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  1. #18
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Recommendation for Lady's racket upgrade

    Originally posted by Tammy
    WWC, Thank you for the affirmation. This is what I'm doing now to deal with flick serves (high serves), using (weak) smashes or fast drops, because I can't clear far. My partner then covers the net for me for any return at the net. I was not sure if that was right way, but from what you said, it should be right.

    Should I also use drives to return high serves (in mixed doubles)?
    either a smash/drive, or if you are really pressured, flick a cross court deep clear.

    most importantly, right after you are done with hitting it, run as fast as you can forward, this tells your partner that you got the net covered and as a result, the backcourt is un-guarded and he better do something about it. never ever leave it till the shuttle is over your head and then realize that you need to go front, by the time you start moving forward, the birdie will be 2 feet from the ground and 4 feet behind the guy. trust me, i get that a lot...

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    Guys,

    IMHO, I think you are concentrating on very small details unlikely to make big differences.

    TiSP SS is fine.

    If you get SR, that's gonna be a bit more fragile so may not last so long.

    And you are losing the direction of the thread. Mxd doubles tactics should be in Genral forum

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    I ten dto agree with this. If u still find the Iso 900 Sr then i would suggest you to take that Over a SP SS. Try to find a G5 Sr 900 and u would do fine. I am sure your wife can take good care of teh racket.

    If not SP Ss woudl ideally suit her. if u are bent on Oval shaped rackets and just want to upgrade in carlton then u coudl try the Ab 900 or the Asti. They are good

  4. #21
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Recommendation for Lady's racket upgrade

    Originally posted by Tammy
    WWC, Thank you for the affirmation. This is what I'm doing now to deal with flick serves (high serves), using (weak) smashes or fast drops, because I can't clear far. My partner then covers the net for me for any return at the net. I was not sure if that was right way, but from what you said, it should be right.

    Should I also use drives to return high serves (in mixed doubles)?
    Tammy, I'm not a mixed doubles specialist or anything. In mixed, usually, the lady plays front and the idea is to reverse this for your opponents so that you got the lady playing at the back. A high serve to the lady usually forces her to move back and the guy is then required to cover the net.

    Usually, the lady opponent will move to cover the front for drops or cross court smashes and the man will fall back to cover all clears and midcourt smashes. If it is the lady serving, then you will be better off to do a fast drop down the line to the front and move forward diagonally facing your opponents to cover a net play or a cross court play whereas your partner will move back to cover a lob back to where you were.

    If it is the man doing the serving, you might be better off to do the cross court smash/drop to the far front corner and again moving diagonally facing your opponent to cover the net or cross court return whereas your partner will move back to cover the drives and clears.

    What happen if your opponents are expecting your drops? then you basically will be forced to clear (to either back corners) giving you enough time to move forward to cover any drops or cross court smashes. If you are not strong enough to clear than it might be best to play the smashes instead of drops.

    Hoped that this is clear enough and appreciate any comments from other more experienced posters.

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    Originally posted by kwun
    Hi,

    i didn't say heavier only for beginners. but i was just echoing what you said that a heavier racket is good for beginners.
    Okay, it was just a clarifying question. I thought I missed something that I
    should know.


    flexy racket are too flexy if one hits hard. the racket deforms too much during hit, thus less feel...
    [/QUOTE]
    I'm just wondering how much inaccuracy would this flexing cause? In terms of
    feel, would it be more important when you play touch shots at the net? It just
    seems to me there're lots of independent variables that can affect the accuracy,
    even assuming the racket doesn't introduce any unknown deviation of its own.

  6. #23
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Originally posted by raymond
    I'm just wondering how much inaccuracy would this flexing cause? In terms of
    feel, would it be more important when you play touch shots at the net? It just
    seems to me there're lots of independent variables that can affect the accuracy,
    even assuming the racket doesn't introduce any unknown deviation of its own. [/B]
    certainly there are no general rules. everybody has their preferences. GongZC uses the SR, and she certainly has no problem controlling the racket, Zhou Mi uses the Ti-10, one of the stiffest racket, and she doesn't have any problems either.

    and as i said, the difference a racket make is only marginal. and esp for beginners who at their skill level probably won't be able to tell much of a difference. it is better to focus time and energy on improving the actual skill than fiddling with fancy rackets.

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    Default Re: Re: Recommendation for Lady's racket upgrade

    Originally posted by Winex West Can
    One thing to note. How do your wife feel about your assessment? Did she find the racquet too light? (actually, did she find it hard to do clears from the backline?)


    I managed to convince her to check out new rackets with me last weekend .
    And yes, she has some trouble doing power shots such as clear to the backline
    (even I got some troubles with her racket, and that's big enough a trouble ).


    In mixed, most of the time, the lady is playing front and so do not really need to generate power but rather speed to put away easy returns.


    I understand and totally agree. But see my comments below.


    Based on your requirements, I would have the following observations (not knowing how your wife plays)
    - in receiving, she would want to either drive or smash the serve in order to put the other team on the defensive. Clearing would put her and partner on the defensive.

    This is in general true. However, clearing is not necessary a defensive maneuver.
    A fast clear to the back corner behind the lady could be an offensive move in
    mixed doubles. More important, while she can smash a little, I found most of the
    time she drops to either corners. That's not good if those are the only options
    she can do. Guess what, there're two corners but there are two opponents.
    I want her to smash when she has an opportunity (e.g. shallow high serve).
    And I want that to have some sting. The racket that she's using, IMHO, robs
    her power. If her clear can be 1 feet deeper, and smash a bit harder, her receiving
    high serve, which currently is her weakest element, would be more effective. The
    smashes and possibility of X-court clear would protect her drop shots.
    Of course, I still need to wait to see what she can do with the racket.
    Yeah, I know what some of you are thinking. I'm helping her to work on her form
    in add to the power...


    - racquet should be head light for faster responses. Soft/Med flex racquets can give added power.
    - net play (touch) will depend on the string and tension. What is her current racquet strung at?

    I got her racket strung a few months ago, so I forgot. Probably 18-19lbs?


    Racquets that you might want to try includes the Ti Swing Power (Yonex, Winex, etc), the Winex Might Muscle 90, Yonex MP77 (Winex has lighter racquets - 4U but not sure if that would be suitable for your wife).

    Seems like a lot of people here recommend Ti SP. We'd certainly take a closer
    look at it.


    Overall, she will have to find a racquet that she feels most comfortable with.

    But that's gonna take time. Image that she has been using her current racket
    for so many years. She'd probably notice the differences in weight distribution etc.

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    Originally posted by kwun
    on a side note. a point that i eluded on earlier but never elaborated is this... trying to have her buy a new racket and expect improvement in power is ok, but it will forever be marginal increase.

    if you want her to play better, then you should let her play regular doubles. don't make it too hard though, pick some easier opponents. let her do some work and have fun while she is at it.
    Hmm.. She is always free to pick up partners to play regular doubles if she
    wants to. If I put her at the back, I might end up not having much chance to
    even touch the shuttles, as most of the shots would be towards the back.

    One challenge I face is to have her work with me in drills and do things as I
    instruct her. THese days she actually is getting better in doing that. We drill
    on receiving serves, her weakest element, running back-and-forth (a footwork
    drill; but I still couldn't get her to do the switch-step/scissor-kick yet). We work
    on overhead stroke making, X-court defense situation etc. Occasionally I'd play
    handicapped Singles with her, in which she would need to cover front half of
    her court, and I cover the full Singles court. I intend is to move her away the
    front court; she needs to feel more comfortable in the mid-court. And slowly
    I'd integrate more work at the rear court.

    But now we're not there yet. THere's still much work to do at the front.

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    Originally posted by Tammy
    I don't know why the term "beginner" came up. The lady we're talking about has been playing for 7 years!

    I suppose for stronger players, everybody else are beginners .


    raymond, I'd recommend Ti SP SS. My requirements are the same as your wife's when playing mixed. The SS gives me good power to return the flick serves with fast drops or smashes (weak smashes though. I still need to work on that). This racquet gives excellent control and feel (when strung with BG-85). I'd say the best out there. It's 3U and evenly balanced, so it's fast and very maneuverable. It may take some time to get used to this racquet because it's stiff (but the stiffness gives very good control for net play). It took me about a month, but I love this racquet now.
    I just restrung my cab20 with BG85 at 22lbs for the first time. My stringer
    recommended that to me. Tonite I tried it out, and I like it a lot. Previously I
    used BG66 strung at 20lbs. Seems like there's a noticeable difference.

    BTW, what is SS and SR? Are they simply model names for Ti SP?

  10. #27
    Administrator kwun's Avatar
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    Originally posted by raymond
    Hmm.. She is always free to pick up partners to play regular doubles if she
    wants to. If I put her at the back, I might end up not having much chance to
    even touch the shuttles, as most of the shots would be towards the back.
    but that's what we want, isn't it? to give her more responsbility and gain skills while she are at it. if you take most of the shots and she handles the net shots only, she will never have the chance to improve.

    janet has been playing mixed all these time. i started pulling her away from the net and started making her play level doubles, it was a completely different territory and she is still trying to learn things like formation and other shots. she is now learning a completely different game.

    you will also have to choose your opponents wisely when doing that.

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    Originally posted by kwun
    well, i have been playing for 15 yrs. and heck, i think i still suck at it.
    Well Kwun, I think you're just too humble .

    and besides, i have seen Mrs. raymond played before. (no offense, raymond... )

    ** cough **

    i do like the recommendation of the SS though, however, as you said, it may be raymond, i am sure janet will be happy to let your wife hit a few shots with her TiSPSS. let me know when you guys are around.
    Thanks for the generous offer. If you come in Sunday 15-30 minutes earlier,
    maybe we can sometimes have a game or two, and my wife can try out Janet's
    racket then?

  12. #29
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Recommendation for Lady's racket upgrade

    Originally posted by kwun
    either a smash/drive, or if you are really pressured, flick a cross court deep clear.

    Hmm.. Lets see if her new toy would help her do that....


    most importantly, right after you are done with hitting it, run as fast as you can forward, this tells your partner that you got the net covered and as a result, the backcourt is un-guarded and he better do something about it. never ever leave it till the shuttle is over your head and then realize that you need to go front, by the time you start moving forward, the birdie will be 2 feet from the ground and 4 feet behind the guy. trust me, i get that a lot...
    This's an element I got her to work on now. A lot of time her momentum wasn't
    changed in time, thus it's like she stayed at the back forever, leaving the entire
    court for me to cover . Now I want her to at least hit a good quality return,
    so that we're still in the game after her receiving serve.

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    Originally posted by kwun

    and as i said, the difference a racket make is only marginal. and esp for beginners who at their skill level probably won't be able to tell much of a difference. it is better to focus time and energy on improving the actual skill than fiddling with fancy rackets.
    Hmm.. I've seen this many many times in this forum. While I won't argue
    that one shouldn't work on his/her skill, I tend to disagree with the point that
    racket wouldn't make any differences. At least that's not my personal experience.
    Time and again, I found noticeable differences in performance among different
    rackets that I got a chance to use. Actually, I think what is considered marginal
    to you at your level may well be a rather substantial improvement at her level,
    because she hasn't "perfected" all other elements that help her generate the
    power yet.

    This goes along the line that (arm or any sort of) strengthening exercises are
    not as good as practising the actual skill. I think practices certainly can be made
    more specific to badminton (principle of specificity). But there's nothing wrong
    sharpening your weapon (racket, string tension), doing condition, and strength
    training, is it?

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    Originally posted by kwun
    but that's what we want, isn't it? to give her more responsbility and gain skills while she are at it. if you take most of the shots and she handles the net shots only, she will never have the chance to improve.

    janet has been playing mixed all these time. i started pulling her away from the net and started making her play level doubles, it was a completely different territory and she is still trying to learn things like formation and other shots. she is now learning a completely different game.

    you will also have to choose your opponents wisely when doing that.
    You've made some interesting points here. But don't forget, Janet and you
    play a lot more often than my wife; she plays only less than 3 hours in a week.
    Not to mention we invest at least 1 half of that 3 hours in drills. Yes, the idea is
    to increase her responsibity. But I want her to take more responsibility at the
    front. One of the things she can do is to back away from the net and stay at
    the mid court more often. Too often, she sticks to the net, thereby not getting much
    chance to participate at all. Starting from mid-court position, and constantly
    adjust her distance from the net as well as left/right bias, she would be more
    effective in intercepting flat drives and play better, IMO.

    Level doubles is, as you say, another games altogether. Given the limited time,
    I don't want her to get confused. Rotation in Mixed is somewhat different from
    that in level doubles. E.g. the lady always strives to be at X-court position w.r.t.
    the shuttle on defence in Mixed, but not like that in Doubles.

    My view is that this's just an overload. I want her to expand her skills, but we
    can always focus on satisfying Mixed Doubles requirements first. BTW, she
    seems to fee contend with this.

    Nevertheless, I'd give her a chance to try level doubles with me every now and
    then, and see how things go.
    Last edited by raymond; 11-13-2002 at 02:42 AM.

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    Originally posted by raymond
    I just restrung my cab20 with BG85 at 22lbs for the first time. My stringer
    recommended that to me. Tonite I tried it out, and I like it a lot. Previously I
    used BG66 strung at 20lbs. Seems like there's a noticeable difference.

    BTW, what is SS and SR? Are they simply model names for Ti SP?
    22 lbs is a good tension to play with. Once you get better and used to that tension, you might want to consider moving up to 24 lbs.

    The Ti Swing Power (both Yonex & Winex) comes in four versions; SA, SR, SS & SX. The versions give you different stiffness with SX being the stiffest and also different weights; the SA, SR are at 81g (3U) whereas the SS, SX are at 87g (2U).

    Winex re-released two of its Ti Swing Power as Audina's Limited Edition (the SA & SS at 4U and 3U respectively).

    Given that you feel that your wife is unable to generate the power necessary to clear to the back (with a light racquet), you might be better off with the SS version. It also sounds like she lacks the power to generate enough speed when doing a clear (another thing, is she doing the clear stroke correctly?). Might want to bring her back to basic in doing the stroke, (e.g. racquet head back, elbow up, body turned sideways, racquet foot back, transfer weight, racquet face at impact, point of impact, etc).

    As for making a good return on service, that's more of a strategy than techniques (although granted that having the right techniques provide you with more options). Drills are a good way to go (remember to make it fun, though).

    Agreed that XD is different than level doubles but it does have its purpose (assuming that your wife can switch between levels and mixed) so playing more level doubles will allow her to play shots that she normally don't get to do that often in mixed. I would suggest that she actually play in an all women doubles if she can too.

    BTW, before I forget, one of the posters here (monto) was trying to sell off his Winex Ti SP SS. You might also want to check that out too.

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    kwun, WWC, Thanks for the tips on strategies. I'll talk more about that in the General Forum (when I have more time later), or the moderator will kick me out of this forum

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    Default Re: Re: Re: Recommendation for Lady's racket upgrade

    Originally posted by raymond

    And yes, she has some trouble doing power shots such as clear to the backline
    (even I got some troubles with her racket, and that's big enough a trouble ).

    Gnah, what's this obsession with blaming the racquet for not being able to clear full court? If you can't clear full court with any racquet with decent strings strung at anywhere between 16-24 lbs [1], then it's not the racquet it's your technique, sorry to be blunt.

    If she can't clear full court, more training is required, heavier racquets do help, but really aren't the problem. I love my ISO 900 SA, and it's possibly the lightest, most flexible racquet Yonex has ever made, and I've played with a UFO which is stupidly light, and a low balance point (feels like a complete toy), and have no problems clearing full court, and I'm quite a slender guy.

    [1] below 16 feels like you're hitting with a fishing net, above 24 you need a fair bit of power to get the trampolining effect going.

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