How to beat Lin Dan?

[pBmMalaysia]

that was my point, they should go play PAW instead giving us chances of lcw vs LD. It reminds me of those insurance commercials mocking insurance statisticans quoting endlessly chances likes:
1. there is a 0.006% chance to get bitten by a crab on a beach
2. there is a 0.01% that biker would fall off his bike riding thru an intersection
3. then they saw a man riding on an ostrich running along the street, one asked, what is the chance of that?? 100% is the answer

cooler, there goes your rough edges..thought so long we are following the thread.... and what's this crab, bike and ostrich stuff doing here?

have a beer and have a cool beer!

http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...ad.php?t=79490
i suggest that you need to venture more in BC and read more and more.

thanks but i didn't really finish going through, any stake $$$$ playing this paw?

[cooler]

thanks but i didn't really finish going through, any stake $$$$ playing this paw?

no $$$, just bragging rights
if u like to involve $$$, go to www.bet365.com

[pBmMalaysia]

no $$$, just bragging rights
if u like to involve $$$, go to www.bet365.com

no thanks and i didn't say i would like to be involve $$$, that's going straight to hell...

[Ayabrea]

This is my own opinion and is in no way a professional analysis, but I have seen a lot of matches between LD and LCW, here are my observations. LCW's general strategy is utilizing superior defensive play to force the match to transition into an attrition contest. The key weakness in this gameplan is when LCW's defensive play is inadequate to prolong the rallies against LD. Specifically, LCW cannot adequately defend against any of LD's jump smashes, this is clearly seen in the 2009 AE final, especially in the second set. By watching the 2008 gold medal game and the 2009 AE final, you can clearly see LCW having to dive beforehand for smash retrieval rather than his usual dive after the smash. Also, LD's netgame is better than LCW as almost all netkills came from LD. I don't know if LCW knows this, but his gameplan needs to adapt to compensate for this because LD has figured him out. When LD is exhausted, LCW will win the match in the 2008 Thomas Cup, you can clearly see LD exhausted in the final set when LCW dragged on the rallies and eventually won the match.
LD has the following weaknesses:
1. LD is unable to jump smash any backhand clear, even if he started off from the right side of the "T". The most he can do is do a standing straight or cross court smash.
2. Assuming a clear to LD's backhand, LD's smashes are weaker if he started off on the left side of the "T" and are fully defendable by LCW (call it scenario 1). If LD started off from the right side of the "T", sufficient mix up with crosscourt and straight smashes are not fully recoverable by LCW (call it scenario 2) you can see this clearly in the second set of the 2009 AE final. By recoverable, I mean LCW is able to block the smash, but the reply is weak and the rally usually ends with LD's followup smash.
3. LD has no backhand smash reply to a clear on his backhand. LD tries to hide his backhand strokes as he can only do backhand drops and clears, all of which are easily retrievable by LCW. LCW has a good chance of winning the rally if he can force LD's backhand.
IMO, there are 5 things LCW needs to do against LD, avoid a netgame exchange, avoid LD's jump smashes, focus on exploiting LD's weaker backhand, attack at every opportunity and attempt to prolong the rallies when attacking is not possible by keeping LD off balance. Right now LCW clears and does net exchanges at the wrong times and its gotta stop.

Ayabrea

[cooler]

3. LD has no backhand smash reply to a clear on his backhand. LD tries to hide his backhand strokes as he can only do backhand drops and clears, all of which are easily retrievable by LCW. LCW has a good chance of winning the rally if he can force LD's backhand.
IMO, there are 5 things LCW needs to do against LD, avoid a netgame exchange, avoid LD's jump smashes, focus on exploiting LD's weaker backhand, attack at every opportunity and attempt to prolong the rallies when attacking is not possible by keeping LD off balance. Right now LCW clears and does net exchanges at the wrong times and its gotta stop.

Ayabrea

u r saying if one doesn't use it means he doesn't have it?
In all level of players, backhand shots are weaker than the forehand shots.Attacking lcw's backhand can be view as LD's tactic as well.

your statement " attack at every opportunity and attempt to prolong the rallies when attacking is not possible by keeping LD off balance" is quite hard to understand. Wouldn't prolonging a rally open up LD to attack lcw? I'm sure LD has the 'attack at every opportunity' objective as well.

[pBmMalaysia]

u r saying if one doesn't use it means he doesn't have it?
In all level of players, backhand shots are weaker than the forehand shots.Attacking lcw's backhand can be view as LD's tactic as well.

your statement " attack at every opportunity and attempt to prolong the rallies when attacking is not possible by keeping LD off balance" is quite hard to understand. Wouldn't prolonging a rally open up LD to attack lcw? I'm sure LD has the 'attack at every opportunity' objective as well.

i think what ayabrea means is, ld no doubt is fast, lcw must be faster so he ....


something slowing down?

[Ayabrea]

u r saying if one doesn't use it means he doesn't have it?
In all level of players, backhand shots are weaker than the forehand shots.Attacking lcw's backhand can be view as LD's tactic as well.

your statement " attack at every opportunity and attempt to prolong the rallies when attacking is not possible by keeping LD off balance" is quite hard to understand. Wouldn't prolonging a rally open up LD to attack lcw? I'm sure LD has the 'attack at every opportunity' objective as well.

I'm saying LD does not have a backhand smash. LD only has 2 responses, a straight drop or a straight clear. He has no backhand crosscourt drop, backhand smash and no backhand drive, that is a weakness because any time LD is forced to do a backhand from the rear, its always going to LCW's left side of the court. Unfortunately, it seems that LCW does not know how to properly force LD's backhand. Against LD he tries to clear to LD's backhand, but it seems that he hasn't realized that if LD started off to the right of the "T"(say after retrieving a drop to LD's front backhand side), LD is quick enough to dash backwards and execute a standing smash that LCW cannot recover quick enough from after a successful smash block. LD actually scored a few points this way in the latter half of the second set in the 2009 AE final. Clearing to LD's backhand is only effective if LD started off to the left side of the "T", LD's standing smash is weaker because of the extra distance and LCW is able to easily smash block and recover.
On many opportunities for a smash, LCW chooses to forgo his smash and clear to try to prolong the rallies, its part of his usual gameplan. This doesn't work against LD because LD will jump smash every time, right through LCW's defense. The key to prolonging a rally against LD is to keep LD off balance with the following pattern: Drop to LD's forehand corner. This will limit LD to a netshot or a lift. Obviously, LCW should smash the lift. If its a netshot, LCW should immediately crosscourt lift to LD's backhand. The trick here is that LD would have started off on the left side of the "T", thus he won't get to his backhand rear court fast enough to fully power his smash reply (thus LD is "off balance" from his full powered standing and jump smash), which LCW can properly block easily and recover properly to defend against virtually LD can do as he tries to reply to the smash block. Whatever LD's reply is, LCW should attempt to drop to LD's forehand corner again to start the pattern all over again. This is how to keep LD off balance while prolonging the rallies. It also prevents LD's more punishing smashes as long as LCW is able to keep LD in this pattern.
Everytime LCW gets the chance to smash, he should smash, which he currently does not do. A proper smash will result in a netshot from the smash block, which LCW should immediately respond with a drop to LD's forehand corner to try to put LD off balance as described above. Obviously, not everything goes to plan and you will get different scenarios, but this is the pattern to aim for.
Ayabrea

[ye333]

Let King Yoyo show us "how to beat Lin Dan".

[cooler]

I'm saying LD does not have a backhand smash. LD only has 2 responses, a straight drop or a straight clear. He has no backhand crosscourt drop, backhand smash and no backhand drive, that is a weakness because any time LD is forced to do a backhand from the rear, its always going to LCW's left side of the court. Unfortunately, it seems that LCW does not know how to properly force LD's backhand. Against LD he tries to clear to LD's backhand, but it seems that he hasn't realized that if LD started off to the right of the "T"(say after retrieving a drop to LD's front backhand side), LD is quick enough to dash backwards and execute a standing smash that LCW cannot recover quick enough from after a successful smash block. LD actually scored a few points this way in the latter half of the second set in the 2009 AE final. Clearing to LD's backhand is only effective if LD started off to the left side of the "T", LD's standing smash is weaker because of the extra distance and LCW is able to easily smash block and recover.
On many opportunities for a smash, LCW chooses to forgo his smash and clear to try to prolong the rallies, its part of his usual gameplan. This doesn't work against LD because LD will jump smash every time, right through LCW's defense. The key to prolonging a rally against LD is to keep LD off balance with the following pattern: Drop to LD's forehand corner. This will limit LD to a netshot or a lift. Obviously, LCW should smash the lift. If its a netshot, LCW should immediately crosscourt lift to LD's backhand. The trick here is that LD would have started off on the left side of the "T", thus he won't get to his backhand rear court fast enough to fully power his smash reply (thus LD is "off balance" from his full powered standing and jump smash), which LCW can properly block easily and recover properly to defend against virtually LD can do as he tries to reply to the smash block. Whatever LD's reply is, LCW should attempt to drop to LD's forehand corner again to start the pattern all over again. This is how to keep LD off balance while prolonging the rallies. It also prevents LD's more punishing smashes as long as LCW is able to keep LD in this pattern.
Everytime LCW gets the chance to smash, he should smash, which he currently does not do. A proper smash will result in a netshot from the smash block, which LCW should immediately respond with a drop to LD's forehand corner to try to put LD off balance as described above. Obviously, not everything goes to plan and you will get different scenarios, but this is the pattern to aim for.
Ayabrea

let me start on your very first sentence, LD does has backhand smash which i said rare show doesn't mean no blow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQmgeX5xc_8
If your premise is wrong, i won't rush to read the rest of your post
it's lunch time here lah

[cooler]

Let King Yoyo show us "how to beat Lin Dan".

HH has nothing to lose to play erratically.
AE champ versus AE champ.
A duel worth watching

[DanielX]

Mr. Lin Dan has no weakness. And also, if you want more ppl to to read your argument, divide your hugeass paragraphs.

[Ayabrea]

let me start on your very first sentence, LD does has backhand smash which i said rare show doesn't mean no blow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQmgeX5xc_8
If your premise is wrong, i won't rush to read the rest of your post
it's lunch time here lah

Lol, that backhand smash was from mid court, not the rear. Anyways, its my bad, I didn't indicate I was referring to a backhand smash from the rear court, which I have never seen LD do a backhand smash from the rear court. Now Chen Jin has done a crosscourt backhand smash from the rear court.

[Ayabrea]

Mr. Lin Dan has no weakness. And also, if you want more ppl to to read your argument, divide your hugeass paragraphs.

Sorry, typed it up in notepad and didn't realize the format didn't carry over properly. Anyways, everyone has weaknesses, even Taufik Hidayat in his prime with his almighty forehand and backhand had weaknesses.

Ayabrea

[cooler]

Lol, that backhand smash was from mid court, not the rear. Anyways, its my bad, I didn't indicate I was referring to a backhand smash from the rear court, which I have never seen LD do a backhand smash from the rear court. Now Chen Jin has done a crosscourt backhand smash from the rear court.

Sorry, typed it up in notepad and didn't realize the format didn't carry over properly. Anyways, everyone has weaknesses, even Taufik Hidayat in his prime with his almighty forehand and backhand had weaknesses.

Ayabrea

but the almighty magician taufik does his backhand smash from mid court region too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEsARpxuYTM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ualwAwHjopU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnpWxk_I-Xk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvhhgxVgA5E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBZNL...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLebnp3CB1E

since LD is fast enough to get behind the shuttle at the rear court, why use a backhand smash when a forehand smash will do? like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlurXNnUQnw u must be getting bad coaching.

if LD can do a full rear to rear cross court clear just as well as taufik, how can u say LD can't do a rear court backhand smash? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK4IG...eature=related
I believe LD just don't need the glamor of backhand smash from back there.

[ye333]

You have drifted too far Mr. cooler...

LD can do a decent backhand cross-court clear ==> LD can do a decent backhand smash? Huh? Are you kidding me here?

Furthermore LD CANNOT do backhand clears "as well as" Taufik... Just watch how LD needs to prepare for his backhands while TH does them almost casually, like spending no energy at all... Listen to Morten Frost's AE 08 TH vs LCW commentary if you don't understand what I mean.

if LD can do a full rear to rear cross court clear just as well as taufik, how can u say LD can't do a rear court backhand smash? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK4IG...eature=related
I believe LD just don't need the glamor of backhand smash from back there.

[Wong8Egg]

IMO, there are 5 things LCW needs to do against LD, avoid a netgame exchange, avoid LD's jump smashes,

This is technically impossible. Avoiding net exchanges mean LCW will force to lift, and guess what is going to happen next? Bang, LD signature jump smash.

[ye333]

Agree.

In fact, what LCW should do is to do lots of net exchange, draw LD to the net, then lift. After that just try his best defence and hope LD's form is not as good as his.

The key is -- don't give up. Keep calm. Defense defense defense. There is chance that LD will get frustrated and start to make mistakes. After that, Chongwei, you know what to do.

This is technically impossible. Avoiding net exchanges mean LCW will force to lift, and guess what is going to happen next? Bang, LD signature jump smash.