

u think CAN locals don't have difficulty too?
bob milroy and mike beres played and competed successfully in MS, MD and XD. That is alot to ask for from a player. CAN is weak in MD? if u count the time before tony G. went to the US, i think bob milroy and mike beres did quite well in Pan Am and lower stars international tournaments

**madbad** · 08-03-2009, 08:26 PM

... what cooler said.

Plus Anna Rice is definitely NOT up and coming. She's as good as she'll get.

I'm encouraged with our (Canadian) young batch of talent although they need much more exposure outside of North America. There is a certain limit to what you can gain by playing here. Unfortunately it comes down to money again and Badminton Canada has limited resources.

**cooler** · 08-03-2009, 09:51 PM

bobby milroy did that
http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...5&postcount=10

**arowana** · 08-03-2009, 09:53 PM

not sure about it, but looking from outside Canada looks like having a kind of system or structure. can anybody confirm? on the other side US badminton looks like pure selftrained, recreational-style players mixed with retired asian professionals in recreational mode. Exception is Tony Gunawan.

agree Anna Rice is not a finesse player, but from what i´ve seen from ctjcad´s yutube recordings of US Open, US women single is a joke.

just my opinion.

**RedShuttle** · 08-03-2009, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by madbad

... what cooler said.

Plus Anna Rice is definitely NOT up and coming. She's as good as she'll get.

...

Yup. Anna is a pretty solid player but does not have the speed and power to contend with the big guns. Now that she moves back to Canada, let's hope that she will help to better promote the game in North America.

**cooler** · 08-03-2009, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by arowana

not sure about it, but looking from outside Canada looks like having a kind of system or structure. can anybody confirm? on the other side US badminton looks like pure selftrained, recreational-style players mixed with retired asian professionals in recreational mode. Exception is Tony Gunawan.

agree Anna Rice is not a finesse player, but from what i´ve seen from ctjcad´s yutube recordings of US Open, US women single is a joke.

just my opinion.

yes, canada use to have a pretty good system. (Canada was one of the original founding member of IBF). I remembered there are always 1 to 2 top MS training and competing close to fulltime. Some were:
Ken Poole
wang wen (import)
jamie dawson
ian sidie
brian abra
mike beres
bobby milroy
stephan Wojcikiewicz
Andrew Dabeka
now david snider

it is harder to excel in doubles because of dedication and $$$.
ie. will u risk your commitment and limited resources on your partner having the same or more commitment and $$$? If u excel in MS, at least u can do pretty good in doubles as well or go into doubles in later years.