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View Poll Results: What will be Kwun's newest camera for badminton photography?

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  • Canon 7D

    26 31.33%
  • Nikon D700

    16 19.28%
  • Micro 4/3rds camera

    2 2.41%
  • None of the above but it will be Nikon

    14 16.87%
  • None of the above but it will be Canon

    25 30.12%
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  1. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    regardless of whether there are merits in the u4/3 system or not, the biggest issues of the system right now is the availability of lenses.

    there are only a few u4/3 lenses in the market right now, and the prices are ridiculous.

    eg.

    Panasonic/Leica 25/1.4 - US$900
    Panasonic/Leica 45/2.8 macro - US$900
    Panasonic 20/1.7 - US$400
    Panasonic 14-45 - US$400

    the point of the system is to reduce size and material. then why do they cost so much? yes, i know, it is Leica blah blah blah. but i don't even need to pay so much for a lens. give us Canon/Nikon IQ and a $200-300 general purpose lens. then maybe there will be more buyers. with prices like these, no wonder even taneepak won't buy it and the system will head for failure as a result.
    I think there are more micro 4/3 lenses than the above 4 with more rumoured to be in the works.
    The greatest advantage of the mirrorless micro four thirds is a return to superlative wide angle lenses that were hitherto only available for rangefinder type of cameras. No more retrofocus wide angle designs which are technically inverted telephotos and not true wide angles. An added bonus to the best wide angle lenses is the reduced costs because now wide angle lenses can have their rear elements sit inside the camera body from their small size. Another plus of a mirrorless 4/3 is HD continous autofocus in video.
    Panasonic should also design their own lens in addition to those Leica design to cut down costs. After all Panasonic is the world's largest electronics company and they can do things at lower costs than others. Olympus and Leica lenses will not be cheap. Maybe aftermarket manufacturers like Sigma, Tamron, etc can cater for the lower end lenses, because not everyone wants an expensive and quality lens.

  2. #87
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    I think there are more micro 4/3 lenses than the above 4 with more rumoured to be in the works.
    hopefully

    The greatest advantage of the mirrorless micro four thirds is a return to superlative wide angle lenses that were hitherto only available for rangefinder type of cameras. No more retrofocus wide angle designs which are technically inverted telephotos and not true wide angles.
    not true.

    with u4/3. they not only halved the flange distance, they also halved the sensor size. in order to achieve the same viewing angle, they need to use lenses 1/2 the focal length.

    a 35mm lens in say canon mount is a retro focus design.

    a 17.5mm lens in u4/3 (with 20mm flange distance) is also retro focus design.

    there is no benefit there.

    Another plus of a mirrorless 4/3 is HD continous autofocus in video.
    not true, any camera can do the same autofocus, not limited to mirrorless. just flip the mirror up and it is equivalent design.

  3. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    with u4/3. they not only halved the flange distance, they also halved the sensor size. in order to achieve the same viewing angle, they need to use lenses 1/2 the focal length.

    a 35mm lens in say canon mount is a retro focus design.

    a 17.5mm lens in u4/3 (with 20mm flange distance) is also retro focus design.

    there is no benefit there.
    Check out the Lumix 7-14/4 (m4/3) vs. Olympus's own 7-14/4(4/3).

  4. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    i just recently sold 3 lenses. 50/1.4, 100macro, and my beloved 135 f/2. now i have some extra funds on reserve. but yet, i don't know what or whether i will purchase anything.

    the mystery continues.
    Kwun you sold the 135 2.0 I thought 135 is a very good performer lens? going to Nikon? now I'm very curious

  5. #90
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    come back to the dark side!

  6. #91
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Uh oh...hmm..

    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    i just recently sold 3 lenses. 50/1.4, 100macro, and my beloved 135 f/2. now i have some extra funds on reserve. but yet, i don't know what or whether i will purchase anything.

    the mystery continues.
    - kwun, are you giving up on badminton photography??..
    - let's see, gone are the mid-range focal length lenses...hmmm, the mystery?? i'm guessing kwun is thinking of exploring lenses in either the telephoto range or the super wide-angle range..
    - psst, i saw this deal on amazon.com....the 85mm/1.2!!...i calculated & it should fall within the total budget of your 3 recently sold lenses..
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_1_...fix=canon+85mm

  7. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    hopefully

    not true, any camera can do the same autofocus, not limited to mirrorless. just flip the mirror up and it is equivalent design.
    Yah.. I don't see the benefit either. In fact my handphone camera does the same thing, so does my 5 year old PnS camera.....

    Why DSLRs stay off that ? Because its so damn slow...

  8. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by weeyeh View Post
    Check out the Lumix 7-14/4 (m4/3) vs. Olympus's own 7-14/4(4/3).
    that's not quite the comparison i am talking about though.

  9. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by ae86trueno View Post
    Kwun you sold the 135 2.0 I thought 135 is a very good performer lens? going to Nikon? now I'm very curious
    yse it is. and it was painful to have to part with it. it is what i would call a *perfect* lens. fast aperture, fast AF, extremely sharp even wide open, and compact. i unfortunately don't use it very often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Me View Post
    come back to the dark side!
    the darkside is unfortunately very very expensive. the lens prices are ridiculous. even though image quality is outstanding, money don't grow on trees here.

    also, the prime lenses selection are relatively boring compare to Canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    - kwun, are you giving up on badminton photography??..
    - let's see, gone are the mid-range focal length lenses...hmmm, the mystery?? i'm guessing kwun is thinking of exploring lenses in either the telephoto range or the super wide-angle range..
    haha. i am just re-prioritizing my lenses. badminton photo is fun but i don't do it quite often enough to justify owning a $1000 that get used twice a year. similarly for my macro, excellent lens, but don't use it often enough for the price.

    as for what i will replace it with, i don't know as of right now. maybe i should save up the money for rainy days, or maybe something else will strike my fancy in the future.

    do try to poison me. i am not very immune, but not with a $1800 lens, ok?

  10. #95
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default ^^So..^^

    - what lens(es) are you going to use to take baddy photos, since your primary lenses are no more?? are you going with a third party brand (sigma, tamron)?? or are you just going to rent lens(es) for baddy pics??..
    - you can come down south and cover the U.S. Open. That way you'll use 'em thrice, instead of twice, a yr...
    - i feel bad for your beloved 1DMkIII. Just sitting there all alone; i think it needs a very fine companion......how abt the 200/1.8?!?!..hah
    Hmm, I hope it's not the next one to go?!?!..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 09-16-2009 at 09:08 PM.

  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    - kwun, are you giving up on badminton photography??..
    - let's see, gone are the mid-range focal length lenses...hmmm, the mystery?? i'm guessing kwun is thinking of exploring lenses in either the telephoto range or the super wide-angle range..
    - psst, i saw this deal on amazon.com....the 85mm/1.2!!...i calculated & it should fall within the total budget of your 3 recently sold lenses..
    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_1_...fix=canon+85mm
    wow impressive However, I think 85L 1.2 is not good enough for Badminton on the AF speed. I have not tried it but from what I heard in Canon's forum, 85 1.2 is quite a slow AF lens so it might not be good enough for Badminton, I think 85 1.8 is better lens. Its sharp, cheap, and very fast focusing.

  12. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    yse it is. and it was painful to have to part with it. it is what i would call a *perfect* lens. fast aperture, fast AF, extremely sharp even wide open, and compact. i unfortunately don't use it very often.



    the darkside is unfortunately very very expensive. the lens prices are ridiculous. even though image quality is outstanding, money don't grow on trees here.

    also, the prime lenses selection are relatively boring compare to Canon.



    haha. i am just re-prioritizing my lenses. badminton photo is fun but i don't do it quite often enough to justify owning a $1000 that get used twice a year. similarly for my macro, excellent lens, but don't use it often enough for the price.

    as for what i will replace it with, i don't know as of right now. maybe i should save up the money for rainy days, or maybe something else will strike my fancy in the future.

    do try to poison me. i am not very immune, but not with a $1800 lens, ok?
    I see, I actually was thinking to get 135L2.0 (price tag about 1.9k here) as well but everytime I think about it, and its just for hobby (my case) I don't think it will do justice.

  13. #98
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Off topic-True...

    Quote Originally Posted by ae86trueno View Post
    wow impressive However, I think 85L 1.2 is not good enough for Badminton on the AF speed. I have not tried it but from what I heard in Canon's forum, 85 1.2 is quite a slow AF lens so it might not be good enough for Badminton, I think 85 1.8 is better lens. Its sharp, cheap, and very fast focusing.
    ..the 85/1.2's AF is not as fast, no rumor, at least not as fast as other higher IQ Canon lenses. However, it compensates the "slowness" by having a large aperture opening; thus we could lower the ISO esp. for those DSLRs not capable of producing cleaner pictures taken @ higher ISOs.
    For 85/1.8, it'll be perfect for the newer generation DSLRs (capable of cleaner results @ higher ISOs/taking pics in low light).
    Overall, it's not a bad lens even for taking baddy pics.
    But the "beast" lens of 'em all is defo the 200/1.8..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 09-16-2009 at 10:28 PM.

  14. #99
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    nikkor 28mm/1.4 isn't a boring lens! i'm using it as my "shooting in available darkness" lens being able to shoot handheld indoors/night time f/1.4 @ 1/30s rocks! though the price of the lens wasn't so attractive

  15. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post
    that's not quite the comparison i am talking about though.
    No. But that does show some benefits of dropping the mirror. The biogons, as anther example, cannot be used with any SLR due to the rear element intruding beyond the mount. Actually, they can but MLU is needed which means you essentially shoot blind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladius View Post
    Yah.. I don't see the benefit either. In fact my handphone camera does the same thing, so does my 5 year old PnS camera.....

    Why DSLRs stay off that ? Because its so damn slow...
    Well... I didn't see any benefits to AF either when I started photography in the mid 80's. I can MF much faster and accurately than any AF system at that time and my hit rate was much much higher if I do zone-focussing (than to leave camera to AF hunt or reframing). In fact, I never needed AE -- why bother? I'm nail exposures on slides with the spot meter using zone system. This method of working is much more predictable that even when I moved to AF/AE capable camera, I optimise the settings to do MF/ME/spot.

    With slowing eyes/brain and lack of practice, I start to use more AF/AE. I still do MF/ME most of the time but I keep forgetting something. These technologies makes photography easier and allows the photographer to focus on the subject.

    CDAF will need more time to mature but unlikely to ever be faster than PDAF. The question is how fast do you really need it? CDAF is almost defacto for any video work but those do not really need fast AF.

    I do not shoot sports so have no use for extremely fast AF. The times I did was before CAF so I adopted a wait and snipe strategy (Nikomat if I recall correctly). I do appreciate the need for good consistent CAF and motor drive -- better possibilities.

    However, since I'm no professional sports photographer, there are compromises I can live with and others which I cannot. You obviously understood the limitations and compromises hence power to your choice.. perhaps others can do the same as well.

    Back to the thread... what's Kwun's requirements?? He did state a figure of USD1800.

  16. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ae86trueno View Post
    I see, I actually was thinking to get 135L2.0 (price tag about 1.9k here) as well but everytime I think about it, and its just for hobby (my case) I don't think it will do justice.
    Come'on brother... it's never about doing justice... it's about the once in a lifetime moment that you didn't have to correct lens for.

    Ideas for the 135/2 (assuming FF),
    1. mid-range sports (wife playing badminton will be nice)
    2. Wonderful portrait lens (a bit sharp though so dun bother stopping down).
    3. Wonderful portrait lens #2, available light
    4. Kids running around the park (even better if you are APS-C)
    5. Intensed facial expressions of that cute babe preparing to receive the serve
    6. Your most hated opponent on his bum
    7. Any other permutation of mid-distance/high-crop/available light
    Go BBB!!!!

  17. #102
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default If i understand it..

    Quote Originally Posted by weeyeh View Post
    ...
    Back to the thread... what's Kwun's requirements?? He did state a figure of USD1800.
    - kwun mentioned he is not immune to any photog gears. But his lack of immunity doesn't apply to a $1800 lens. Meaning: it's a no go.
    - What are his requirements? If he tells us his requirements, then i doubt any one of us would be able to sponsor his wishes; not the least himself..is that correct, master kwun??..
    - That price tag was for a lens, not a camera body.

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