How to beat Lin Dan?

**pBmMalaysia** · 03-17-2010, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Ayabrea

That's easy, they don't control every single aspect of his life because they are now under the international spotlight. China's rapidly expanding economy is establishing them as a dominant power international politics, thus they have an image and reputation to build and maintain as their influence grows. Therefore, they allow certain freedoms to their athletes to promote a humanitarian image, but in reality, the government makes all the important decisions. Everything can and probably is already arranged in such a way that all of an athlete's assets can be simply taken away when they no longer obey as they are not a capitalistic country.

Ayabrea

so according to your statement if lin dan is sick of training he can just go cuckoo for a few tournaments, then forced to quit and retire happily with all his earnings returned to him, am i right to say this?

**pBmMalaysia** · 03-17-2010, 04:46 AM

lcw skipping this swiss open is sending a strong message to lin dan - you must win, boy, as i am not there and if you still messed up i don't think you can catch up!

**skywalker** · 03-17-2010, 05:06 PM

lol
this is really entertaining.
who cares about what kind of message lcw wants to send. after he wins several world champions and olympics then i guess it's time that you can talk about catching up.
right now he is just struggling for not falling way too behind.

**pBmMalaysia** · 03-17-2010, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by skywalker

lol
this is really entertaining.
who cares about what kind of message lcw wants to send. after he wins several world champions and olympics then i guess it's time that you can talk about catching up.
right now he is just struggling for not falling way too behind.

i am sure you are a fan of lin dan and you have a lot of reading to catch up

**Wong8Egg** · 03-17-2010, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by skywalker

lol
this is really entertaining.
who cares about what kind of message lcw wants to send. after he wins several world champions and olympics then i guess it's time that you can talk about catching up.
right now he is just struggling for not falling way too behind.

Please forgive them.

It has been a long time with countless of disappointments until they finally see the glim of victory.

There is no way we can catch up with that.

**Aspire** · 03-18-2010, 06:24 AM

I think all this how to beat LD thing has to stop. It shows that not only LD is so beatable nowadays, infact the whole chinese national team is vulnerable especially in ms.

LD achived so called greatness by his fans were actually after 08OG where he displayed a quite remarkable feat againts LCW in the final. He owned LCW his fans would called it. But that kind of display were not seen before and were not repeated since. So what happened after 08OG?

He won the 2009 AE and WC ofcourse but he had some bad matches as well. Eg. the EAG and lately the just concluded AE.

What i want to point out here is

1.) without the assistance of LYB to force him to follow instructions properly and to keep his cool head during matches and also with the absence of the great strategist TXH it does affect the outcome of LD performances.

2.) Also without any assistance from his team mate (match fixing) how far could LD really goes in a tourney.

3.) How many majors had LD won or at least benefitted with both in point 1 and 2? I personally think it affected LD to a great extent! At least his trophy cabinet would be lesser of majors.

The best example to back-up my opinions is of course the AE2010.

My conclusion is, if all plans weren't form around LD to win a tourney by the chinese ba, fair matches all the way, LD is beatable. Very beatable indeed!

My two cents.

**InvinKoh** · 03-18-2010, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Aspire

I think all this how to beat LD thing has to stop. It shows that not only LD is so beatable nowadays, infact the whole chinese national team is vulnerable especially in ms.

LD achived so called greatness by his fans were actually after 08OG where he displayed a quite remarkable feat againts LCW in the final. He owned LCW his fans would called it. But that kind of display were not seen before and were not repeated since. So what happened after 08OG?

He won the 2009 AE and WC ofcourse but he had some bad matches as well. Eg. the EAG and lately the just concluded AE.

What i want to point out here is

1.) without the assistance of LYB to force him to follow instructions properly and to keep his cool head during matches and also with the absence of the great strategist TXH it does affect the outcome of LD performances.

2.) Also without any assistance from his team mate (match fixing) how far could LD really goes in a tourney.

3.) How many majors had LD won or at least benefitted with both in point 1 and 2? I personally think it affected LD to a great extent! At least his trophy cabinet would be lesser of majors.

The best example to back-up my opinions is of course the AE2010.

My conclusion is, if all plans weren't form around LD to win a tourney by the chinese ba, fair matches all the way, LD is beatable. Very beatable indeed!

My two cents.

Agree. Strongly agree indeed!

**skywalker** · 03-18-2010, 10:52 AM

of course all the players are beatable. nobody is completely invincible in badminton. lin dan is a great player, but talking about "beatableness" is totally nonsense.
one way to evaluate how great a player is in the history is his achievement. and personally i think that's the only metric. after several years nobody care about how fast you can move on the court, how great your defense is, how wonderful your backhand is, etc. they just remember TFK as OG2004, World Champion 2005, LD as OG2008, 3 times world champion. LCW? maybe because of this AE100 he is gonna be mentioned a little.
i am not an enemy to Dato LCW. i like watching his game and his style. but he really needs to work harder to collect some important trophies in his cabinet.

**skywalker** · 03-18-2010, 10:59 AM

personally i am very satisfied with what lin dan did. even he just retires i am totally fine. actually i am very curious how he would fade into the background. someone should show up to challenge his dominance. but that must be some young gun.

Originally Posted by Wong8Egg

Please forgive them.

It has been a long time with countless of disappointments until they finally see the glim of victory.

There is no way we can catch up with that.

**Aspire** · 03-18-2010, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by skywalker

of course all the players are beatable. nobody is completely invincible in badminton. lin dan is a great player, but talking about "beatableness" is totally nonsense.
one way to evaluate how great a player is in the history is his achievement. and personally i think that's the only metric. after several years nobody care about how fast you can move on the court, how great your defense is, how wonderful your backhand is, etc. they just remember TFK as OG2004, World Champion 2005, LD as OG2008, 3 times world champion. LCW? maybe because of this AE100 he is gonna be mentioned a little.
i am not an enemy to Dato LCW. i like watching his game and his style. but he really needs to work harder to collect some important trophies in his cabinet.

A detailed evaluations can be done the day both players officially retired. Right now the race is still on going.

P.S- I think Taufik's initial should be TH not TFK. TFK means (just ask any chinese guys here).

**Aspire** · 03-18-2010, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by skywalker

personally i am very satisfied with what lin dan did. even he just retires i am totally fine. actually i am very curious how he would fade into the background. someone should show up to challenge his dominance. but that must be some young gun.

This will eventually happen to all players unless LD retires now.

**pBmMalaysia** · 03-18-2010, 12:27 PM

ld is retiring now - he will simply lost then varnish. collect his winnings and start a new life

**Ayabrea** · 03-18-2010, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Wong8Egg

Your example is irrational.

Take iphone for example, they have dominated the smart phone market and left their competitor behind for at least 3 years when the iphone was introduced. Was Apple ever a phone maker before? NO. But they have a strong foundation of their brand image and that's how they success when entering the phone market.

Similarly, Li Ning have the brand name and capital to out do Yonex in China. There is no more Yonex China Open and now it is replaced with Li Ning China Open. Li Ning is not into the England market yet, but don't be surprise if the sponsorship get take over one day, thus Li Ning All England.

It is not cheap to sponsor the STRONGEST team in badminton and Li-Ning does it in 1 shot.

Their maybe 80% of players using Yonex (as of today), but 100% of the Gold medal of YONEX all england 2009 was captured by Li-Ning team. So does it prove that Li-Ning equipment are superior? Nope, but I believe they have success in marketing themselves on the first year.

LD defeat was becuz BCL was at his best form and LD didn't played his best and not because of the brand that sponsor him.

LOL, popularity plays a huge part in the product's success. The IPhone does not dominate the smart phone market because Blackberry supplies virtually all major corporations(which is where the big money is) with their smart phones due to almost all corporations using BES, which has 10+ years of operational history to support its current popularity and future sales. The Iphone is only a dominate player in the private consumer market, its a nobody in the corporate consumer market.

It takes a lot of time and money to make a product line popular enough to convince the general populace to switch brands. Think about it, a Li Ning user won the olympic gold medal in 2008 and all of the 2009 All England Champions and 2 of the 5 2010 All England championships went to Li Ning users, but yet ONLY the Chinese team uses Li Ning despite all of its success within the last 2 years. Everyone else still uses Yonex, which clearly illustrates their popularity and thus sustains their dominance.

Li Ning may be the number one supplier in China and is no doubt beginning to give Yonex a run for their money, but Yonex still clearly dominates the world market. In the future, Li Ning may overtake Yonex, but its going to take a long, long time before that will happen. Until then, there is no feasible way for them today to make an offer to their players that Yonex can't match.

Ayabrea

**Ayabrea** · 03-18-2010, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia

ld is retiring now - he will simply lost then varnish. collect his winnings and start a new life

I just realized why LD won't be allowed to retire, because Li Ning needs him as one of their flagship players to beat out Yonex as the dominant badminton racquets provider. China is most likely a big shareholder in Li Ning (thus them forcing all of their players to use Li Ning racquets), so they have a stake in Li Ning succeeding. Thus they will exert their behind the scenes influence to ensure that LD gets back on top, even if LD has the intention of performing poorly to be granted an early and comfy retirement. I am thinking that Super Dan will be back in full force in the next one or two major tournaments after China "convinces" him to win again.

Ayabrea

**Wong8Egg** · 03-18-2010, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Ayabrea

LOL, popularity plays a huge part in the product's success. The IPhone does not dominate the smart phone market because Blackberry supplies virtually all major corporations(which is where the big money is) with their smart phones due to almost all corporations using BES, which has 10+ years of operational history to support its current popularity and future sales. The Iphone is only a dominate player in the private consumer market, its a nobody in the corporate consumer market.

It takes a lot of time and money to make a product line popular enough to convince the general populace to switch brands. Think about it, a Li Ning user won the olympic gold medal in 2008 and all of the 2009 All England Champions and 2 of the 5 2010 All England championships went to Li Ning users, but yet ONLY the Chinese team uses Li Ning despite all of its success within the last 2 years. Everyone else still uses Yonex, which clearly illustrates their popularity and thus sustains their dominance.

Li Ning may be the number one supplier in China and is no doubt beginning to give Yonex a run for their money, but Yonex still clearly dominates the world market. In the future, Li Ning may overtake Yonex, but its going to take a long, long time before that will happen. Until then, there is no feasible way for them today to make an offer to their players that Yonex can't match.

Ayabrea

I see so much non-sense.

"The Iphone is only a dominate player in the private consumer market, its a nobody in the corporate consumer market."

This has to be the biggest joke right? How can you say the private consumer market is nothing? Unless every corporate ppl carry 5 blackberry around.

Look, Li-Ning badminton is only focusing in the China market at the moment and it is only 2 years old. You're comparing them on a global scale and that's invalid.

Giving Li Ning time who knows if they will out-do Yonex, and it is likely cause they have a very strong foundation ($$). Why would LiNing bother to sponsor any player from other countries when they don't even have the distribution setup??? I am sure they are busy enough for their expansion in the Chinese market alone.

So tell me, what kind of offer that Yonex could offer and Li Ning can't match? Equipment or money? Unless every player is a Yonex fan boy otherwise I don't your point here.

ok, I am done with this, we've drifted too far away.

**cooler** · 03-18-2010, 07:01 PM

yesterday on the bus, i saw one 35-40 year woman wearing Li Ning walking shoes.
I have yet seen any non-badminton person here wearing yonex shoes, especially outside the court.

**pBmMalaysia** · 03-19-2010, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by Ayabrea

I just realized why LD won't be allowed to retire, because Li Ning needs him as one of their flagship players to beat out Yonex as the dominant badminton racquets provider. China is most likely a big shareholder in Li Ning (thus them forcing all of their players to use Li Ning racquets), so they have a stake in Li Ning succeeding. Thus they will exert their behind the scenes influence to ensure that LD gets back on top, even if LD has the intention of performing poorly to be granted an early and comfy retirement. I am thinking that Super Dan will be back in full force in the next one or two major tournaments after China "convinces" him to win again.

Ayabrea

yes thats is correct n china is a big shareholder. he will be back depend on how deal strike, am i correct?