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  1. #18
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sihker View Post
    Ok, this is turning to a pissing contest, but then again. The above is what I mentioned, the "honoured" members are contributing TV rips encoded into AVI stream, where audio is mostly MP3. MP3 = lossy encoding.


    You can have a virtuoso pianist playing a concerto recorded into a low bit rate MP3 file compared to a WAV file of a young child just banging onto the piano keyboards and even with the superior WAV file format you can still tell which recording is the virtuoso pianist. Similarly you can compare the very old phonographic recording of those very classical musics with those of today's high quality coded concert bootlegs and can also attest that the "out of date and hissy" phonographs have way better music quality.

    Relative pitch and the understanding of music and tone goes a long way more than just basing it on the recording format; unless you're tone deaf of course

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    I never understood why people string thicker strings at higher tensions. I use bg80 at 27lbs (well, 12.5kg so maybe 27,5) but for me to get any feeling out of bg65ti I strung it at 30lbs.
    I didn't feel like 30lbs 0.70 played any better than 0.68 at 27-28. Why add the extra stress on your racket, risk more breaking on mishits?

    Maybe it's just personal preference?

  3. #20
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerby View Post
    I never understood why people string thicker strings at higher tensions. I use bg80 at 27lbs (well, 12.5kg so maybe 27,5) but for me to get any feeling out of bg65ti I strung it at 30lbs.
    I didn't feel like 30lbs 0.70 played any better than 0.68 at 27-28. Why add the extra stress on your racket, risk more breaking on mishits?

    Maybe it's just personal preference?
    This is actually a very interesting point. The most important difference from my experience is that the thicker strings such as BG65 and BG65 Power are much more durable and can last a lot longer than the thinner strings even if the latter are strung at lower tensions that "match the feel".

    A thinner string like BG80 strung at 28lbs may last about 3-4 weeks for a particular player but a thicker string like BG65 Power when strung to 30lbs can last up to more than twice the amount of play time as the earlier BG80 (provided that the string tension of the BG65 Power at 30lbs can be maintained using stringing prestretch and so on, which is the main topic I'm trying to aim in this thread, of course). The racquet frame will no doubt be put under stress and has a high risk of breakage in case of a bad clash or bad mishit, but under normal conditions where the player has good technique to play at such tensions, the racquet although strung at such high tensions is still in a relatively safe condition.

  4. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerby View Post
    I never understood why people string thicker strings at higher tensions. I use bg80 at 27lbs (well, 12.5kg so maybe 27,5) but for me to get any feeling out of bg65ti I strung it at 30lbs.
    I didn't feel like 30lbs 0.70 played any better than 0.68 at 27-28. Why add the extra stress on your racket, risk more breaking on mishits?

    Maybe it's just personal preference?
    Given the same stringbed area and the same type of string, a thicker diameter string of say 0.70mm will have to be strung at about 2 to 3 lbs higer tension than a thinner 0.68mm diameter string to have comparable playability. A BG65 string at 30lbs would be comparable to a BG80 at 27lbs in tension feel, although in this case the vectran in the BG80 string will give it an edge over the BG65 in playability.
    30lbs tension will not stress any modern carbon graphite racquet frame. Poor stringing is usually the culprit. It is true that high tensions significantly increase the risk of string snapping from mishits.

  5. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzzards View Post
    This is actually a very interesting point. The most important difference from my experience is that the thicker strings such as BG65 and BG65 Power are much more durable and can last a lot longer than the thinner strings even if the latter are strung at lower tensions that "match the feel".

    A thinner string like BG80 strung at 28lbs may last about 3-4 weeks for a particular player but a thicker string like BG65 Power when strung to 30lbs can last up to more than twice the amount of play time as the earlier BG80 (provided that the string tension of the BG65 Power at 30lbs can be maintained using stringing prestretch and so on, which is the main topic I'm trying to aim in this thread, of course). The racquet frame will no doubt be put under stress and has a high risk of breakage in case of a bad clash or bad mishit, but under normal conditions where the player has good technique to play at such tensions, the racquet although strung at such high tensions is still in a relatively safe condition.
    I don't think mishits result form poor technique, but that's me. (rushed netkills and net interceptions are most common culprits for me)

    But I see your reasoning, it would still feel relatively good for another 2-3 weeks when strung with pre-stretch. But the feeling is very different if you ask me. Thicker strings give a greater 'thunk' when smashing and it indeed feels very solid. But on touch shots I feel bg80 (of bg66, or zymax 67) has a much sharper feel to it.
    Maybe players like us are just too picky

  6. #23
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    Blitzzards, thanks for your input. This is very timely in my current situation where I shifted to a 0.70mm from 0.68mm and had it pre-stretch strung at 26lbs.

    Now regarding the thinner to thicker string shift:
    1. What would be my playing performance effect now using a thicker string. So far I feel I have to hit harder. Is there anything else I should be aware of?
    2. If I should have had the thicker string strung at a different tension to that of my previous thin string to achieve, more or less, the same hitting characteristics, should I had it strung lower or higher than the thinner string?

    Thanks

  7. #24
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gulang1119 View Post
    Blitzzards, thanks for your input. This is very timely in my current situation where I shifted to a 0.70mm from 0.68mm and had it pre-stretch strung at 26lbs.

    Now regarding the thinner to thicker string shift:
    1. What would be my playing performance effect now using a thicker string. So far I feel I have to hit harder. Is there anything else I should be aware of?
    2. If I should have had the thicker string strung at a different tension to that of my previous thin string to achieve, more or less, the same hitting characteristics, should I had it strung lower or higher than the thinner string?

    Thanks
    I can help you with these questions

    1. My guess is you switched from BG80 to BG65? BG80 has a more significant repulsion so thus you will have to hit harder with BG65 strung on the same racqeut at the same tension. The thicker string (assuming BG65) has a softer and more elastic (some may say flexible) feel which should have a stiffer feel on soft net shots but a softer feel on smashes and harder shots. If you want about the same repulsion feel then you have to string the thicker string at higher tensions.

    2. You should be stringing BG65 at a higher tension compared to what you were used to with your previous string. What tension were you using? The increase should be about 2 to 3lbs from your original tension depending on your playing feel (soft or hard).

    By the way if the thick string you're using is BG65, you may want to string it with at least 10% pre-stretch and at 2lbs higher than what you are aiming (for example if you aim 27lbs then string at 29lbs).

  8. #25
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    I'm only playing casually but am having fun playing around with bg65ti tensions
    I started out at 22lbs which gave plenty of power but not much feel
    Currently at 25lbs and smashes are great if I use around 50% power (must be a timing problem) and drop shops are lovely

    I might pluck up courage to string at 27/28lbs but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna start injuring myself

  9. #26
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    Hi Blitzzards, I have a question for the pre-stretching of thick string (BG65).

    I am using a crank machine, if i want 27 lbs for my racquet, then should i string it at 29 lbs? and should i crank it slowly to give time for the string to pre-stretch about 10%? so i will get the 27 lbs feel.

    Or should i pre-stretch the string (before weaving), by tie-ing the string to a 1kg weight, so the gravity will slowly stretch the string over time.

    I heard from my friend that crank machines are not as consistent and accurate as drop-weights.

    Please advise anything you can,
    Thanks in advance.

  10. #27
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agile_Monkey View Post
    Hi Blitzzards, I have a question for the pre-stretching of thick string (BG65).

    I am using a crank machine, if i want 27 lbs for my racquet, then should i string it at 29 lbs? and should i crank it slowly to give time for the string to pre-stretch about 10%? so i will get the 27 lbs feel.

    Or should i pre-stretch the string (before weaving), by tie-ing the string to a 1kg weight, so the gravity will slowly stretch the string over time.

    I heard from my friend that crank machines are not as consistent and accurate as drop-weights.

    Please advise anything you can,
    Thanks in advance.
    First of all, the overall effective tension as pulled by a lock-out crank machine will never be as tight as that produced by an electric constant pull machine. It will feel about 3lbs looser with the crank machine when strung at the same set tension on both machines, on the same racquet. Otherwise, I believe that pre-stretching the string during the stringing process makes a more significant effect as you are making sure that the string is pulled sufficiently tight through the grommets such that tension loss will be minimal.

    I believe your idea of stretching the string slowly as you reach your desired tension is on the right track. The use of a 1kg weight to stretch the string before you start the stringing can also work but it may be too time consuming to be efficient.

    On a side note, I recently discovered that BG65 and BG65P when pulled at a tension of 32lbs to 33lbs should produce minimal if otherwise no tension drop at all

  11. #28
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    Hi Blitzzards, thanks for your advice. Indeed that's what the local pros also told me yesterday. Big problem though, the string was a 0.70mm. Babolat Finebraid, strung at 26lbs. with 5% pre-stretch, that only lasted 10 games (2 playing days in a span of one week!). I shifted to that because the micro-legend Ashaway, strung at 26lbs with 5% pre-stretch, I normally use was out-of-stock. Immediately after writing this I am having my BG-68 Ti strung at 25lbs with 5% pre-stretch. Hopefully this should last me about 1-2 months like the Ashaway Micro-legend.

    To end, lol, I strongly NOT recommend getting the Babolat 0.70mm. string Finebraid. Their racket, though, which I am using now is one of the two best rackets I have had in my 12 yrs. of playing.

    Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzzards View Post
    I can help you with these questions

    1. My guess is you switched from BG80 to BG65? BG80 has a more significant repulsion so thus you will have to hit harder with BG65 strung on the same racqeut at the same tension. The thicker string (assuming BG65) has a softer and more elastic (some may say flexible) feel which should have a stiffer feel on soft net shots but a softer feel on smashes and harder shots. If you want about the same repulsion feel then you have to string the thicker string at higher tensions.

    2. You should be stringing BG65 at a higher tension compared to what you were used to with your previous string. What tension were you using? The increase should be about 2 to 3lbs from your original tension depending on your playing feel (soft or hard).

    By the way if the thick string you're using is BG65, you may want to string it with at least 10% pre-stretch and at 2lbs higher than what you are aiming (for example if you aim 27lbs then string at 29lbs).

  12. #29
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
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    Default Update

    I currently have a few racquets done with BG65 and BG65 Power (both 0.70mm Yonex strings) at 31x32lbs with 10% pre-stretch and all of them have been used for around 4 weeks of play time and "rest". Due to the thickness of the string, all of them are currently now at an approximately 31lbs overall (all of them sound similar in pitch and the current pitch is lower than the original, the time taken to drop in pitch is different for each thus I was able to compare). What I can conclude here is that at tensions of 32lbs, BG65 should not drop more than 1lb in tension for a considerable amount of time (at least 1 month plus) and the crisp feeling (in my case which is relative to string tension, personally I would prefer 31lbs, 32lbs is very nice, 30lbs is just okay and anything below is too soft) should be intact for quite sometime. I had a recent similar experiment with BG65 at 30x31lbs with 10% pre-sretch on one of the same racquets mentioned above and it took 3 weeks for the tension to fall to 29lbs overall. It does seem that the ultimate stretch limit of BG65 for my case is around 32lbs.

    What I'm planning to do next will be to attempt the same experiment and string BG65 at 31x32lbs, but this time with no pre-stretch at all. What I realised is that the pre-stretching process adds about 1 to 2 seconds to each tensioning (from the pulling to 10% extra then settling down to desired) and for a racquet with 22 main and 22 cross strings, it will add 44 to 45 seconds to each string job. Thus the reason why tournament stringers don't do pre-stretch is now clear since lets say if they do 100 racquets in one day, the extra amount of time needed with pre-stretch will be 4500 seconds which is equal to 90 minutes. But if they don't do pre-stretch, they will be able to squeeze in another six racquets if they are able to finish a racquet in approximately 15 minutes. The difference may not be much but given that time can be saved, most stringers will choose to do so since the tension in the racquet should not creep in a week's time before the racquet will be restrung again.

    So to sum up, I shall post back with new findings once I can get my next string done at 31x32lbs with BG65 and let the racquet "rest" and play for 3 to 4 weeks and see how much the tension will have dropped from the original strung tension. Stay tuned

  13. #30
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    I have read all of the thread, very interesting, lots of good work has gone on here

    I was wondering, would BG80@26lbs, play similar, to Zymax 70 at around 29lbs ? I believe that like BG65, ZM70 is 0.7mm, bit holds tension better. Which for me is good as I wanted to increase tension, but maintain durability.

  14. #31
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LD rules! View Post
    I have read all of the thread, very interesting, lots of good work has gone on here

    I was wondering, would BG80@26lbs, play similar, to Zymax 70 at around 29lbs ? I believe that like BG65, ZM70 is 0.7mm, bit holds tension better. Which for me is good as I wanted to increase tension, but maintain durability.
    Yes, the ZM70 may play similar since I have heard that the string is actually a little thinner (and have also experienced first hand) than the stated 0.70mm, and I have also heard that the Zymax core doesn't stretch as much as lets say BG65 so the overall feel should be pretty stiff, similar to BG80. But since we all have a different racquet swinging technique, I can't guarantee that you can get the same feel by increasing the tension by specifically 3lbs (it could range from 2lbs to 4lbs). You will have to do a little experimentation here.

    But what I can definitely state is that the durability of the thicker string will be very significant at those higher tensions. Personally I have tried BG80 at 30x31lbs as an alternative to my usual BG65 at 31x32lbs and even when the feel was similar to me, I accidentally broke the BG80 with a chop shot after 5 minutes of play test

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzzards View Post
    Yes, the ZM70 may play similar since I have heard that the string is actually a little thinner (and have also experienced first hand) than the stated 0.70mm, and I have also heard that the Zymax core doesn't stretch as much as lets say BG65 so the overall feel should be pretty stiff, similar to BG80. But since we all have a different racquet swinging technique, I can't guarantee that you can get the same feel by increasing the tension by specifically 3lbs (it could range from 2lbs to 4lbs). You will have to do a little experimentation here.

    But what I can definitely state is that the durability of the thicker string will be very significant at those higher tensions. Personally I have tried BG80 at 30x31lbs as an alternative to my usual BG65 at 31x32lbs and even when the feel was similar to me, I accidentally broke the BG80 with a chop shot after 5 minutes of play test
    Ok thank you, I decided to increase my tension, is because at a tournament at the weekend, I found I was hitting a lot of my overhead clears and lifts out of the court, I was hoping an increase of around 3lbs would hopefully minimise this, so I was thinking of between 28-30lbs, with ZM70, I think I will give it a try, on my back up SW35 and see how it goes. I will report back, with results.

  16. #33
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LD rules! View Post
    Ok thank you, I decided to increase my tension, is because at a tournament at the weekend, I found I was hitting a lot of my overhead clears and lifts out of the court, I was hoping an increase of around 3lbs would hopefully minimise this, so I was thinking of between 28-30lbs, with ZM70, I think I will give it a try, on my back up SW35 and see how it goes. I will report back, with results.
    That's interesting to know. Good luck with the tournament then

  17. #34
    Regular Member Blitzzards's Avatar
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    Default Clearing somethings up, with thanks to my stringer for the briefing

    I have just thought about the stringing itself and about the use of pre-stretch. What I learned from my stringer is that the use of pre-stretch, from his experience, is really no more different than just increasing the tension of the string literally and there should not be too much difference than compared to just increasing the string tension of stringing. Referring to silentheart's theory on that pre-stretch evens out the string tension as it passes through the grommets during stringing and thus ensuring that in no point in between there will be a looser point, IMHO I hypothesise that should only happen when stringing the cross strings.

    The reason is in that the cross strings are ALWAYS (just have to emphasise that for beginning stringers, pardon me) strung after the main strings so at higher tensions, the friction incurred when the cross strings are pulled "in between" the main strings will be higher and thus there should be more chances of the mains not reaching the desired tension. A higher tension for the main strings should be imparting more friction to the cross strings when they are pulled so that's why I still believe, even though technically speaking an electric constant pull machine should compensate for this physical short coming with its technological prowess; that it is better to string the cross strings slightly (even at 1lb) higher.

    I hypothesise that for my case (plus my stringer's factor), when I string at 31x32lbs (with BG65), the effective tension when I'm not using pre-stretch could be just 31x31lbs (which is actually what the stringbed settles to after a while, as I mentioned above; the cross strings are actually always a little lower than stated on the machine according to my stringer). What I'm concluding now is that I think I should be stringing at 31x33lbs if I would ask for no pre-stretch (10% pre-stretching stretches the 32lbs cross to 35.2lbs by the way so 33lbs cross may actually put out less stress on the frame), providing that I want to compensate for the possible tension loss of BG65 and "end" with an overall tension of 31lbs....

    But to end, since I'm reviewing thicker strings such as BG65 here, YMMV with thinner strings such as BG80 or even NBG95.

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