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  1. #52
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    Exactly...if there is no rule banning 'second guessing' from replays, the ump's 'i didn't see it' argument would be weakened to the extent of non-validity!

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    Yes, probably the IBF will slowly catch up with today's available technology, just like in other sports eg. tennis, hockey, etc.

    But that doesn't hide the fact that this ump failed her job miserably for failing to pay attention to the game in progress. Isn't that her responsibility? If she had done her job properly, there would be no need at all for instant replay. As it is, the badminton court is not so big as in tennis that the ump can't oversee the whole domain with his/her own eyes, with the help of the line and service judges.

    And she should have allowed KKK to refer to the referee instead of giving him the yellow card! Everyone in that arena saw what had happened, except for her!
    Last edited by visor; 02-08-2010 at 10:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Yes, probably the IBF will slowly catch up with today's available technology, just like in other sports eg. tennis, hockey, etc.

    But that doesn't hide the fact that this ump failed her job miserably for failing to pay attention to the game in progress. Isn't that her responsibility? If she had done her job properly, there would be no need at all for instant replay. As it is, the badminton court is not so big as in tennis that the ump can't oversee the whole domain with his/her own eyes, with the help of the line and service judges.

    And she should have allowed KKK to refer to the referee instead of giving him the yellow card! Everyone in that arena saw what had happened, except for her!
    Have you umpired ?

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    No, why?...........................

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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    No, why?...........................
    Then how can tell what you can and cannot see....

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    Ummmm.... view the youtube video of the incident?

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    I have, and it looks like to me that MB is between Carol and CM....

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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    Ummmm.... view the youtube video of the incident?
    Ummm, was the video shot from the umpires chair?

    The umpire can only see so much and no human can see everything at once and concentrate that hard.

    Hockey has 2 refs and a linesman. I have no idea how many there are in football but damn it's a LOT!

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    Hmmm, I don't have fast internet access right now, will review it tonight when I get home.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJiWK...32A35D&index=6

    I just reviewed the video carefully several times again.

    At 1:09, you'll see that the ump had been looking down at her papers and only looks up after KKK yelled out right after the serve hit CM. It is true that MB is probably blocking Carol's view had she been paying attention; but if she had been paying attention, she would have at least seen the general trajectory of the shuttle was so off that MB's racket could not hit the bird and that it did not hit the ground (because CM was still hanging onto the bird!) As a matter of fact, Carol can still see CM with the bird in hand when she had looked up after KKK yelled!

    This is replayed again at 1:27 in slow motion, and you'll see it more clearly.

    So, Carol does not have any excuse for not paying attention to the serve, because if she had, she could have made a better judgement than what she had done... despite MB having blocked CM from her view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by visor View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJiWK...32A35D&index=6

    I just reviewed the video carefully several times again.

    At 1:09, you'll see that the ump had been looking down at her papers and only looks up after KKK yelled out right after the serve hit CM. It is true that MB is probably blocking Carol's view had she been paying attention; but if she had been paying attention, she would have at least seen the general trajectory of the shuttle was so off that MB's racket could not hit the bird and that it did not hit the ground (because CM was still hanging onto the bird!) As a matter of fact, Carol can still see CM with the bird in hand when she had looked up after KKK yelled!

    This is replayed again at 1:27 in slow motion, and you'll see it more clearly.

    So, Carol does not have any excuse for not paying attention to the serve, because if she had, she could have made a better judgement than what she had done... despite MB having blocked CM from her view.

    If you had umpired, you would know that Carol ISNT looking at " Her papers " but at the receivers feet ! That her job at this moment in time. To make sure he doesn't jump the serve. Not to " pay attention to the serve ", that the SJ job.

    As a side note, at Super Series Events, there are NO papers !! its all electronic !!

    Umpires are not able to call on what they think has happened, they have to have seen it. Doesn't matter what their gut feeling is.

    Try umpiring yourself, sit in the hot seat and then you might have a different view.

    Where we agree is that the Umpire should be able to call upon instant replays if they are available. It would have certainly resolved this situation.

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    From how much her head moves up to look at the situation after KKK yells at 1:09, she was not even looking at the receiver to begin with.

    True, her job is difficult, and it was bad timing at that moment for her to be looking down. But can you imagine what would have happened if this exact incident had occurred in Malaysia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by serviceover View Post
    If you had umpired, you would know that Carol ISNT looking at " Her papers " but at the receivers feet ! That her job at this moment in time. To make sure he doesn't jump the serve. Not to " pay attention to the serve ", that the SJ job.
    .
    Even if this were true it's still quite hard for me to imagine why she didn't see what happened. After all he caught the shuttle in his hand!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DivingBirdie View Post
    Even if this were true it's still quite hard for me to imagine why she didn't see what happened. After all he caught the shuttle in his hand!
    His reasoning is that Boe is blocking Carol's view of Mortensen.

    But if the ump were paying attention, she would see that Mortensen ends up with the bird in his left hand even without having to bend down to pick it up. So, she's unsighted for a moment, but I don't think it's that hard to make a deduction.

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    i saw the video of this particular incident. and from what i saw,these are my conclusions:

    - it'[s too bad the umpire most likely didn't pay full attention to what happened.whetehr her view was completely blocked by mogensen or not, that we don't know for sure (100%).i noticed her head was looking down prior to the serve and even after the serve was exexcuted.another proof of her not paying full attention was the fact she had to double check with the service judge on what transpired.and what's even more midn boggling was the fact the serivice judge didn't even notice.un-freakin-believeable!

    - the umpire's mind probbably got a bit muddled & probably forgot about the rules after koo kien keat protested the call and requested for the tourneament referree to come.the correct call should have been a fault as the shuttle was clearly in boe's hands.
    what's strange also is that the umpire didn't oblige to koo kien keat's request to ask the tournament referee.also,did the tournament refeeree see what happened?from the video, he seemed to be a bit lost also and seemed to agree with the umpire's call for a "let".i also feel the umpire probablyu thought both sides weren't ready for the serve thus the call of "let".

    - could an instant replay be useful in this case?probably.but we probably wouldn't be discussing about this if any of the officials paid any attention.

    - the umpire could've done a better job,imo.this is an unfortunate scenario but definitely something the umpire, service judge and all officials at that tournament should learn.

  16. #67
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    Agreed on all points.

    Boe and Mortensen being Danish playing this game in Denmark, IMHO, the ump and referee were just erring on the "safe" side in calling it a let instead of giving the point to the Malaysians. Simple as that.

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    Default made some typos..

    Quote Originally Posted by kish-mah-ash View Post
    i saw the video of this particular incident. and from what i saw,these are my conclusions:

    - it'[s too bad the umpire most likely didn't pay full attention to what happened.whetehr her view was completely blocked by mogensen or not, that we don't know for sure (100%).i noticed her head was looking down prior to the serve and even after the serve was exexcuted.another proof of her not paying full attention was the fact she had to double check with the service judge on what transpired.and what's even more midn boggling was the fact the serivice judge didn't even notice.un-freakin-believeable!

    - the umpire's mind probbably got a bit muddled & probably forgot about the rules after koo kien keat protested the call and requested for the tourneament referree to come.the correct call should have been a fault as the shuttle was clearly in boe's hands.
    what's strange also is that the umpire didn't oblige to koo kien keat's request to ask the tournament referee.also,did the tournament refeeree see what happened?from the video, he seemed to be a bit lost also and seemed to agree with the umpire's call for a "let".i also feel the umpire probablyu thought both sides weren't ready for the serve thus the call of "let".
    ...
    got jumbled up there anad made typos with players' names.
    it should've been:
    1. "whetehr her view was completely blocked by boe or not"
    and
    2. "the correct call should have been a fault as the shuttle was clearly in mogensen's hands"

    as for the idea of the unmprire was playing "safe" becayuse the match was played in denmark ins tead of in mlaysia,that i don't reallybuy.i don't think a diferent call would've mattered much.i mean if the umpire had given the pt to the malaysians,what would the danish crowd do?boo her?thwrow things or drinking bottles at her?

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