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  1. #154
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    this is very interesting thread but still can't keep up reading..with the number of posts coming...

    taneepak, silenheart what kind of stringing machine are you all using?

    hope you all don't mind me asking as only if i can't catch up with all the theories, arguments, discussions, i might join in..

  2. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    this is very interesting thread but still can't keep up reading..with the number of posts coming...

    taneepak, silenheart what kind of stringing machine are you all using?

    hope you all don't mind me asking as only if i can't catch up with all the theories, arguments, discussions, i might join in..
    it's the methodology at issue, not the machines. U need to do more reading

  3. #156
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooler View Post
    it's the methodology at issue, not the machines. U need to do more reading
    yes i admit that, can't even finish yours, silentheart and taneepak what more to say so many..

    but to summarize them - some info, findings are very knowledgeable and interesting especially on the different between swingweight and drag force effects. some are purely gimmicks suitable only for customers/players not for debating, that's why its so long..

  4. #157
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    Hi all,

    Next week-end I'm gonna try removing 1 cross string at the bottom.
    If my memory serves me well, I've already tried that. I didn't feel any differences in spite of the fact I was much younger at this time ... So I think this method worth retrying again. I'll let you know the result

    As for the debate top down vs. down top ... I prefer Top-Down, even at very high tension. Why ?
    - Because It protects the main strings from a mishit. If crosses are more tensionned, the risk is shared between the mains and crosses together. It doesn't help much if the player is bad, but it delays the breakage anyway
    - Because on my machine it is easier to string this way. I have more space to work.
    - Because It seems I get a more precise and crisp sweetspot, whatever I add or not tension to the tie-off & starting knot.
    - Because I've already strung 600 racquets so far and yet I haven't experienced any breakages using this technic. (I've strung up to 36 lbs with Zymax 0.70)

    Of course I do not say that Taneepak is right on all aspects. I do not take his defense. This is just the result of my experiences and what I can tell you.

    Hope we will still learn and share more about stringing as the discussion is going ...

    Cheers

  5. #158
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilefeu View Post
    Hi all,

    Next week-end I'm gonna try removing 1 cross string at the bottom.
    If my memory serves me well, I've already tried that. I didn't feel any differences in spite of the fact I was much younger at this time ... So I think this method worth retrying again. I'll let you know the result

    As for the debate top down vs. down top ... I prefer Top-Down, even at very high tension. Why ?
    - Because It protects the main strings from a mishit. If crosses are more tensionned, the risk is shared between the mains and crosses together. It doesn't help much if the player is bad, but it delays the breakage anyway
    - Because on my machine it is easier to string this way. I have more space to work.
    - Because It seems I get a more precise and crisp sweetspot, whatever I add or not tension to the tie-off & starting knot.
    - Because I've already strung 600 racquets so far and yet I haven't experienced any breakages using this technic. (I've strung up to 36 lbs with Zymax 0.70)

    Of course I do not say that Taneepak is right on all aspects. I do not take his defense. This is just the result of my experiences and what I can tell you.

    Hope we will still learn and share more about stringing as the discussion is going ...

    Cheers
    absolutely correct we are here to share, discuss, pick up new ideas but skip your doubts..

    based on your above post i can tell you are using a mechanical machine and probably stringing for a couple of years, say 3-4 years?

    whether its top down, bottom ups or even center up & down is not so important here. its the finished job.... customers happy $ paid and they come back with their friends is a sign of your stringing success....good luck!

  6. #159
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    Default Heres my 2 cents on this topic

    The extra cross string on top is more for string breakage. If u do a miss hit, most of the time its the mains and its at the top that it breaks and that area has a higher likely hood of only two strings hitting the bird. But if you have one more cross than your more safe. This really helps those who string at much higher tensions. If your machine won' t give you room to add that extra string than I recommend just weave a piece by hand. Doesn' t need much tension. Its just a safty valve for hits in that area. I know some stringers will flame me for telling this secret because they want your string to break more. Not good for business.

    With the extra cross at the top I rarely break a string now except due to wear and tear or notching. Before doing this my Bg 80 was breaking so fast and was still brand new. Some of my friends who let the shops do it was wondering why they break so fast. I explained it but they look at me like I am a noob. This pro shop that everyone uses strings it with 22 crosses how can they be wrong. Because I don' t string for a living I can tell them the truth. But the pro shop will say that it breaks because you are very powerful and have powerful swing so you should string it very tight. Of coarse you will have evan more string breakage now. My friends break strings so fast its not evan funny. We are only recreational players and yet we break them like the pros. My friends don' t swing that fast or have that kind of power to break it that fast. The shops will always say that they are very powerful to make them feel good and come back to buy lots of expensive Yonex stuff and string jobs. I try to sell them cheap but high quality stuff but they say its fake or my advice is not welcomed. I think its because they spend so much money that they feel that the shop must be right. Because my advice is free it is taken for granted . Maybe I should start charging than people will listen.

  7. #160
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMD64 View Post
    The extra cross string on top is more for string breakage. ... Maybe I should start charging than people will listen.
    yes extra string on top helps string breakages in that area. next time show them your racket maybe they believe, if they still don't let them continue paying more!

  8. #161
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
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    Bumping an old thread of mine with new information:

    I have talked to my stringing fanatic friends about the issue lately and most everyone has agreed that the addition of that one extra cross string at the bottom does give a pronounced stiffer feel on the whole string bed. Since our respected stringing master Alan Kakinami has covered the pattern for the newer Yonex racquets as such:



    I shall present my idea on the older Yonex string pattern. I analysed racquets with the older Yonex string pattern and came up with this idea for the stringing pattern which will incorporate the extra cross:

    The old Yonex pattern looks as such:



    I checked my AT700 and noticed that the grommets on bottom 7 and bottom 8 are double pass grommets (or large sized ones) which can accommodate two passes of strings ie for both main and cross or a tie off point. Thus technically there should be two options which can add the extra cross at the bottom:

    1. The first option will be to tie off the mains at bottom 7 and start weaving the cross at bottom 8. This way the main tie off will avoid the starting of the cross string at the bottom but now we have a longer run of main string before tie off which according to quite a lot of stringers may cause the mains to loosen up in tension quicker since the overall string length is longer and longer strings scientifically have a higher stretchability.

    2. The second option is the same with starting the weaving of the cross at bottom 8 but also using Alan's method which is to pre-weave the first three cross strings at the bottom right before finishing the last main string pass and then tie off on top of the cross string at either the default bottom 8 or as how Alan did it at bottom 9 (the whole method is as shown by Alan in the video above). This way the main tie off will be closer to the last main string pass and there will be no worries on the string being longer and thus maybe leading to tension loose. The only problem some people may face here is the rather specific steps that must be memorised and then replicated properly for the pattern to work or as Alan said in the video if you miss out tiny detail then you will have to discard the whole job

    Comments?

  9. #162
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    true, adding extra cross string at the bottom increase the stiffness of the tension

    also safeguard any mishit in that area

    good job!

  10. #163
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    Thanks for the Props!! Have to say I am no Master Stringer That title for me is Mark Lawrence and Tim Willis, the England Stringers!! Those guys are Masters, I learned from them.

  11. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by kakinami View Post
    Thanks for the Props!! Have to say I am no Master Stringer That title for me is Mark Lawrence and Tim Willis, the England Stringers!! Those guys are Masters, I learned from them.
    Alan always so humble.

    i learned a lot about stringing from Alan and he is never hesitant to share his vast knowledge. all around good guy!

  12. #165
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    And how do you safeguard a racquet, whose engineers have safeguarded it against safeguarding? Arc-10 springs to my mind and certain Carltons. Mostly single pass grommet racquets. Has anybody tried to attach a string, whose ends are tied around the frame, not through grommets? And sorry, I haven't read this mammoth thread from beginning to the end

  13. #166
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    @kwun
    I agree with you too. I learnt a lot from him by watching the Stringfest recording. Thanks for sharing Alan!!

  14. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by t3Ri1 View Post
    @kwun
    I agree with you too. I learnt a lot from him by watching the Stringfest recording. Thanks for sharing Alan!!
    Thanks for the words!
    =)

  15. #168
    Regular Member johnlowe88's Avatar
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    Actually back in the 1980's I had a number of people who used to break strings near the T joint, so I introduced an extra cross at 7 and converted to 1 piece stringing. After doing this, they were much happier and it was a lot more tolerant of mishits. This Carbonex 8 was strung a few years ago with BG65 at 16lb. You may also notice in the photograph that we used to add small leather pieces at the nearest grommets to the T joint - to give a little more resilience to the string at that sharp angle. This also helps against breakage of the center main strings. With these old racquets, if you were not careful, the head comes out more rounded than oval, hence it was important to properly secure the 2 point clamps to avoid movement.Name:  DSCN4498.jpg
Views: 121
Size:  69.7 KB This gives some insight for the reasons behind adding an extra cross.

  16. #169
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    I might add a correction. I think this one was moving number 8 to number 7 cross. Then I think at the top, we added an extra cross. This is if memory serves me correct - now that I look at it again. In those days, we did not have internet and stringers were only sports shops who did everything their own way. Also, in those days the racquets had single grommets - so Yonex learnt from this to add paired radiused grommets to the throat area where the main forces act.

  17. #170
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    I learnt a lot too.... appreciate the video!

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