how do you guys started from first until become an internatinal player? how do you achieve it from first? from school or from open tournaments?
From knowing and talking to my old partner who is playing internationally for US right now, getting up there takes your 100% effort. You basically have to eat and sleep badminton. You also have to give up most of your personally life because you're not going to have any spare time at all. And if you're talented, you might make it to the top 10.
This comment isn't so related to the question, but I have to say I really admire anyone from my part of the world (North America) who devotes her/himself to badminton and reaches the international level. It must take a huge level of commitment - financial sacrifices, physical demands, the constant possibility of eventual failure, pressure from family to move on in your life... And for what? They get no notice, little money, but some travel I guess. Wow! I really do have to say, "You guys are great!" I'd really like to know...what made you keep going? Not because I think you're crazy, but because, as I said, I really respect your focus and devotion to the game.
To achieve success and glory for yourself and your country demands a great deal of sacrifice, hard work, commitment, discipline (because you need long hours of training and hardly have the time for normal social life as time is precious to rest your body in preparation for the next day's training schedule), passion and a positive mental attitude that you can be the champion one day. Not Tom, **** or Harry can do this. You must be special. First, you must show that you have the talent for a particular sport, say, badminton, when you are very young. Nowadays, the serious countries start their selection process when the children are below 10 years old. China is a very good example and when you are spotted as good enough to be trained for the game, you may most likely be taken away from your parents and live and train in the numerous sports schools in the various provinces of China. I just read today, that even in a sport like weightlifting, children should start their training when they are just 8 years' old! What sort of adverse psychological, social and physiological impact this will have on a young child, I can't tell you now. But my gut-feel tells me this is not desirable. Being talented is not enough. There must be an established sporting infrastructure and institutions which can help you to succeed at various steps of the way to your final destination. The government and the sporting fraternity (qualified coaches, sports administrators and officials, volunteers, the sports professionals like the sports psychologists, the biomechanics trainers, the physiotherapists, etc) must also have the passion, commitment and wherewithal to help you along. Sports supremacy as a national goal is very much sought after as it can not only bring glory to one's country but also helps to bond together the various communities within that country and gives it a sense of togetherness and achievement even in times of adversity. That's why, in a glamorous and prestigious sporting event like the Olympic Games, countries vie for the top honours and try to secure as many gold medals as possible. And that's why countries who want to have world-wide influence, like the USA, will want to dominate the sports stage. Having emerged from its economic isolation and started to achieve some measure of economic success, China will be the next in line to want to make its presence felt in the sporting arena. Imagine the 'free' publicity that a country will gain if it wins time and again and have its flag raised and its national anthem played, for the entire world to watch almost instantaneously - countries which are plugged into the worldwide network of television and internet! Imagine the pride and joy of the winning countries' citizens! This is a very effective and potent political swoop for the country's government and leadership! That's why there must also be an attractive reward system for the champion athlete, whose active sporting life is relatively short and when his prime "economic" years are roughly between 14 and 30 years' old, depending on what sports/games he is engaged in. One can be a champion in diving and gymnastics at a tender age and much older in shooting and even badminton (for the very rare ones like our Danish champions), for example. Whatever the case, Singapore is willing to reward handsomely to any athlete who can fetch the Olympic gold (S$1 million), silver (S$500,000) and bronze (S$250,000) and on a lower scale for the Asian Games, Commonwealth Games and Southeast Asian Games. And in 2004, Singapore will have its first Sports School dedicated to the grooming and training of the talented athletes and I understand that hostel facilities are also available. Probably only teenagers, who should be in secondary schools, will be the age-group selected for the sports school. Only sports which the authorities feel we will have a chance to shine, like sailing, table-tennis and badminton, will be the ones they will start off with. So, sports is now a serious business here and we want to give our neighbouring countries a run for their money!
Interesting reading, Loh. I read about the recruiting and training of young athletes with mixed feelings, of course, because it is all so institutional and, let's face it, a little strange. People in Canada who wonder why we're not winning a lot of medals at the Olympics should read your message and ask themselves: "Is all of that really worth the fleeting (and, in my opinion, inflated) glory that winners and winning countries get?" Anyway, as I said before, my hat is off to the individual athletes themselves with the talent and dedication to reach the top. Not that I would like to walk that path...I like winning, but...
Hi Shoulderpain, hope you've recovered from your 'bigtoepain' after bigredlemon's prescription of the toe inserts as remedy. I agree with you "winning is glorious" but the process in reaching that climax is painful and arduous! Imagine poor young souls being taken away from their parents at such a tender age to undergo that journey, with many dropping out by the wayside, just so that they can bring glory to the country (China that is). China has been able to do this successfully, especially in the past, I suppose, mainly because of its relatively 'backward' economy and large population. Parents, especially the poor peasants from the countryside who are dependent largely on agriculture, may find it a great relief to have their 'talented' children taken away to be cared for by the state since it means a mouth less to feed. But the incentive system for their champion athletes has not been attractive since a good percentage of the prize money has got to go back to the state. You may have read that many successful Chinese athletes have left the country because they are highly dissatisfied and chosen rather to represent other more developed countries in the West or become coaches where they can earn a decent living. As for Singapore, times have changed and it appears more parents are prepared to allow their children to fulfill their dreams of representing the country especially in very prestigious events like the Olympics. So more young people are willing to stop their work or studies for a "while" (anything from 1 to 3 years) to prepare themselves for the major competitions ahead. Some youngsters turned "professional" after completing their secondary school studies. Badminton managed to secure a few of these youngsters and when our Sports School becomes operational in 2004, I think more will be willing to turn professional if they have the talent for it and are willing to undergo the hard training and discipline. Come to think of it, it is really not that bad after all. You can only be a champion once during your 'prime', which, to an athlete, is a very short one. Once you are past your prime, you can never retrieve it because downhill you will go. If you managed to secure a gold medal at the important games, you will be richly rewarded. It is not totally inconceivable that a Singaporean can win the Olympic gold in badminton one day and that means a million bucks in the kitty. One can also win important placings in other major games and the prize-money accumulated can be sizeable! With endorsements and other commercial contracts, these can snowball into a much bigger haul! How many of us can earn more than a million and keep much of it during our lifetime? I don't think we can do a Tiger in golf, or a Jordan in basketball, or even a Beckham in soccer, but still Badminton can try, at least for a smaller percentage and it will be a lot!
Hi Loh, I read with great interest your posts - not only badminton related, also Singapore story. It was great. But one thing, why many people when talking about soccer mentions Beckham? Is he really the best player today? I'm also very interested in your posts referring to the current sports development in Singapore. There is indeed a lot of investment in order to try to achieve success in international sports. Like I mentioned in another post, Indonesia planned a few years ahead for the Olympic medal in Barcelona. Considering that Indonesia is a powerhouse in badminton, one can only imagine the efforts spent for that medal(s). I'm curious about the ones that do not succeed. Singapore in my perception is a highly competitive society. As you mentioned, there could only be 1 champion. What happens to the others? Does the government have any plans to help the not so successful ones?
Hi Viver Thank you for your interest in my posts, esp on Singapore. As a Singaporean, I thought I would be in a better position to talk about Singapore and share our experience and news with others who may be interested to know, like you. So happens that I'm also very interested in badminton and got to know this BF forum only recently. I have learned many things since then from fellow posters. We have friends who have migrated to Canada many years ago, mainly to where you are now residing - Vancouver, which I have visited in the mid 90's and admire a great deal. Its cleanliness, wide open spaces, greenery and fresh air. Even the Cantonese spoken by the Hongkong migrants is no stranger to me as it is my mother-tongue. Singapore is relatively clean and green but we are constrained with limited space and despite our efforts on anti-pollution and to have clean air through legislation on the fumes emitted by motor vehicles, emissions into the air and discharges by the factories into our rivers and seas, we just cannot contain the haze created by forest fires (sometimes on purpose) by neighbouring Indonesia, where timber tycoons adopt the 'slash and burn' method to create space for replanting and as fertilizers. The annual haze starting around October has just cleared up - thanks to the monsoon winds and the heavier rainfall usually in greater abundance towards the year-end. Now back to Beckham. Although Canada is a member of the Commonwealth, the country is more aligned towards North America than Great Britain. I suppose you are more familiar with American football than with British soccer. Beckham hails from the richest football club, Manchester United, in England. MU is one of the few soccer clubs listed on the stock exchange and is well-known in many Commonwealth countries, including Singapore. Though not the captain of MU because he is relatively young and only broke into the limelight recently, Beckham was chosen as England's captain during the World Cup, where he gained further international recognition. Though not a striker, Beckham is a great distributor of the ball and is counted among the world's few great midfielders. With wife as one of the fomer very popular "Spice" girls, Beckham commands great popularity and with it, great commercial endorsements apart from his incredible high wages from MU! I can't dispute that Indonesia is a badminton powerhouse and the country will spare no effort in being number one in the world. But alas, even Indonesia badminton is adversely affected by the Asian financial crisis and politics within its ranks. The great Indonesian badminton team, including its coaches, is hopelessly depleted. It has been posted in this forum how many great names have departed for greener pastures overseas. Even their current best, Taufik, almost went to Singapore, which already secured his coach and a few other promising players! That's why the BF poll on the Sudirman Cup did not pick Indonesia as a contender. They simply don't have a woman singles player in the mould of Susanti or even Audina! And its recent best lady player has called it a day. I think it will take some time for Indonesian badminton to pick itself up. And it has to do with not only politics but more so economics. Hiterto, the previous government did not feel they need to follow IMF (International Monetary Fund) guidelines to get out of its financial malaise, but the present government found it extremely helpful to adhere to the guidelines. Meanwhile, other financially stronger countries, like tiny Singapore, are building their bases. You are right. Singapore is a highly competitive country. As I have explained before, Singapore has no choice but to go on improving itself as it has no resources other than the human resource. And I have explained Singapore's current education policy which emerged from our discussion on the locally-made movie "I Not Stupid". Which reminds me that many of Singaporean parents who migrated, including my friends who migrated to Canada, did so because they thought Singapore's education policy is too hard on their children. Despite this, our students continue to do well and many are effectively bilingual in English and Mandarin by the time they leave secondary school after 10years of formal education. Nowadays a large number proceeded to the polytechnics and the universities, although competition for places are just as keen. For most Singaporeans, education is often the key to economic success although more are now encouraged to take risks and to become entrepreneurs. By the way, Singapore is able to tide over very difficult financial crisis which our neighbours also experienced, simply because the government is prudent to keep aside budget surpluses for rainy days. Many so-called economic gurus often criticized Singapore for doing this and not making use of the surpluses in better ways other than accumulating them. The Sports School which I described is another option for the young Singaporean and their parents. Students who may not be academically-inclined, but are good at sports can now choose to attend the Sports School. Until perhaps the beginning of 2004, would we know the popularity of this new option. Suffice it to say that the initial curriculum seems to cater not only to the sports training aspects but also the core academic subjects which will enhance the economic value of the student should he not choose to be involved directly in sports later in life. In the past, it is true "Sports does not pay", but as I have posted above, nowadays if you are of Olympic or Asian Games material, you will be richly rewarded. Tan Howe Liang, our Olympic Silver Medalist for weightlifting in the 60's received nothing but has been employed by the Sports Council as a gym instructor. Of course, he has little education and mainly in Chinese. Dr Ben Tan, currently a specialist with the Sports Council, received S$250,000 for his Sailing Gold at the Asian Games not too long ago. See the great disparity in reward as well as education between the two well-known Singapore athletes! The government has tried its best to help every Singaporean through compusory primary education and to try to prolong the education of eligible young Singaporeans through various schemes which I have touched on previously in another post. Come to think of it, Singapore being a melting-pot for three great civilisations, the Chinese, Malays and Indians, it is a minor miracle that the Government succeeded in getting them to agree on English as the first language and the mother-tongue as the second language. However, with English, the three major races unknowingly received a life-line for their economic survival. All this made possible due to the very strong leadership of our first Prime Minister, Mr Lee Kuan Yew. Again returning to the help available to especially the young, there are schemes for the slow-learner or late-developer. Then there are financial schemes for the economically-employed and the really needy and destitute. But the government policy is to make every Singaporean aware of the need to take care of themselves in old age as far as possible. I have also describe some of these before. The latest policy to enhance Singapore as a global city is to add more value to its infrastructure, amenities and facilities, including the aesthetic aspects like sports and the arts. New investments are made into these areas and there will be more to come if Singapore continues to prosper. As I have emphasized, success in sports and the arts can help to unite our people of different races and give them something to identify with and feel proud to be Singaporeans.
Loh, Thank you for your insight and posts into the Singaporean badminton scene. Like viver, I am interested in badminton as it applies to other countries. I am not a Singaporean but hailed from Brunei. How would the government deal with the compulsory military service for the badminton elites? I would assume that it wouldn't be practical for them to stop and do their 2 or 3 yrs and resume their playing careers. As such, the only possible resolution is to wait for them to retire from playing badminton and then they serve their compulsory service. It's amazing but if Canada is to follow suit with (just the monetary reward) for winning, there will be such an outcry of how public money could be used for such a purpose, etc. The expected rewards are supposed to come from private corporations, etc. in promotions and marketing but when you have a sport like badminton (not perceived to be popular), then the advertising and promotional value of having a home-grown champion is considered to be miniscule.
Hi Loh, Thanks again for your informative post. I am also from Asia and migrated to Canada a few years ago mainly because of my kids. I have some ideas about Singapore through professional contacts but never had chance to visit your country. But I'd like to do this someday. Canada, probably should say Canadian government has a different attitude towards sports. I believe they view it primarily from the leisure perspective. Due to economic issues, I can see schools being depleted of PE teachers. My 2 younger sons who are still in elementary school tell me that their PE teacher is their own class teacher. As you know PE is very specific and does not resume to jumping around the gym for an hour. About Beckham, I was just curious about why everybody talks about him. I do like football very much and also follow it. He is a very good player but in my opinion I consider Ryan Giggs the better one in MU. Then there is still Veron, Scholes and Van Nistelroy. But the current best player for is Figo from Portugal and Real Madrid. Well I know opinions vary but question is why always Beckham is spoken about? If you remember George Best, former MU player said about Beckham: of course he is the best in the world - he just need to perfect a little bit more - learn to use his left foot, do more on 1 on 1, score goals not in dead balls situation and defending. Of course you could feel the irony. Going back to badminton, I am familiar with Chinese coaching methods. All my badminton coaches are Chinese and one of them is a national coach. Apart from training, they also told me about their lives, their experiences in competitions, the system in China, etc. Also had chance to go to China and play with some young players - beaten badly. You can imagine, our best player, a 27 year old man also from China (playing for a small city team) was beaten by a youngster, a girl at most 16 years old. Was also introduced to some lecturers (badminton lecturers in sports institutes/universities) and learn from them a lot about their research on badminton, coaching methods in general and the social/economic trends and effect on talent pool. I am interested in coaching/development and relating issues. I followed with interest the development of junior soccer in Portugal, from 1990's. How they started the project, organization and talent prospecting network, etc... A small country with only 12 million people and ranked among the top teams in the world. Interestingly enough, the guy who started it all, Carlos Queiros is currently coaching MU. Thus also my interest in Singapore's development in badminton. Looking forward to learn more from you about the latest developments in Singapore. Again thank you for your availabilty in answering my questions.
Hi Winex West Can, it's great to have you join in the discussion between Viver and myself. I have read many of your posts and found them interesting. It's also great to know that you hailed from neighbouring Brunei, which I have visited briefly when I was younger. As you know, the Sultan is a keen badminton player himself and almost got involved with the IBF as President recently. You must also know that he loves to have world-classs players play alongside him, such as Zhao Jianhua and Park Joo Bong. You've asked me a rather difficult question on our talented sportsmen who just turned 18 and have to undergo National Service (NS), i.e., compulsory military service for a period from 2 1/2 years for non-commissioned officers (private to sergeants) to 3 years for officer cadets. This is indeed a difficult time for our young men. It may mean a delay in gaining entry to the tertiary institutions (polytechnics and universities) and subsequent loss of experience and income from gainful employment, although the government do take into account the years spent in NS by compensating with a higher entry point in salary for such servicemen. Not so for the private sector which is based entirely on merit. Many years ago, probably in the late 70's and early 80's, talented sportsmen were given time off to pursue their respective sports even though they were undergoing NS. Much depended on the whims and fancies of the unit commander, it appeared. There were no official policy that they could continue specialising in their sport in NS. However, with the current emphasis on sports and the perceived resultant benefits to the nation as a whole, the authorities are now seriously considering whether to grant talented sportsmen who are national players or close to it, full time training after they have undergone a shorter basic military training for say about 3 months and treat the rest of the sports training period as NS. I think this is the most acceptable option for the aspiring sportsman rather than to wait until their sports training period is over before serving NS. Because the age from 18 to 21 is a prime period for young athletes to probably reach peak performance in most games. Otherwise, they would probably want to drop out of competitive sports altogether and just serve NS so as not to waste further precious time for studies or work. Then it will be a total waste and the country may not be able to achieve its goals. A decision on this will be arrived at soon. On the badminton front, our recent World Cup (Junior) silver medalist, Kendrick Lee, aged 18, will be directly affected and he is now in a dilemma whether to turn professional or to continue with his studies after NS. I think Kendrick is currently our best local prospect for world badminton honours if he turns professional. It seems that Canada and Singapore are on different political and economic development paths. Canada is way ahead in history and political development and the composition and experience of its people and leadership who matter most may be quite different from Singapore's. Right now our priorities and national goals may be opposed to Canada's and therefore our emphasis on various aspects of our development may be different. Our circumstances, resources and experiences are different and may therefore demand different solutions. I really don't know how much of these differences are true though. Singapore's model is based on meritocracy and has been well-supported by its citizens over the years. It is the political leadership which first espoused this standard and did away with notions of nepotism, favouritism and corruption. So in the case of monetary rewards for the champions, this has so far not met with criticism as everything is done above-board. And the funding comes from government controlled organizations which raised money from lottery, soccer and other gaming pools and this has to be accounted for. So far, the commitment on sports and the arts from the government has not diminished and we are going ahead with our plans. Unless something really bad happens, like a war and continued recession, it is quite unlikely that the government will change its course. Viver, I'm really impressed with your knowledge on soccer. You are not wrong to say that Beckham is not the greatest player, but compared to those of his calibre, he stands above them simply because of his marketability and his PR. Veron himself is such a good player, but somehow he is lesser known and was not marketed the way MU showcased Beckham. How the man conducted and displayed himself both on and off the pitch seemingly finds no peer! Even a talented player like Ryan Giggs, with a longer history, and perhaps reputation, in MU, can't come close to Beckham! Why? A man must be able to sell not only his talents but himself as well. And that is Beckham. I'm glad you are interested in coaching. I have been interested too and have attended courses over time conducted by both the Sports Council and the SBA. Hope I can help somebody with his game someday - maybe the kids. Our SBA is now putting into action to create a Register of Coaches and as a first step, coaches must attend a course in first aid and pass before being admitted to the Register. So I'll be attending the course in January. Do keep in touch guys! Nice having you.
I've been reading the posts you guys wrote, and have to say they were quite intelligent and interesting. I guess with the younger people away, you guys can actually have a decent discussion without being interrupted
Hi Loh, My knowledge in soccer is minimal. You know, I was kind of forced to learn. My oldest son loves football. When we came to Canada he wanted to play here. Found a club for him to play and he was rated bronze - that is beginner level. Played 2 more years in beginners level because was unable to get picked up in higher level. But noticed that he was much better than his team mates. I thought he was better than others playing in gold level. Problems started when he did not want to continue playing football. And you know when kids have to much time... Decided to take him to a professional soccer school. Took him to a guy who 80's coached the then Czechoslovakia U21 team. He had a quick look and immediately said he could not play bronze. He was at least gold if not metro - that is city team level. Well 2 months later in a tryout he was selected for metro team - a tryout conducted by a former professional player in European club. Needlesly to say from then been watching the training sessions, the drills, games. My second son is also good and been taking him to a professional coach. Also learning from them the development issues, since the guy(s) have FIFA professional coaching license (from Europe) and been professionals during their years. In other posts I mentioned that my badminton coach mentioned that drills in football are very good for badminton. This made me more interested and paid more attention to them. I can say I probably understand what my coach was trying to tell me now. I also went to coaching courses. Instructors came from China and were often national or provincial level coaches. One of them coached Yao Fen, I believe. Also included in the course were First Aid and introduction to Medical Sports (conducted by a sports physician) and also educational part conducted by a PE teacher. All together, I attended 3 such courses, up to intermediary level. I was so interested that I attended a PE course. On the 3rd year, I chose badminton as sport of choice. There I had to go over 300 hrs of theoretical/practical topics on badminton under the supervision of a lecturer (this guy also guided Zhang AiLing, Chen ChangJie in coaching course) from Shanghai Sports Institute. I really loved this part. Training methods, children development in general and specifically towards badminton, organizing tournaments, etc. It was really interesting and still interested especially in the kids development area. Hope to be able to work on this some day when I have a little bit more time. As of now, my time goes almost entirely for my kids activities. Hope to hear from you again soon. Wish you and your family a Merry X'mas and enjoy the holidays.
I used to have that kind of dedication, but not the talent. I could not understand people who had the talent, but no interest.
As many of you know, it takes more than talent to be successful although being talent do give you a leg up. Beside talent, there is also dedication, commitment and a strong belief that you will make it. Here in Canada, the big sports is ice hockey and the number of kids playing the game give rise to a great pool of talent resource but only probably about 1 to 2 % actually make it to the big league and not all of them are talented players. As a coach, you look for the above traits and it is not easy as some kids have all of them but then as the years go by, they became disillusioned or jaded and decided to give up so you have to keep the coaching sessions interesting and relevant to each player and hence you will find that the serious coaching/training session are usually limited in the number of players (not more than 2 or 3). Obviously there are other systems (e.g. China, Indonesia all take the route of identifying, selecting and grooming the young talent early - i.e. once selected, they are required to dedicate themselves to the sports whereas in N. America, it is more a free-choice selection and reward for the successful) which can be used to generate champions. Singapore seems to be setting up a system where it is similar to the Chinese/Indonesians but with a touch of the Western method thrown in where rewards are presented on meeting success goals. This will be an interesting system to keep an eye on to see how it progress.
Is this the method already employed by the Koreans? Indonesian players are also rewarded if they achieve international results. Remember at least Sugiarto. Heard that after winning the World Championships(??), the Indonesian government rewarded him with an house and some thousand US$ monthly allowance.
I agree with WWC that talent is not enough to make you a world champion and indeed hard work, etc. plus the will and belief that you can be one is important. There is actually no lack of young talent in Singapore, but hitherto, the priority of most parents is on the "paper chase", ie, getting a good education and a degree first to ensure a good career, which, unfortunately, does not include sports. Because of their parents' influence, many such talents did not pursue sports seriously when they grow older and move into the secondary and tertiary stages. But now, with the government's commitment, encouragement and attractive rewards for the successful sportsmen, the mindset is beginning to change. It will still take a lot of positive reinforcements before many more parents are confident that sports can pay. That's why the Sports School introduction is a vital first step. As for badminton, or for that matter other selected sports that Singapore wants to concentrate on, there must be a big enough base for the coaches to work with, preferably at least 100 trainees from which the elite will emerge. Even with its current very small base, Singapore manages to produce Ronald Susilo, who has beaten the current China Open Champ, Wong Choon Hann, at this year's Singapore Open, although Ronald lost to eventual winner, Chen Hong. Then Kendrick Lee became the second best Junior at the recent World Championship and Li Li is the current Commonwealth Games Ladies' Singles gold medalist. These players are still relatively young. With many more youngsters turning professional, Singapore's prospects should be brighter. But it'll take time. Anyway our Thomas Cup target is 2012, ten years later!
