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  1. #1
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    Default Will LCW achieved as great as LD at the end of their career?

    After retaining WR#1 for so many years, won 2 WCs in a row and OG last year, LD has reached a stage that he is no longer to prove anything to anyone.

    He decided to take a comparatively good rest, not care about WR#1, therefore missed so many competitions, not because he is not able to sustain good level of playing.

    To me, to certain extent, on one hand,
    - LD after 2008 OG is like TH after 2004 OG, achieved a big win, no more need to prove himself as the top player of the sport, and re-think about his career strategy, may switch and concentrate on major title competitions...
    - LCW after 2008 OG is like LD after 2004 OG, suffered a big set-back, keen to prove himself in the following years, want and need to win everything.

    on the other hand,
    - LD-after-2008 would not be like TH-after-2004, TH laxed a lot after 2004, lasks of training, more concentrate in his own private life, plus problems in his national team, and therefore no longer able to sustain his level of play consistently. LD is more determined in dedicating himself to badminton sport and therefore would not allow himself to lax (although he may play in fewer competitions but concentrate on major ones).
    - But I doubt LCW-after-2008 could be able to achieve the same achievements that LD-after-2004 was able to achieve between 2005 to 2008. He may be able to retain WR#1 for some time (as LD may not be interested to take it back by entering every competition to regain the WR points), may be able to take 1 o 2 of the major titles (amongst the 3 AEs, 3 WCs and 1 OG up to 2012 from now, SC and TC is too remote as he doesn't has a good enough national team, given that WC is now once every year).
    - And don't forget that as LD is determined to focus on major titles now, he would also win many (at lease 1 or 2, or even more) amongst these chances, And I further doubt LCW could be able to level his head-to-head record with LD given that LD would be subject to less fatigue and injury problems by entering fewer competitions, although LCW for sure could beat LD once or twice a year, like every year in the past.

    However, personally I really and hugely doubt at the end of their career, as an ultimate judgement on their overall achievements, LCW would be as great as LD as many LCW fans like to claim....

    so what's your view?... maybe we should set up a poll..

  2. #2
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default His window of opportunity..

    ..IMO, is gonna be til the 2012 OG.
    He has every chance & opportunity to bag the 3 biggest individual major titles: WC, AE & Olympics, in the next several yrs.

    If i'm his manager, this is what i would tell him:
    If he can bag the WC this yr. or next yr. and the AE next yr., then he can have a slow 2011 and really use that 1+ yr. to prepare himself well for the 2012 OG.
    I think that should be his main focus from here on out. To an extent, he should forget abt winning all the SS or GP Gold titles or keeping his WR #1but instead focus on winning the 3 major individual titles. As an added bonus, he wins any of those titles, he will get even more rewards from BAM and the govt.
    Last edited by ctjcad; 08-14-2009 at 02:23 AM.

  3. #3
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    By theory, LCW still has some chances mathmatically. However, with his current pace, it's going to be a very hard task.

    1. Need to take the titles which count, such as WC, AE and OG.

    2. Even if taking all 3, need to get a significant period (a few years) of consistent dominance. That means, get to semi final or beyond on almost every event he ever participate.


    Judging from LCW's history of performance, I will say #2 is even harder to achive than #1.

  4. #4
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    One with all major championships in hand.

    One with no even 1 major championship in hand.

    Can DLCW achieved as great as LD?

    My answer is -- NO.

  5. #5
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    Datuk Lee has a Datuk a title that Lin Dan can never win unless LD can dance like Shah Rukh khan...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SibugiChai View Post
    Datuk Lee has a Datuk a title that Lin Dan can never win unless LD can dance like Shah Rukh khan...
    that datuk title is useless outside malaysia, furthermore why do LD need the datuk title in china?

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    As much as I hate to say this...I think LCW don't have the chance anymore. His a great player that I have always supported but there seems to be a barrier that he can't break that he usually face in the major competition. That makes me sad...Nevertheless, I like his style of play and his determination.

  8. #8
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    One major difference between LD and TH: TH has the chance to marry into politics while LD doesn't. Even if LD has the chance, currently there doesn't seem to be any good-looking princesses around in China.

    Back to LCW. I hope he can pull himself together and fight for next year's AE, WC, and AG. Otherwise he will be the first long-time World No.1 without ANY major title.

    Honestly speaking, I think LCW will start to go downhill after either this year or next.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonc108 View Post
    After retaining WR#1 for so many years, won 2 WCs in a row and OG last year, LD has reached a stage that he is no longer to prove anything to anyone.

    He decided to take a comparatively good rest, not care about WR#1, therefore missed so many competitions, not because he is not able to sustain good level of playing.

    To me, to certain extent, on one hand,
    - LD after 2008 OG is like TH after 2004 OG, achieved a big win, no more need to prove himself as the top player of the sport, and re-think about his career strategy, may switch and concentrate on major title competitions...
    - LCW after 2008 OG is like LD after 2004 OG, suffered a big set-back, keen to prove himself in the following years, want and need to win everything.

    on the other hand,
    - LD-after-2008 would not be like TH-after-2004, TH laxed a lot after 2004, lasks of training, more concentrate in his own private life, plus problems in his national team, and therefore no longer able to sustain his level of play consistently. LD is more determined in dedicating himself to badminton sport and therefore would not allow himself to lax (although he may play in fewer competitions but concentrate on major ones).
    - But I doubt LCW-after-2008 could be able to achieve the same achievements that LD-after-2004 was able to achieve between 2005 to 2008. He may be able to retain WR#1 for some time (as LD may not be interested to take it back by entering every competition to regain the WR points), may be able to take 1 o 2 of the major titles (amongst the 3 AEs, 3 WCs and 1 OG up to 2012 from now, SC and TC is too remote as he doesn't has a good enough national team, given that WC is now once every year).
    - And don't forget that as LD is determined to focus on major titles now, he would also win many (at lease 1 or 2, or even more) amongst these chances, And I further doubt LCW could be able to level his head-to-head record with LD given that LD would be subject to less fatigue and injury problems by entering fewer competitions, although LCW for sure could beat LD once or twice a year, like every year in the past.

    However, personally I really and hugely doubt at the end of their career, as an ultimate judgement on their overall achievements, LCW would be as great as LD as many LCW fans like to claim....

    so what's your view?... maybe we should set up a poll..

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    One major difference between LD and TH: TH has the chance to marry into politics while LD doesn't. Even if LD has the chance, currently there doesn't seem to be any good-looking princesses around in China.

    Back to LCW. I hope he can pull himself together and fight for next year's AE, WC, and AG. Otherwise he will be the first long-time World No.1 without ANY major title.

    Honestly speaking, I think LCW will start to go downhill after either this year or next.
    sad but true..can't agree with you more

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zealous View Post
    As much as I hate to say this...I think LCW don't have the chance anymore. His a great player that I have always supported but there seems to be a barrier that he can't break that he usually face in the major competition. That makes me sad...Nevertheless, I like his style of play and his determination.
    +1 on this, i also like his style of play too. but after so many years and those defeats in big games, he still cant conquere his mental block during the big games. this is what is preventing him from winning his 1st big title, he cant take the big pressure. and no, he wont be able to match up to ld's achievements on the courts cos time is running out for lcw.

  11. #11
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    It is still possible but i think he will have a very hard time accomplshing it. If he keep playing at this pace by entering all tournaments, he might burn out. He should choose his battle wisely like entering SS events only and not Gold Grand Prix. Furthermore, he does not have the support team like Lin Dan in knocking out possible contenders for a title.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makunouchi View Post
    It is still possible but i think he will have a very hard time accomplshing it. If he keep playing at this pace by entering all tournaments, he might burn out. He should choose his battle wisely like entering SS events only and not Gold Grand Prix. Furthermore, he does not have the support team like Lin Dan in knocking out possible contenders for a title.
    this is what I like to point out continuously, he should start considering the way LD is not taking, enter competitions selectively and play quality competitions. Given that he already has the taste of WR#1, he should concentrate in getting 1 or 2 top titles (WC, OG or at least AE).

    People were talking about LCW sitting on WR#1 because of consistancy, but this only applies when compared with other players. If compared with LD, he only excells in quantity (play in more competitions) not quality (average performance in competitions entered).

    If you look at their points earned per competition (even though I don't really buy this ranking system), LD is the best (about 8677 point per competition out of 7, compared with LCW's 8477 per competition out of 10):

    facts tell...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Jonc108; 08-17-2009 at 01:15 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    thanks for all your hard work, jonc

  14. #14
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    NAHH, dont think so, Lin Dan is really great and getting better, while LCW errrr.... point is i dont think LCW can be better than LD, and thats why LD should deserve the WR#1 better than LCW

  15. #15
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    Default great player

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonc108 View Post
    After retaining WR#1 for so many years, won 2 WCs in a row and OG last year, LD has reached a stage that he is no longer to prove anything to anyone.

    He decided to take a comparatively good rest, not care about WR#1, therefore missed so many competitions, not because he is not able to sustain good level of playing.

    To me, to certain extent, on one hand,
    - LD after 2008 OG is like TH after 2004 OG, achieved a big win, no more need to prove himself as the top player of the sport, and re-think about his career strategy, may switch and concentrate on major title competitions...
    - LCW after 2008 OG is like LD after 2004 OG, suffered a big set-back, keen to prove himself in the following years, want and need to win everything.

    on the other hand,
    - LD-after-2008 would not be like TH-after-2004, TH laxed a lot after 2004, lasks of training, more concentrate in his own private life, plus problems in his national team, and therefore no longer able to sustain his level of play consistently. LD is more determined in dedicating himself to badminton sport and therefore would not allow himself to lax (although he may play in fewer competitions but concentrate on major ones).
    - But I doubt LCW-after-2008 could be able to achieve the same achievements that LD-after-2004 was able to achieve between 2005 to 2008. He may be able to retain WR#1 for some time (as LD may not be interested to take it back by entering every competition to regain the WR points), may be able to take 1 o 2 of the major titles (amongst the 3 AEs, 3 WCs and 1 OG up to 2012 from now, SC and TC is too remote as he doesn't has a good enough national team, given that WC is now once every year).
    - And don't forget that as LD is determined to focus on major titles now, he would also win many (at lease 1 or 2, or even more) amongst these chances, And I further doubt LCW could be able to level his head-to-head record with LD given that LD would be subject to less fatigue and injury problems by entering fewer competitions, although LCW for sure could beat LD once or twice a year, like every year in the past.

    However, personally I really and hugely doubt at the end of their career, as an ultimate judgement on their overall achievements, LCW would be as great as LD as many LCW fans like to claim....

    so what's your view?... maybe we should set up a poll..

    Jonc, I totally agreed with all your points, except one.
    2012 OG is a little too far for a player already 27 years old now. Even LD will find it tough in 2012 as CJ is maturing now and should be at his prime in 2012. So, I am sorry to say LCY have only very slim chance of conquering a OG title.
    TC may have a chance as Malaysia have 1 strong single and 2 strong double.

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