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  1. #35
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Recommendation for Lady's racket upgrade

    Originally posted by Pecheur
    Gnah, what's this obsession with blaming the racquet for not being able to clear full court? If you can't clear full court with any racquet with decent strings strung at anywhere between 16-24 lbs [1], then it's not the racquet it's your technique, sorry to be blunt.

    If she can't clear full court, more training is required, heavier racquets do help, but really aren't the problem. I love my ISO 900 SA, and it's possibly the lightest, most flexible racquet Yonex has ever made, and I've played with a UFO which is stupidly light, and a low balance point (feels like a complete toy), and have no problems clearing full court, and I'm quite a slender guy.

    [1] below 16 feels like you're hitting with a fishing net, above 24 you need a fair bit of power to get the trampolining effect going.
    Amen, brother.

  2. #36
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    Default I am a defensive player

    I need a racquet to suit my use I currently use a iso 100
    hope to see a good suggestion

  3. #37
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Recommendation for Lady's racket upgrade

    Originally posted by Pecheur
    Gnah, what's this obsession with blaming the racquet for not being able to clear full court? If you can't clear full court with any racquet with decent strings strung at anywhere between 16-24 lbs [1], then it's not the racquet it's your technique, sorry to be blunt.

    [1] below 16 feels like you're hitting with a fishing net, above 24 you need a fair bit of power to get the trampolining effect going.

    I'll third that opinion.

    You should see all those tiny kids clearing full court here. I'm glad they play in seperate tournaments to me otherwise I'd be embarassed big time

  4. #38
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    Default Thanks for those who offer helps

    Thanks for those who show enthusiasm to help other fellow players in
    sovling their personal badminton problems/questions. Your constructive feedbacks
    and patience are much appreciated

  5. #39
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    Default

    What do you normally do before you start your games? You test the speed of
    the birds. If they're fast, you slow them down or replace them. If they're slow,
    you speed them up or replace them. Why? All else equal, you know if you use
    birds of inappropriate speeds, your shots would be long or short. Not that you
    can't play with them, but you'd have to make a conscious effort to compensate for
    them.

    Originally posted by Pecheur
    [1] below 16 feels like you're hitting with a fishing net, above 24 you need a fair bit of power to get the trampolining effect going.
    First of all, other than some common sense, I've no knowledge of this special
    effects. I'm simply trying to use/understand your point here.

    From this, I can visualize a curve of tension vs power generation. Regardless, all else equal, if you use the "wrong" end of the tension curve, you're gonna have to
    work harder to compensate for it. How big of a difference between the weakest
    spot and the best spot on the curve? I can only imagine that in one extreme, the
    bird doesn't fly at all. Can you play with tension at 16lbs? Probably, but you
    know what I'm gonna say. Should you? But rather, why should you?

    Han Jian's book touched on the subject of selecting racket. The weight, tension,
    grip size etc are all discussed. The thing is, if you give a "beginner" (I really hate
    to use this term, its so stereotypical; afterall, in the eyes of the international
    professions, we're all just beginners here), the wrong racket, he/she would try to
    compensate it with improper techniques; so these're all important considerations.

    Originally posted by raymond
    And yes, she has some trouble doing power shots such as clear to the backline
    (even I got some troubles with her racket, and that's big enough a trouble ).
    Does Cab 20 strung at 19lbs sound like a power racket to anybody? I don't have
    trouble clearing end-to-end with my Cab20. My statement above may be an
    exaggeration, but my point is that I can't hit it normally anymore; I need to
    consciously hit it harder to compensate for the loss of power.

    Nobody says techniques/skills/trainings are not important. (I made so many post on
    this thread, if I ever inadvertently said/implied that, well, I apologize to those who
    get offended). But if you say that your equipment (i.e. racket, strings, tension,
    shuttles) are not important. Well, sorry, I don't buy it! (Did I mis-read you/anyone
    here?)

    And what about those young kids that you said, Cheung? It says nothing about
    the rackets, tensions etc that they use. Would you think they use racket
    strung at below 16lbs? Or above 24lbs? On the other hand, I won't be surprised
    anyone of them would beat the crap out of me . But that's just beside the point.
    It's not even what we're talking about.

    If more advanced players can use a heavier racket to gain an advantage, so
    can a less advanced players, provided he/she can swing it without undue
    compensation.

    Strength/skills take time to develop. Equipment can be replaced if you can
    afford it. By using proper gear, if my experiment is successful, she'd then be
    able to more often use shots that she can't use before. (Otherwise, her shots
    would quickly be punished by her opponents, thereby discouraging her from
    using them). As she use them more often, she'd get better. So the whole process
    is a positive feedback.

    Come on, this is not rocket science. Is it really that hard to understand?

    Often time, I see people hijack a thread, set up a strawman and keep hitting it.
    Please, at least try hard to understand what is being said first! If there're things
    you don't understand, ask. It's that easy to prevent misunderstanding.
    Last edited by raymond; 11-16-2002 at 02:14 PM.

  6. #40
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    Default Re: I am a defensive player

    Originally posted by riraky
    I need a racquet to suit my use I currently use a iso 100
    hope to see a good suggestion
    Can't help you here too much as there isn't too much information to help you with suggestions.

    A defensive player in singles? doubles? mixed? what are some of the issues that you have? Do you feel that you have enough power, control, speed?

    Head heavy racquets help with the power and head light racquets allow faster swing speed for you to intercept shots quickly but ultimately it is your techniques/strokes that counts.

  7. #41
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    Default

    The point is, if you have remotely reasonable equipment, ie in most cases strings that aren't ridiculously tight or loose (actually for beginners I'd recommend between 19 and 21), then it isn't the racquet that is to blame for not being able to clear full court.

    I can fully understand why you buy a racquet to improve aspects of your game, ie get a harder smash, defend better, etc, but racquets can really only refine parts of your game. Clearing full court is such a basic skill that if you can't do it comfortably then you are definately a beginner and in my opinion should work far more on technique then thinking about racquets.

    Positive feedback is important, but she can develop skills and techniques during hit up and you said she has about an hour of genuine training a week? That's more than a lot of people I know when they started.

    PS 19 lbs, depending on strings and racquet is quite often the sweet spot for power for a lot of beginners and even intermediates. Maybe you should try stringing her racquet at that? If she can't clear full court, then she probably can't use 22 lbs effectively.

    Originally posted by raymond
    What do you normally do before you start your games? You test the speed of
    the birds. If they're fast, you slow them down or replace them. If they're slow,
    you speed them up or replace them. Why? All else equal, you know if you use
    birds of inappropriate speeds, your shots would be long or short. Not that you
    can't play with them, but you'd have to make a conscious effort to compensate for
    them.



    First of all, other than some common sense, I've no knowledge of this special
    effects. I'm simply trying to use/understand your point here.

    From this, I can visualize a curve of tension vs power generation. Regardless, all else equal, if you use the "wrong" end of the tension curve, you're gonna have to
    work harder to compensate for it. How big of a difference between the weakest
    spot and the best spot on the curve? I can only imagine that in one extreme, the
    bird doesn't fly at all. Can you play with tension at 16lbs? Probably, but you
    know what I'm gonna say. Should you? But rather, why should you?

    Han Jian's book touched on the subject of selecting racket. The weight, tension,
    grip size etc are all discussed. The thing is, if you give a "beginner" (I really hate
    to use this term, its so stereotypical; afterall, in the eyes of the international
    professions, we're all just beginners here), the wrong racket, he/she would try to
    compensate it with improper techniques; so these're all important considerations.


    Does Cab 20 strung at 19lbs sound like a power racket to anybody? I don't have
    trouble clearing end-to-end with my Cab20. My statement above may be an
    exaggeration, but my point is that I can't hit it normally anymore; I need to
    consciously hit it harder to compensate for the loss of power.

    Nobody says techniques/skills/trainings are not important. (I made so many post on
    this thread, if I ever inadvertently said/implied that, well, I apologize to those who
    get offended). But if you say that your equipment (i.e. racket, strings, tension,
    shuttles) are not important. Well, sorry, I don't buy it! (Did I mis-read you/anyone
    here?)

    If more advanced players can use a heavier racket to gain an advantage, so
    can a less advanced players, provided he/she can swing it without undue
    compensation.

    Strength/skills take time to develop. Equipment can be replaced if you can
    afford it. By using proper gear, if my experiment is successful, she'd then be
    able to more often use shots that she can't use before. (Otherwise, her shots
    would quickly be punished by her opponents, thereby discouraging her from
    using them). As she use them more often, she'd get better. So the whole process
    is a positive feedback.

    Come on, this is not rocket science. Is it really that hard to understand?

    Last edited by Pecheur; 11-17-2002 at 04:22 PM.

  8. #42
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    Default

    Originally posted by raymond

    Han Jian's book touched on the subject of selecting racket. The weight, tension,
    grip size etc are all discussed. The thing is, if you give a "beginner" (I really hate
    to use this term, its so stereotypical; afterall, in the eyes of the international
    professions, we're all just beginners here), the wrong racket, he/she would try to
    compensate it with improper techniques; so these're all important considerations.

    Does Cab 20 strung at 19lbs sound like a power racket to anybody? I don't have
    trouble clearing end-to-end with my Cab20. My statement above may be an
    exaggeration, but my point is that I can't hit it normally anymore; I need to
    consciously hit it harder to compensate for the loss of power.

    Nobody says techniques/skills/trainings are not important. (I made so many post on
    this thread, if I ever inadvertently said/implied that, well, I apologize to those who
    get offended). But if you say that your equipment (i.e. racket, strings, tension,
    shuttles) are not important. Well, sorry, I don't buy it! (Did I mis-read you/anyone
    here?)

    And what about those young kids that you said, Cheung? It says nothing about
    the rackets, tensions etc that they use. Would you think they use racket
    strung at below 16lbs? Or above 24lbs? On the other hand, I won't be surprised
    anyone of them would beat the crap out of me . But that's just beside the point.
    It's not even what we're talking about.

    If more advanced players can use a heavier racket to gain an advantage, so
    can a less advanced players, provided he/she can swing it without undue
    compensation.

    Strength/skills take time to develop. Equipment can be replaced if you can
    afford it. By using proper gear, if my experiment is successful, she'd then be
    able to more often use shots that she can't use before. (Otherwise, her shots
    would quickly be punished by her opponents, thereby discouraging her from
    using them). As she use them more often, she'd get better. So the whole process
    is a positive feedback.

    Come on, this is not rocket science. Is it really that hard to understand?
    Let's take a couple of these points.

    Han Jian's book - my opinion is that it refers to the very heavy and cheap badminton racquets causing poor technique. If you compare your choices to these very basic racquets, yes, definately it will make a difference .The racquets that are being considered are a world away from these very basic racquets & strings. These higher end racquets have much smaller differences.

    Pecheur should have stated "If you can't clear full court with any DECENT racquet with decent strings..............." rather than just implying any old racquet.

    So both you and Pecheur are correct.

    All these children in HK have a variety of racquets. Some just give their coach the racquets to string. Gee, I'm not sure if the younger ones even know what tension the racquet is strung at. I get the impression it's males reaching the age of 13-14 y.o. and above (that includes me!) that start to take an interest in minor technical details. The point of that statement was to illustrate that minor details most likely do not have come into your consideration for the original problem.

    I think if your experiment is successful, that's no problem at all.
    After all, ones preferences is always dependent on trial and error.

    In the end, whatever racquet your wife uses, I think getting a midrange racquet will definately make a marginal improvement. Getting a head heavy racquet won't help becasue she hasn't got the ability to generate the racquet head speed (my impression from information previously given in the thread).

    In the years I've played badminton, I've used a few different racquets. Retrospectively, it seems they didn't make that much difference. (That's why I keep changing them!!). Except for the YY slim10 resulting all the smashes kept going in to the net. (until the racquet itself got smashed up).

    We aren't talking about rocket science but putting so much effort on these very small points, and the divergence on tactics, has made us lose focus on the orginal problem.

  9. #43
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    Default

    Raymond

    Just one more point on Han Jian's book and heavy racquets producing poor technique.

    In the case of your wife, you already mentioned she's been playing for a number of years. My guess is that her strokes are already 'grooved'. IMHO, for her, getting a lighter racquet per se will not improve technique.

    In the end, it will come down to what she feels most comfortable with at this present time....(

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