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  1. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    You do that, go find that scientific journal.
    I do not believe a science paper will say in tennis, string tension has absolutely no effect on the exiting speed of the ball.
    Also, don't convince me, convince this guy. http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...16&postcount=9
    Here's one

    I found another one which did show a difference, but it was opposite to badminton knowledge with the lower tension giving greater rebound speed.

  2. #36
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    and here is another one where the experiment showed no effect

  3. #37
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    Lets talk physics.
    After reading some of those articles, it seems to me that the main difference between badminton and tennis is the ball. In tennis the ball dissipates the energy because it deforms upon impact to a great degree. In badminton, the cork of the shuttle has to deform in order to compare the two results - and it doesn't deform anywhere near as much. If the string tension causes the amount of deformity, then it DOES impact the amount of waste energy created, which would change the speed.
    But for a badminton bird - would that not be negligibly small? Even the studies which showed a difference for tennis had to use 30lbs of difference to show a 3 km/h difference. A comparatively puny change of 5lbs in badminton while also taking into account how much less of a difference it will make to the deformity of cork rather than felt would make any change in velocity for a badminton bird caused by sting tension to be extremely small.

  4. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by t3tsubo View Post
    This has been scientifically disproved (i can link you to the journal where they did the experiment if you really want, unfortunately no such test has been done for a badminton racquet and shuttlecock). With all other variables the same (swing speed, point of impact, angle etc), the string tension does not affect the speed of the tennis ball.
    Quote Originally Posted by t3tsubo View Post
    Here's one

    I found another one which did show a difference, but it was opposite to badminton knowledge with the lower tension giving greater rebound speed.
    after reading these two links, both supported my statements of post #29 which u try to say it's wrong. It is obvious u do not fully understood what the papers have said but had used it as a front to show how strong your hollow claims were.

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by t3tsubo View Post
    This has been scientifically disproved (i can link you to the journal where they did the experiment if you really want, unfortunately no such test has been done for a badminton racquet and shuttlecock). With all other variables the same (swing speed, point of impact, angle etc), the string tension does not affect the speed of the tennis ball.
    Quote Originally Posted by t3tsubo View Post
    and here is another one where the experiment showed no effect
    this paper talks about ball control. The effect of string tension on ball speed was not examined. Do u understand what ur reading?

  6. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by t3tsubo View Post
    Lets talk physics.
    After reading some of those articles, it seems to me that the main difference between badminton and tennis is the ball. In tennis the ball dissipates the energy because it deforms upon impact to a great degree. In badminton, the cork of the shuttle has to deform in order to compare the two results - and it doesn't deform anywhere near as much. If the string tension causes the amount of deformity, then it DOES impact the amount of waste energy created, which would change the speed.
    But for a badminton bird - would that not be negligibly small? Even the studies which showed a difference for tennis had to use 30lbs of difference to show a 3 km/h difference. A comparatively puny change of 5lbs in badminton while also taking into account how much less of a difference it will make to the deformity of cork rather than felt would make any change in velocity for a badminton bird caused by sting tension to be extremely small.
    i see u make your point with reference to a paper first and then u go read the paper afterward Please firm up your understanding on this subject first before making more statements. Right now, u r just backpeddling.
    Last edited by cooler; 01-09-2010 at 03:08 AM.

  7. #41
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    They say the higher the tension the faster the shuttle but the shuttle cannot fly that far. Just like using a wooden board to hit the shuttle. But high tension also offers more control too!

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    is it possible to look at it this way--
    since in higher tensions, force is imparted over a shorter period of time, as shuttle stays on the stringbed for a less time before bounce off. Thus acceleration is greater than lower tensions?

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    i see u make your point with reference to a paper first and then u go read the paper afterward Please firm up your understanding on this subject first before making more statements. Right now, u r just backpeddling.
    just because i read ABOUT a paper doesnt mean i read the paper. What i read was from a tennis forum and someone cited the paper. And how am I backpedalling? I admitted that wristwork's second post made me rethink the physics of how the string tension could cause a difference in the amount of waste energy being created. Also, maybe you should read the study more carefully because they measured both the ball control AND the rebound velocity.

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    Re tension vs. power, wristworks gave an excellent explanation that should be stickied!

    To continue the thought experiment further, might I also add that there is an optimal narrow range of tension for each swing speed/power (technique included) to optimally impart power onto the bird. Kinda like a bell curve, I'd imagine.

    My reasoning is that, like wristworks discussed, the shaft and stringbed as a system has to be optimally loaded and flexed in order to rebound and impart the kinetic energy onto the bird. In other words, to have the most optimal length of time that the bird can stay on the stringbed so that there is an optimal contact time for transfer of kinetic energy.

    Think of it this way, the system rebound time has to be perfectly matched to the player's swing power/speed/technique in order to get the most optimal power transfer. If the rebound is too slow/late, then the swing has already finished and less than optimal power was transferred. If the rebound is too fast/early, then the swing has barely started and already the bird has left the stringbed, resulting in yet again less than optimal power transfer. So, looking at these two extremes, we can see that the most optimal case would be for the system to be optimally (not overly) loaded/flexed by the bird and then for the system to rebound and to finish releasing all its stored energy back onto the bird before the bird leaves the stringbed.

    So, for a pro with a super powerful swing, he'll need a stiff stringbed (ie. high tension) and a stiff shaft, otherwise he'll overwhelm the string/shaft beyond the optimal load/flex of the system.

    Finally, by going to a stiffer system, the pro can get more accuracy and most importantly, I think, a faster system reaction time since the bird leaves the stringbed much faster. This is of utmost significance in fast competitive doubles game, especially with the rally point system where every single shot counts. So, the sooner you get the bird to leave the stringbed, the sooner you get it back to the other side of the net, whether it be smash, clear, drives, drop, etc., and the better your advantage will be.

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  12. #45
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    any physicists around here? we need an expert's opinion :P

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    I'm no physicist, but not to be immodest, physics was my favourite course in high school and undergrad university. Was always in the top 2%ile.My thought experiment is intuitively sound, although I may not be the best at explaining the concepts to someone who may not have a good grasp of physics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DivingBirdie View Post
    any physicists around here? we need an expert's opinion :P
    it seem everybody in this thread IS an expert. Problem is, in fear of me sounding abusive to some, some audience aren't experts. These people can't tell the difference between garbage nonsense goo from facts, in this case, basic physics. Some here claim to know about physics and even quoted so called 'scientific papers' with flair and sprout them like rap lyrics. To be a sticky, it should be have +90's% confidence to be factual or theory which have +90's% acceptance by the community peers.
    Last edited by cooler; 01-10-2010 at 02:22 PM.

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    Whatever quasi-phyisics you unleash on the subject hardly matters, you should just try and see what your own preferred tension is, what could be easier? All theories on "hang time" and "imparted kinetic energy" seem a little vague to me.

    Now, for the main question: "Why do people use a higher tension for more power?"
    I don't really think that's the case for all the 27+lbs stringjobs (or maybe just 30+, The line is vague and dependent on player level). Up to a certain tension power will indeed increase (so will the control and feedback you get), I'd say up to 27-28 for most decent players.
    After that it's more the question of "how high can you go without losing power?" with all the added advantages of a tighter stringbed, a slight loss in power might be acceptable, so the trade-off (power vs control/feedback) moves to higher regions for pro's than for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerby View Post
    Whatever quasi-phyisics you unleash on the subject hardly matters, you should just try and see what your own preferred tension is, what could be easier? All theories on "hang time" and "imparted kinetic energy" seem a little vague to me.

    Now, for the main question: "Why do people use a higher tension for more power?"
    I don't really think that's the case for all the 27+lbs stringjobs (or maybe just 30+, The line is vague and dependent on player level). Up to a certain tension power will indeed increase (so will the control and feedback you get), I'd say up to 27-28 for most decent players.
    After that it's more the question of "how high can you go without losing power?" with all the added advantages of a tighter stringbed, a slight loss in power might be acceptable, so the trade-off (power vs control/feedback) moves to higher regions for pro's than for us.
    u r getting very warm In fact, the title itself of the thread is misleading which made most of the phyisics related explanation that came afterward 'off the mark'. It was wrongly assumed the title statement is a fact and then people go all out trying to explain it.

    More reason of it not being a sticky
    Last edited by cooler; 01-10-2010 at 02:58 PM.

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    Could someone explain why you lose power with higher tension in 1 sentence? Shouldn't the deformation of the strings be reduced the higher the tension, thus meaning less power being wasted, thus meaning more power being returned into the shuttle? Apperantly I'm missing something here

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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    u r getting very warm In fact, the title itself of the thread is misleading which made most of the phyisics related explanation that came afterward 'off the mark'. It was wrongly assumed the title statement is a fact and then people go all out trying to explain it.

    More reason of it not being a sticky
    That's just hilarious!

    So, because of the original misdirected question of the OP, henceforth all posts and discussions in this thread is useless?

    Cooler, out of curiosity, did you read over wristworks and my discussion?
    I understand, there have been tons of threads on this before and you may be getting jaded from previous arguments...

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