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  1. #18
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    YY will remain strong for many yrs to come. It has a vast die hard fan base world wide, some even consider it as "the" badminton racket. So it wont be so easy for any competitor to just walk in and take over the market share majority.

    Having said that, I believe YY heyday has ended or at least towards the end. The arrival of many very good companies (Li-Ning and Victor) and old competitors producing good stuffs (Carlton, RSL, Gosen, Mizuno and Wilson) as well as many2 local brands (Astec, Apacs, Flypower, etc) that produce very good products at marginal price, all eating YY big pies. Not to mention, tons of fake YY flooding Ebay which potentially costing YY a fortune.

    In the context of this thread, even though my fav racket is NS9900, IMO LN rackets are generally better than YY (personally I tried both N90 and N90II). I would disagree with the sentiment that LN has no extra edge (at first i was skeptical too), in fact there are many improvements (technologically based on R&D) that LN has introduced to their high end rackets and the result is great accurate precise feeling that YY sometimes lacks. Im sure for those who tried N series would know what i mean.

    In regards to LN marketing efforts, i have absolutely no objection to that whatsoever. Thats the only way for them to take on a giant like YY. A traditional marketing effort alone by going from local to local area just simply wont work in this situation. Imagine a sales person goes to you and say "hey this is a new racket better than YY and its cheap but no one is using it yet" I would bet 9 out of 10 people wont buy. LN is not alone on this, Victor and Flypower as well as Carlton and Forza are all doing the same road by sponsoring players and national teams. By doing this they can penetrate the market more effectively (cost and time).

    In regards to price money, it will increase overtime as more and more competition from manufacturers to host/sponsor big events. Its really important that badminton organizers (from BWF to the national/local associations) get their act to get the maximum benefit from the current competitions. Price money issue must be separated from sponsorship money, at all across other sports there is no major constraint about how much a sportsman can received. Its a free market, in fact i would argue that our current top players receive less than they deserve, and if they have to get it from sponsorship then so be it. At least for a start it will encourage many other youngsters to look at badminton as a career option. The main thing here is the promotion of badminton as whole, then we will naturally see the spread of popularity and public attention towards the sports which will lead to more sponsors from wide range of global companies (not just badminton related companies). If badminton can reach this level, we will be talking about a few million dollars price money on SS.
    Last edited by Yoppy; 05-16-2010 at 09:40 PM.

  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karakalkat View Post
    What new technology is Li Ning using??? None that I know of....There is only so much you can do making rackets...the quality of the carbon is the main thing...plus the design of the frame and shaft...What do they have that is different...??
    I am curious....Did they change the frames of the Kason...Not that I can see...At least with a Lambo you can see the difference...
    I assume you have not tried the rackets yourself :-) . The LN rackets are great, if they are "worth" their price is of course always up to the buyer to decide..

    Li-Ning took over Kason, but all LN rackets are developed (I think they made 3000+ prototypes just for national-team to try)..

    LN has some pretty unique tech (that Kason didnt have) Like the smart woven-tjoint to get rounbd YY-patented T-joint etc.. They are coming out with the hollow frame, the N-series use ligtweigth ype filling in the frame to reduce vibrations and lot of other stuff..

    I am not sure if you really have a clue about the technology L use? it seems you are just basing your views on "guessing" :-)

    Besides Kason did some really great rackets (and still produces their own models of rackets as far as i know), you make it sounds like Kason should be any "less" advanced than Karakal, WIlson, Dunlop, Tactic, Forza, Cqarlton etc ?!?!

    /Twobeer

  3. #20
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    Aherm, may I? LOL, but only companeis that starts at the second half of the alphabet ultimately be the winner(s) slicing the pie. Notice the letter Z is already occupied by zelm?

  4. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babyface View Post
    Will be going tp HK next month. im so tempted to try li ning, but am worried that its hype. Anyone know if HK have a shop selling li ning products?
    I believe rose sells them.

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyourK View Post
    I believe rose sells them.
    If may have noticed, babyface's post was dated august 26, 2009?

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    I assume you have not tried the rackets yourself :-) . The LN rackets are great, if they are "worth" their price is of course always up to the buyer to decide..

    Li-Ning took over Kason, but all LN rackets are developed (I think they made 3000+ prototypes just for national-team to try)..

    LN has some pretty unique tech (that Kason didnt have) Like the smart woven-tjoint to get rounbd YY-patented T-joint etc.. They are coming out with the hollow frame, the N-series use ligtweigth ype filling in the frame to reduce vibrations and lot of other stuff..

    I am not sure if you really have a clue about the technology L use? it seems you are just basing your views on "guessing" :-)

    Besides Kason did some really great rackets (and still produces their own models of rackets as far as i know), you make it sounds like Kason should be any "less" advanced than Karakal, WIlson, Dunlop, Tactic, Forza, Cqarlton etc ?!?!

    /Twobeer
    I dont make statements without testing product...My views are also only MY views and only for discussion...
    As far as I can gather from factory and published news there is no NEW technology in LiNing rackets....what you are talking about has already been done...

    I think it is great for LiNing to come into the market....It gives us a much needed player to compete and help Yonex to add tournaments sponsorship....what I dont agree with is the way they did it...by buying success....where the others have worked hard to develop their market over time and their success has come from real grass roots support....LiNing chose to buy instant success...

    One last thought
    So many times the racket that actually plays the best for normal players is the cheaper all carbon rackets with more flex...

  7. #24
    Regular Member ryim_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PyourK View Post
    I believe rose sells them.
    rose does not sell LN rackets...but other shops in MK and e78 do.

  8. #25
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    [quote=Karakalkat;1446564]

    ...I think it is great for LiNing to come into the market....It gives us a much needed player to compete and help Yonex to add tournaments sponsorship....what I dont agree with is the way they did it...by buying success....where the others have worked hard to develop their market over time and their success has come from real grass roots support....LiNing chose to buy instant success...

    quote]

    What do you mean by "to buy instant success..."??? You mean Li Ning pays customers to buy their products? Of course not. I at least, as some other of the consumers are willingly paying a higher price than YY's rackets to own Li Ning rackets, knowing the quality of its rackets are worth the money. Tell me which successful sport brand insists that its products can sell itself without sponsoring big names and do without massive marketing budget...NONE that is. Even German sporting powerhouse adidas began by sponsoring its own national soccer team, West Germany (now Germany) since 1954, that year when West Germany won the World Cup. You mean adidas also bought their success instantly back then in 1954?

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karakalkat View Post
    I think it is great for LiNing to come into the market....It gives us a much needed player to compete and help Yonex to add tournaments sponsorship....what I dont agree with is the way they did it...by buying success....where the others have worked hard to develop their market over time and their success has come from real grass roots support....LiNing chose to buy instant success...
    Thats because LN is smart enough to know that its the only way to have any chance competing with household name like YY. As I mentioned, at the end of the day its the most cost and time effective method. And to do it any other way would be a disaster.

    LN is not only doing it againts YY, in fact, badminton i believe is only a smaller portion of total LN source of income. The mains are from basketball and general sports wears. And they have to compete with Addidas and Nike with exactly the same approach.

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karakalkat View Post
    I dont make statements without testing product...My views are also only MY views and only for discussion...
    As far as I can gather from factory and published news there is no NEW technology in LiNing rackets....what you are talking about has already been done...
    Enlight me, what other makers has a woven t-joint like the 3D-braid in LN rackets..

    Are you saying the frame shape, shaft construction is identical to any other brands racket?

    How do you define racket techonolgy? Can you give an example with what racket you think is higly innovative?


    Quote Originally Posted by Karakalkat View Post
    I think it is great for LiNing to come into the market....It gives us a much needed player to compete and help Yonex to add tournaments sponsorship....what I dont agree with is the way they did it...by buying success....where the others have worked hard to develop their market over time and their success has come from real grass roots support....LiNing chose to buy instant success...
    I think you could not be further from the truth but you are free to be a religious man :-P

    I have talked to many people close to China national team, and the thing when LN entered badminton was not just about "just another business" it was also about national pride, and eagerness to show that they China these days feels they have the muscle to create BETTER rackets than anyone else.

    You don't create 3000+ prototyoes and does extensive testing and let National-team players be part of the design of their "named" rackets if you are just in it for a quick buck.. Then they could just have taken the Kason rackets and made Li Ning versions of them (But I guess in your screwed up microcosmos, that was what they did, and that is why I doubt you have really tried Kason rackets and Li Ning rackets yoiurself :-) )..

    From my perspective, I have no problem with your "personal" views about LN rackets...But it kind of seems like you are trying to trashtalk their rackets and racket-tech, and that seems pretty biased :-) . And I think it is always best to refer to models not generalise on brands as all brands have different rackets with different tech. etc..

    Maybe it just sounds more biased when you have a brand-name in your signature on BC

    Quote Originally Posted by Karakalkat View Post
    One last thought
    So many times the racket that actually plays the best for normal players is the cheaper all carbon rackets with more flex...
    Of course.. Most people can't handle an F1 car either.. and are better of using 18lbs than 36lbs string tension etc.. any more open doors to kick in?? :-P

    /T
    Last edited by twobeer; 05-18-2010 at 04:10 PM.

  11. #28
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    There's two ways to grow a business, either organically or through acquisitions. Growing organically is slower than buying a company outright but acquiring a company doesn't guarantee success, Just look at the IT industry where there's always acquisitions and you can see that alot of them are painful and does not yield the results they wanted.

    I have two Li Ning racquets (N55 and N90) and I must say that they are really very good racquets, on par if not better than the top end Yonex. I am not sure what technologies they put in but it works beautifully. Whether they are value for money, that's debatable.

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobeer View Post
    Enlight me, what other makers has a woven t-joint like the 3D-braid in LN rackets..

    Are you saying the frame shape, shaft construction is identical to any other brands racket?

    How do you define racket techonolgy? Can you give an example with what racket you think is higly innovative?




    I think you could not be further from the truth but you are free to be a religious man :-P

    I have talked to many people close to China national team, and the thing when LN entered badminton was not just about "just another business" it was also about national pride, and eagerness to show that they China these days feels they have the muscle to create BETTER rackets than anyone else.

    You don't create 3000+ prototyoes and does extensive testing and let National-team players be part of the design of their "named" rackets if you are just in it for a quick buck.. Then they could just have taken the Kason rackets and made Li Ning versions of them (But I guess in your screwed up microcosmos, that was what they did, and that is why I doubt you have really tried Kason rackets and Li Ning rackets yoiurself :-) )..

    From my perspective, I have no problem with your "personal" views about LN rackets...But it kind of seems like you are trying to trashtalk their rackets and racket-tech, and that seems pretty biased :-) . And I think it is always best to refer to models not generalise on brands as all brands have different rackets with different tech. etc..

    Maybe it just sounds more biased when you have a brand-name in your signature on BC



    Of course.. Most people can't handle an F1 car either.. and are better of using 18lbs than 36lbs string tension etc.. any more open doors to kick in?? :-P

    /T
    With over 2k post I guess you must spend more time reading BCF than playing badminton...
    Yes I am distributor for Karakal and Sotx and Sotx has tons more new technology than LiNing...but I am sure you have not tried them yourself or you would not need to complain of trash talk and bias because you would be aware of the technology...

    I have not degraded or trash talked LiNing....I simply state the fact about technology....When I pay that much money for a racket I want it to be something special....and I dont see anything special in LiNing...all good rackets have t joint and this is not new technology to use woven graphite carbon...Sotx has one model with titanium T-joint....Sotx has many "new" technologies being used in their rackets...Oversize frame, memory core wire, triple frame, too many to name them all...

    Check out their website to get enlightened on new technology in the market...

    Sotx CP series also has a patient which I have never seen on any other brand of racket...

    LiNing is not in competition with Adidas as this is part of their co-op...same as Kason and many others brands that they have made pacts with...

    In my "screwed up microcosmos" whatever that is, we have more badminton players than you have people in your whole country...

    I play everyday and am associated daily with badminton sales and testing and trying to see what the competition has to offer...Please dont assume anything about my ability to play test other brands of products...I would be silly to not try to know all I can about other brands...hearsay is not sufficient....

    I have no doubt that I could drive an F-1 car...but to drive it well is another story....rackets that play well for normal players are not the same as those preferred by the professional players...

    I never said LiNing was in it for the "fast buck"...You do not do the work they have done for a quick buck because there is no quick buck to be made...I would be surprised if their bottom line is in the black within the next 4-5 years....They are paying out a huge amount of sponsorship money....not to mention the tournaments sponsored...

    All in all I am glad LiNing has joined the badminton field...it is a boost for badminton...but their products are still overpriced as they must be for them
    to re-coop their investment...

  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karakalkat View Post
    Yes I am distributor for Karakal and Sotx and Sotx has tons more new technology than LiNing...but I am sure you have not tried them yourself or you would not need to complain of trash talk and bias because you would be aware of the technology...
    In that case, you should start a thread about SOTX products rather than discrediting LN here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karakalkat View Post
    I have not degraded or trash talked LiNing....I simply state the fact about technology....When I pay that much money for a racket I want it to be something special....and I dont see anything special in LiNing...
    I dont play baddy everyday like you, but i certainly do feel the extra quality. As for its price, everyone have different opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karakalkat View Post
    I have no doubt that I could drive an F-1 car...but to drive it well is another story....rackets that play well for normal players are not the same as those preferred by the professional players...
    So which one is the F-1? SOTX or LN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karakalkat View Post
    I never said LiNing was in it for the "fast buck"...You do not do the work they have done for a quick buck because there is no quick buck to be made...I would be surprised if their bottom line is in the black within the next 4-5 years....They are paying out a huge amount of sponsorship money....not to mention the tournaments sponsored......
    Why wait 4-5 yrs, with the marketing expenses the financial impact should hit immidiately within the current period. And I believe LN is in green since a long time until now, even with all big money going out for sponsors.
    Last edited by Yoppy; 05-19-2010 at 06:37 AM.

  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKChua View Post
    Never say never.

    As the DJ of BBC World News has mentioned, there are 300 million Chinese in China learning English. If BBC World News failed to influence them in the way they speak, the China Chinese will eventually change the way English is spoken.

    Similarly, consider the number of players in China playing badminton and using Li-Ning. If Li-Ning get the quality and price variables of the racket right on track, Yonex will start to sweat....
    1.No offence...We can't change the way English spoken...We are learning English, and we obey the rules to learn English...It's not Chinese...2 different languages...not the same...we should distinglish the differences, then to learn English...

    2.Li Ning is famous for its sneakers and cloths...Yonex is famous for its badminton rackets...And I don't think Li Ning's price is very good...I don't konw what's the price outside of China, but it's ¥300~400 more than Yonex(both first class rackets)...¥300 is the price of Victor Chanllenger...

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    Interesting comments but still no response on "new technology" in LiNing rackets...

    I dont feel that by stating simple fact that I have tried to discredit LiNing...After all, she was sponsored by Sotx originally...and has done a wonderful job of putting the LiNing label together...

    If you consider this to be discrediting them, so be it...

    Yonex has had to put up with really being hammered and for a much longer time...

  16. #33
    Regular Member Badmintan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karakalkat View Post
    If you consider this to be discrediting them, so be it...

    Yonex has had to put up with really being hammered and for a much longer time...
    On the other hand, if one can afford Li-Ning racquets, one can easily afford high-end Yonex racquets. So in a way, customers put off by Li-Ning's price (in spite of its branding) turn to Yonex. I'm one of them, wanted to try Li-Ning, but thinking about and comparing the racquets, I always opt for the latest Yonex high end racquets.

    If I'm a customer, I would weigh the pros and cons before opening my wallet and hand the money over.

    Li-Ning
    Pros
    Designed and customized for professionals like Lin Dan etc-best materials?
    China is a dominant Badminton force-(branding)

    Cons
    overprice
    desgined for pros-who are advanced players may not be suitable for the rest

  17. #34
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    There are also cheaper LN rackets (the NP, TP, UC and HC range), which many also find better and cheaper than YY. In this case, you would prefer LN, no?

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