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  1. #35
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    Men it's the 2nd game that's impressive...

    The only players who "toyed" Persson are LD and LCW, I don't think they need 3 games to beat Zwiebler.

    Anyway, Simon Santoso is on your side. I am very curious how did Simon manage to beat Tago so easily. Hope there will be video of this match available.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..okay, just saw the 1st game video (skipped the 2nd one). Personally, i thought neither player showed any brilliant plays. Zwiebler definitely was making more unforced errors in the 1st game. Maybe he was rushing it a bit or wasn't able to play to his tempo. On the other hand, Kenichi was moving so fast, Marc probably didn't know what to do in a few of those rallies.
    As for Kenichi, I'll give him a star for his very good footwork and court coverage. If not mistaken, i only saw him do 4-5 backhand shots in the entire 1st game. The rest he was able to cover them with his over-the-head shot. Other than his very good footwork, his strokes are your usual variety.
    Overall, i still wasn't surprised with the result.

    The next time they play against each other, i'd expect Zwiebler to put on a better performance.

    - Theres a reason for their seeding numbers, right?
    - Personally, I rate Persson as higher than Zwiebler.
    - If Tago can beat Persson in a tough 3-gamer, then it wouldnt surprise me if he beat/toyed Zwiebler rather easily.
    - Many also were able to toy with Persson and many had a tough 3-gamer vs. Zwiebler; just depends who their opponents were.

    Btw, we're still waiting for one of the mods or kwun to merge the 2 threads together..

  2. #36
    Regular Member volcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ctjcad
    ..have i been biased in my (past) reviews or posts??..
    Btw, meant to write "Around-the-head" shot not "Over-the-head" shot
    I don't mean to directed at you, I mean when some obvious fans give anlaysis or those fans that try to hide their biases.
    Just to clarify things

  3. #37
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    he lost quite easily to ss from ina just now..i wonder what happen to him just now?

  4. #38
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    Tago kun still young... hopefully he will do wel in the next tournament..

  5. #39
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    Men it's the 2nd game that's impressive...

    The only players who "toyed" Persson are LD and LCW, I don't think they need 3 games to beat Zwiebler.

    Anyway, Simon Santoso is on your side. I am very curious how did Simon manage to beat Tago so easily. Hope there will be video of this match available.
    - I will try to watch the 2nd game later...Personally, i won't be overly surprised.
    - Are you sure LD & LCW are the only players who've "toyed" with Persson??
    Of course LD and LCW don't need 3 games to beat Zwiebler. But then, Zwiebler had lost in 2 games to other players before.
    - I don't really care much abt Simon's result vs. Kenichi. It shows it depends on who is your opponent. So, don't go overly ga-ga-ga with Kenichi's results in the first 2 rounds of the WC.
    Quote Originally Posted by volcom View Post
    I don't mean to directed at you, I mean when some obvious fans give anlaysis or those fans that try to hide their biases.
    Just to clarify things
    ..you know my views have been 100% unbiased all the time.......okay, maybe 99.999999% of the time..

  6. #40
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    I guess we have different definitions of "toy" as a verb... To me, to qualify, you need to make your opponent look very very awkward throughout the match/game. In other words, you need to make your opponent look lower than his actual level. Another way of saying it: You need to be able to make unexperienced observers say: "Hey, I can beat that guy too!".

    An example: ZJH "toyed" Joko in 1990 AE final; (Reason: Joko, a world class player, looked like an amateur)

    A counterexample: LD didn't "toy" LCW in the 2008 OG final. (Reason: LCW actually looked like a top player, it's just that LD played like superman)

    As far as I can remember, only LD and LCW have ever made Persson look very awkward throughout a whole match.
    [quote=ctjcad;1229253- Are you sure LD & LCW are the only players who've "toyed" with Persson??[/quote]
    Last edited by ye333; 08-13-2009 at 01:55 PM.

  7. #41
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default There's no difference..

    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    I guess we have different definitions of "toy" as a verb... To me, to qualify, you need to make your opponent look very very awkward throughout the match/game. In other words, you need to make your opponent look lower than his actual level. Another way of saying it: You need to be able to make unexperienced observers say: "Hey, I can beat that guy too!".

    An example: ZJH "toyed" Joko in 1990 AE final; (Reason: Joko, a world class player, looked like an amateur)

    A counterexample: LD didn't "toy" LCW in the 2008 OG final. (Reason: LCW actually looked like a top player, it's just that LD played like superman)

    As far as I can remember, only LD and LCW have ever made Persson look very awkward throughout a whole match.
    - I would define the same also. What's more important is the scoreboard/how many games the match ends in. After all, isn't that proof enough of how one "toyed" with his/her opponent?? So, no, my definition is the same as yours.
    - How many games did ZJH beat Joko in?? Of course, that was using the OSS.
    - IMO, LD "toyed" with LCW in last yr's OG. I mean just look at the scoreboard. It doesn't matter if LD "played like superman", the fact is, LCW looked lost and awkward. Don't you think LD made LCW "look lower than his actual level" in last yr's OG?? Didn't you think "Hey, i can beat LCW, too??" For me, he did.
    - Are you sure only LD & LCW are the only ones who have ever made Persson look very awkward throughout the whole match?? You never seen Taufik toyed with Persson before??..I bet they can do the same against Zwiebler..
    - Again, if you want to discuss abt this player "toying" with that player, it depends also on who is the opponent. Another example, yes, i would say Simon "toyed" with Kenichi. But then again, i could care less.

    Anyway, we are getting off the original topic of this thread (bringing up examples abt LD vs. LCW etc.)...
    Last edited by ctjcad; 08-13-2009 at 02:40 PM.

  8. #42
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    Honestly, No. I don't think LD made LCW "look lower than his actual level". He moved at his normal speed, his shots are of his normal quality, and so on. He looked totally normal to me (ya ya, a little bit nervous, I know I know ).

    And I definitely didn't think I can beat LCW too.

    Anyway, what's important is that Simon Santoso beat the hell out of Kenichi Tago, "toyed" or not, not much difference...

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    Don't you think LD made LCW "look lower than his actual level" in last yr's OG?? Didn't you think "Hey, i can beat LCW, too??" For me, he did.
    - Are you sure only LD & LCW are the only ones who have ever made Persson look very awkward throughout the whole match?? You never seen Taufik toyed with Persson before??..I bet they can do the same against Zwiebler..
    - Again, if you want to discuss abt this player "toying" with that player, it depends also on who is the opponent. Another example, yes, i would say Simon "toyed" with Kenichi. But then again, i could care less.

    Anyway, we are getting off the original topic of this thread (bringing up examples abt LD vs. LCW etc.)...

  9. #43
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default ^^What was the scoreboard in Simon Santoso vs. Kenichi Tago's match??..^^

    ..if the score in that match doesn't indicate Simon "toyed" with Kenichi, then i don't know what is (is there a video??)...Was Kenichi fatigued??..

    I watched the 2nd game of Tago vs. Zwiebler's match and i'm still not surprised with the result...Tago was defo 1.5 level above Zwiebler & .5 level above Persson..
    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    ..
    An example: ZJH "toyed" Joko in 1990 AE final; (Reason: Joko, a world class player, looked like an amateur)

    A counterexample: LD didn't "toy" LCW in the 2008 OG final. (Reason: LCW actually looked like a top player, it's just that LD played like superman)
    ...
    ..i could also re-phrase it the other way:
    An example: ZJH "toyed" Joko in 1990 AE final; (Reason: Joko, actually looked like a top player, it's just that ZJH played like superman)

    A counterexample: LD didn't "toy" LCW in the 2008 OG final. (Reason: LCW, a world class player, looked like an amateur)...a little bit nervous or not..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 08-13-2009 at 05:03 PM.

  10. #44
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    so,the toy term just apply on the way they look?not score?

  11. #45
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default ^^It applies..^^

    ...to how a player plays against his/her opponent; with ease or a struggle. The scoreboard is a good indicator of how a player "toys" with his/her opponent.

  12. #46
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    this Joachim pearson is not consistent i could say. remember he manage to beat taufik hidayat in the japan open last year

    his form is just like yoyo

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    i read in newspaper saying thatt her mum was ex-badminton player..HEr mum used to be runner up in AE n world championship but i dun remember the year and event she had participated..HEr mum was KEnichi's inspiration to do well in this wc

  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by isaura View Post
    i read in newspaper saying thatt her mum was ex-badminton player..HEr mum used to be runner up in AE n world championship but i dun remember the year and event she had participated..HEr mum was KEnichi's inspiration to do well in this wc
    Her mum was 1977 WC Champion but I dont know her name....

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    Well he still have a long way to go before he can be consider as a force to be recon with. Saw his match in the WC and I must say his speed is still not up to par with the good players and by good players I am not even refering to the speed king like Lindan and LCW.

    Second, he uses his wrist to smash a lot rather than going for the full force of mid body power + arms. That makes his smashes rather inefficient.

  16. #50
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    I am confused. Persson is a top 10 player. If Tago is 0.5 level above him, Tago should be around the same level as CJ, PG, or TH. Is that what you mean?

    Finally watched the match (thanks badmintonfreak.com!). I would say Simon won easily due to experience. The young man Tago just lost focus after Simon varied pace a little, and is not fighting anymore. Is it fatigue? I don't know.

    Well... When you watch OG final, edit the birdie out. Edit LD out. Then tell me, did LCW move like an amateur? Did he reflex like an amateur? Did he perform shots like an amateur?

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..if the score in that match doesn't indicate Simon "toyed" with Kenichi, then i don't know what is (is there a video??)...Was Kenichi fatigued??..

    I watched the 2nd game of Tago vs. Zwiebler's match and i'm still not surprised with the result...Tago was defo 1.5 level above Zwiebler & .5 level above Persson..

    ..i could also re-phrase it the other way:
    An example: ZJH "toyed" Joko in 1990 AE final; (Reason: Joko, actually looked like a top player, it's just that ZJH played like superman)

    A counterexample: LD didn't "toy" LCW in the 2008 OG final. (Reason: LCW, a world class player, looked like an amateur)...a little bit nervous or not..

  17. #51
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Wink Tago, Tago, what have you done with ye333??...

    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    I am confused. Persson is a top 10 player. If Tago is 0.5 level above him, Tago should be around the same level as CJ, PG, or TH. Is that what you mean?

    Finally watched the match (thanks badmintonfreak.com!). I would say Simon won easily due to experience. The young man Tago just lost focus after Simon varied pace a little, and is not fighting anymore. Is it fatigue? I don't know.

    Well... When you watch OG final, edit the birdie out. Edit LD out. Then tell me, did LCW move like an amateur? Did he reflex like an amateur? Did he perform shots like an amateur?
    - Don't be confused. I would say Tago is not in the same level as CJ, PG & TH..yet. Those guys are at least 1 level above Persson. Thus, those guys' levels are a bit above Tago. Don't look into their rankings (top 10 etc.) too much.
    - I will watch it later. But i wouldn't be surprised w/what you described.
    - I can also do likewise with the 1990 AE Final: Edit ZJH out. Did Joko move like an amateur? Did he reflex like an amateur? Did he perform shots like an amateur?

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