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Thread: India Badminton
05-01-2013, 02:08 PM #358
What a sh*t load of BS~ Where was your sincerity to promote the sport from the beginning? Where were your so-called "progressive policies" when they were needed 10 years ago? I guess you guys were sleeping at that time... And now that the talent has made its way through to the top on its own sweat and money you guys want to cash in on that. Pathetic bunch of parasites trying to loach off of others' success whom you didn't even care for before. Progressive policies my a**.
Where were you guys 8-9 years ago when the likes of Chetan Anand, Arvind Bhatt, Jwala Gutta were beginning to make waves? Where were you guys when they needed precious coaching and guidance. I have seen the careers of those guys being devastated because of lack of your "progressive policies" back then. Although its different issue that the players themselves made some mistakes.
There was no BAI when Gopi was stressing on the fact that we needed better infrastructure and structured coaching and training program. There was no BAI when Gopi was begging for a piece of land to start his academy. There was no BAI when Gopi was cash strapped while building his academy, he had to sell his mom's jewellery which was not much but did cover some of the expenses. Yes the academy is his personal asset. But then why use his "personal asset" now to create and train the talent in the country. BAI should build its own infrastructure now that they have money.
Please excuse me for my rant here. But I just wanted to point out that BAI is a pathetic organization which never did anything for its players. They have stepped in now only because they smell money and they only see the sport as a money minting machine, IBL is the brain child of that greed. Nothing more, nothing less. The organization never cared for the sport nor the country.
I dont want to sound like a pro Gopichand but unfortunately our entire Indian Badminton team consists of his players at the moment except for Ajay and Anand. He is the one who showed what policies needed to adopted, how the players need to be trained, what the players needs are and what kind of infrastructure is needed to run this sport in the country. LOL! isnt it funny how BAI is jumping in taking all the credit. Shame on you BAI.
Last edited by rahuldarga; 05-01-2013 at 02:10 PM.
05-10-2013, 12:16 AM #359
05-17-2013, 06:48 AM #360
The importance given by certain countries to upcoming Sudhirman Cup tournament made me to think about the situation prevailing in india for this sport. Though the game has started to pull many youngsters , it is still in the backyard for many issues. With the great grand meeting for the players who are going to participate in the upcoming Sudhirman Cup from Indonesia , i am really amazed... I was thinking some days back that India would be able to trounce Indonesia if they get that extra point (in any of the doubles) and considering the singles' points as granted. I made a great blunder in coming to that decision that, after seeing the importance given by certain countries(for eg.Indonesia) for the tournament involved, definitely indonesia is in the upperhand for the upcoming tournament. With P.Kashyap(out of form) , i don't think there will be any chance in getting even that point for Men's singles.. I have no doubt about the fighting spirit of P.V.Sindhu, but in front of extra-charged indonesian players (that goes to chinese players as well, they are training hard for 15 days )I have certain doubt now with the very lean line up, will they be able to get atleast a point against formidable teams in place. I have no offense against indian players now.
I have heard Gopichand as saying to some interview that he is very well confident in moving to next round. How??? Any logical reason to prove it??? Not at all. I am very disappointed with the way india is considering Sudhirman cup . With so many Men's singles players under top 50, India has sent just two. If they are very much confident in moving to next round, they could have sent atleast two more men's singles players who are very capable..
With the condition and the quality of current squad which were sent to KualaLumpur from India, i think that india can get a maximum of two points . Thats all.
Last edited by scorpion1; 05-17-2013 at 06:54 AM.
05-17-2013, 02:18 PM #361
SC, TC/UC and the likes are a severe test of the all-round capabilities of a country in the sport. India never did stand a chance in the SC, which is a mixed-teams competition. India's strength lay only notionally in WS. In MS, they always have an outside chance against the other Asian giants but never better than 50-50. But where they wlmost certainly lose is in the other 3 disciplines, all doubles.
A cursory look at the initial line-up itself that was offered by India for the SC was the equivalent of throwing in the towel before the bout had begun. If the SC was really, and I mean REALLY important to India, the BAI would have called Jwala/Ashwini together, given them a stern talking-to and made them prepare in right earnest for at least a month. Ditto for XD. And what about Ajay Jayaram? Was he asked by BAI to join the selected players for team training at Gopichand's academy to prepare for the SC or was he still training in relative isolation?
Obviously they -the BAI and players- have "other" priorities.
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05-17-2013, 03:50 PM #362
Its unfortunate that Ajay and Anand are not working with Gopi full-time. Usually, everyone needs to attend the national camp regardless of their association with other academies. So theoretically they should be preparing together for the SC if he's on the team. I don't have a source to back it up but its purely an educated guess.
05-17-2013, 04:15 PM #363
I don't think the association should be run in an un-democratic way - frankly, there's no need for that. However, it needs to be clear that decisions are made by the appointed people, ideally a number of coaches (more than one to avoid the most blatant favoritism) and maybe a couple officials - without any further outside influences, though.
People who aren't involved in the players' training should not have a say as they can't judge the players and their capabilities.
Concerning the Indian association specifically, they need to do more than just rely on Gopichand's academy - they need to get a decent support system for their athletes if they want to succeed and also try to get coaching and scouting systems running. Without a number of good coaches doing the prep work, even the world's best coach couldn't do very much in one facility, as he could hardly be expected to find the best talents from all over the country by himself and develop them all by himself.
One of China's main keys to success is their strong infrastructure, having qualified coaches in every part of the country, and having provincial squads who already train in a very professional, organized way.
05-17-2013, 05:58 PM #364
IMO, BAI should rather be working on schemes for developing infrastructure rather than running after money minting schemes like IBL which are more likely to be a flop. People may start debating that if IBL succeeds it will develop the infrastructure. Sure it will. But it will fill up the coffers of the BAI's top brass faster than the actual intended development and then there comes in the politics and fight for the control. It's a routine which we have witnessed a gazillion times since the independence from the British.
They should use PGC's expertise in coaching and spread it across the country. Its the poor coaching system that's causing the hindrance. Of course they are doing it in the name of "work shops" but I feel its too slow. Now is the high time its an aspect which needs to pursued aggressively. Hit the iron when its hot. They should create a pool of good coaches with proper coaching techniques imparted to them because we know there is no dearth of talent and potential in the country. A proper layered coaching system has to be developed, for a population this huge, where players graduate one layer at a time and with the top layer representing the country across all age categories. BAI is utterly incompetent in imagining such schemes.
Last edited by rahuldarga; 05-17-2013 at 06:00 PM.
05-17-2013, 08:55 PM #365
Please, dont want to take badminton the tennis way in India.... Lets not talk about the infights its going through with the players & the association, the Olympics fiasco is a classic one, I dont expect an Indian sports org to function professionally, if there is money there would be politicians, and the politics in India is self centered... So called 'Democracy' of the Indian Sports authorities have led India to get a warning from the Olympics Association and the shameless fellows making a mockery of it sill persisted and caused an ouster from the IOA... Yes when a single person becomes powerful it could be dangerous but you can always see and monitor that... You can't just expect to make profits with no investment at all.
Results started to come up in India from he players not with BAI, but with Prakash Padukone and Gopi, who have sacrificed so much selflessly. I would rather doubt the collective BAI then these fellow gentlemen.
There is enough to start working on with, till the land, sow the seeds, take care of it and then they may think of harvesting it...
05-17-2013, 09:29 PM #366
It's interesting to see the discussion here. Gopichand's academy has been a great success so far. To see him doing such a great job without having the support in the past is remarkable.
I'd like to see why he's been able to make it so successful before running off creating other centres. What are the drivers of success? He must have a backup team - how is the backup team able to be so effective? Of course, the huge respect he has of being an All England champion counts for a lot and I can imagine every aspiring badminton indian badminton player must be trying to get into his academy (not a BAI run academy)
I see Indian badminton mainly progressing on singles. Doubles will take far longer. India needs to send many doubles players for overseas training experience (like Gopi had).
Under the present system, I see India really coming through big time in 10-15 years time. Why so long? You need the present crop of players to retire and build their own academies training up the present day inspired 7-10 year old children.
As for politics, Indian players must support set an example and support each other. I remember at a previous HK Open, I was sitting court side. The Indian player had no coach behind him to give him advice. At that tournament, there was definitely other Indian players and coaches attending that tournament. I was surprised to see this situation. Players have been registered by the national association to enter the tournament and also represent their country. So can't players and coaches help each other out for the good of the country? Watch carefully when you next see an Indian player who is not from Gopi's academy, playing a super series tournament. This is something BAI can definitely do something about and create support for other players.
Last edited by Cheung; 05-17-2013 at 09:42 PM.
05-18-2013, 03:37 AM #367
05-18-2013, 06:22 AM #368
What it comes down to is a country may have the players but that doesn't necessarily make a 'team'.
05-18-2013, 06:56 AM #369
Here's an anecdote from his life, back in year 2000 during Sydney Olympics when he was at the peak form of his playing career but he lost in 2nd round to Hendrawan. Gopi was devastated by this loss 'coz knew he was far better than the opponent whom he lost to. He was world no.6 at that time and had beaten some of the best. After the first round match Gopi observed that his body was very stiff and sore aching all over and he could not understand why. That night in the lobby he saw that the Chinese team was carrying ice bags to their room but he did not care much about it, more about that later. He lost the next round due to hamstring. Later, after the olympics due to his persisting nature he researched as to why his body ached so much during Olympics even though he was in his prime fitness. Then he made the discovery for his loss. The Badminton matches during 2000 Sydney Olympics were being played on a concrete floor, which he and his team was totally unaware of. And the reason the Chinese team was carrying large bags of ice was for treating the aching bodies of the Chinese players. Gopi researched and understood this fact.
And why Am I telling you all this? I am telling story to show how ignorant and ill prepared the support system was, and is to this day, that they didnt even know such a fundamental thing and this just doesn't end here but to keep it short I wont go in to them. After this revelation Gopi felt so much anguish that if only he knew this fact he could've atleast made it to the quarters if not semis. You know what happened after he learned about this fact i.e. the ice pack treatment? All England Championship! Yes, back then the AE was being played on concrete floor 'coz the wooden floors were not a standard yet so nobody cared. Yes this time he was prepared for 'it' for he knew the remedy (ice-pack) and as we know he won the AE .
To make long story short, the above example is one of the many he noted during his career what the support system lacked. Being a keen observer and a persistent guy, he always did a Root Cause Analysis (RCA) for his failure every time and every time he came up with an answer. He had to solve these little issues himself. Many people question his greatness because his only major achievement was AE. For a player who was spending more time doing RCA's than practicing, due to his incompetent and ignorant support system, winning AE itself was nothing short of greatness to me. He didnt have the luxury the Chinese and rest of the affluent teams had, yet he defied all odds and beat them at their own game.
Gopi quit the game when he was like 30 'coz his body had it enough and as there was no proper system and infrastructure in place he saw no worth in continuing. He took it upon himself to give back to the sport he loved so dearly and wanted to provide his juniors the support he lacked through out his playing career. And we see it today his efforts bearing the fruits. Unfortunately, since he was a singles player his expertise is limited to that category and we understand why India doesnt have a good doubles team. As Cheung rightly pointed out, it would take atleast 7-10 years for India to produce a world beating doubles team IF any of the current doubles team takes it upon themselves to give back to the sport like Gopi did. It took Gopi 8 years to build the current team excluding SN as she was already a prodigious child when Gopi started coaching.
Last edited by rahuldarga; 05-18-2013 at 07:04 AM.
05-18-2013, 07:34 AM #370
05-18-2013, 08:05 AM #371
@Cheung Sorry I got deviated from your question. My whole blabbering was that, the success of his academy and coaching can be attributed to his keen observations and RCA's he did while playing. He noted what all the support system lacks, the gaps and the loopholes. He just worked on those aspects trying to bridge those gaps, plug those loopholes. His emphasis was on fitness, technique, injury management and the game strategy in that order. He procured all that was need to achieve the above goals. He recruited physio's to create weight training and dietitians to create diet programs to make players stronger, employed himself and got few INA coaches to impart the technique and the game strategy, created proper injury management programs by making player's schedules with healing or recovery periods so as that let the players play enough to maintain their ranking and not aggravate their injury at the same time. This explains as to why SN was able to maintain her ranking despite her injuries and same with other Indian players unlike their previous generations.
For a Chinese or an Indonesian this is not a something new, they take the above for granted. That does not hold true for Indians until now.
In my previous post, the reason I emphasized on the creating a pool of coaches was because Indian coaching system lacked the knowledge and acumen of Gopi. And you cannot create good players unless you have good coaches. And we cannot always rely on once-in-a-while prodigious talent all the time.
I also mentioned that players like Chetan, Arvind, Jwala and Anup made some mistakes and those were not getting along with Gopi when started out as National Coach. Gopi emphasized on the discipline and a strict training regimen which didn't go down well with the then 'Senior' players who were 'lazy'. No wonder languishing down some where in obscurity excluding Jwala, who swallowed her pride for her career. And Gopi also let them go as they all were past their prime so he concentrated more on the younger generation. Sad facet of reality.
Coming to doubles, I gave 7-10 years time against your's 10-15 years time for a good doubles team is because we already have few doubles teams on the verge of retiring, Rupesh Kumar & Sanave Thomas and Diju & Gutta and may be Aparna Balan some time later. We dont know how many of them will get in to coaching but at least one of among them will.
Its mind boggling, how one academy can create such huge ripples in the entire sport. Its both fascinating and scary at the same time. It shows how reliant the country is on that one academy. Its creating a single point of failure. What if something happens and Gopi stops coaching all together due to some unknown reasons. What happens then? Think about it.
Last edited by rahuldarga; 05-18-2013 at 08:09 AM.
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05-18-2013, 03:05 PM #372
So 5-0 CHN-IND is on the cards, unless Sindhu beats Yihan. Though I think if Sindhu pushes herself she could upset Yihan, Yihan should take it given her vast experience.
The second closest should be WD. Kashyap shouldn't trouble CL, considering the current form. Akshay Devalkar and Pranav Chopra should hardly trouble Liu/Qiu, who are totally on the role. I think there is no pair in the world, who could beat them right now considering their form.
MD and XD should be very one sided matches.
Having said that, badminton is a game of uncertainties. Anyone can beat anybody on his day.
05-19-2013, 10:16 AM #373
05-19-2013, 11:28 AM #374
I can't see India hurting Indonesia except for LS.
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