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  1. #69
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    Default arrrgghh...the time allowed for editing posts has now been reduced

    A simple solution for the snobbish nature (which should be differentiated from elitism, and which, judging by Wizbit's initial post and by similar posts of others, is quite widespread) of most mid-standard clubs would be to have a coach present; however in Scotland at least , coaches tend only to be present at intermediate clubs or in National or University squads.

  2. #70
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    Default What I hate is...

    ...the fact that only 4 people can play in one game at any given point. I find with a large group of friends, it's not really a social game, since it can't accomodate all of us, so we go play ultimate instead.

    As well, I think badminton is probably one of the only games at my university where the number of people waiting for a game is more than the number of people actually playing

  3. #71
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    Default People hates uncertainty...

    Agreed with Dill and Ynexfan2003. The game is perfect, the only problems I had with the game are absence of organization in clubs and people with bad attitudes.

    As for badder cliquiness, it has more to do with how much people are willing to reach out of their cosy comfort zone and include new people. Whenever I join a new club, it usually takes me awhile to play with the core regulars. When the more competitive regulars get comfortable to me socially, they'll ask me to join in more often. For newcomers, they have to be assertive and not wait for others to ask them to join in. Just be friendly, mingle and ask for games.

    It makes sense to be selective about playing partners and opposition. It's no fun for everybody involved if the group is too unbalance in skill level and expectation. If newcomers have adequate skills, they'll fit in faster. There's no way around it. Either be a good player or a good-looking chick if you want good players to play with you.

  4. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizbit
    People who sling shots or hit twice and do not call. Sometimes they even demand to play a let if the rally is stopped.
    Some people who do that are correct! You are allowed to hit the shuttle twice with one stroke. One of the things I hate is when people call "no shot" for one of my strokes like this. You are not, of course, allowed to sling the shuttle.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wizbit
    People with ungraceful shots, especially "tennis" style huge backhand drives. In fact, all people who play with terrible technique and still get away with it.
    Oh, boo-hoo-hoo. It must be so annoying playing against people with poor technique, especially if they beat you.

  5. #73
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    something i hate is when all my clears end up going out......hehe...or is that just my own problem? hehe...people who ask you "do you want to play sides or front and back?" and also people who, if i have lifted the shuttle at the front, and get ready to receive a smash still stand there behind me

    also people who complain about nylon shuttles j/k......they are just much more economical here in the UK, the Yonex Mavis 300/370 are pretty good, people can play good control, net shots with them, so they are not all useless

  6. #74
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    First of all, I'm surprised by how much some people hate playing with beginners (or even intermediate club players). Yeah, you might not get a game, you might not even get a single good rally, but from the beginner's point of view, you can give them a really good learning experience. I belong to several different clubs, and a couple have very wide differences in levels, from beginners to U18 national players. I may only have to play 1 or 2 games with beginners in a session, but I always try to play to keep the rallies going and to push the beginners quite hard. Of course, you can kill everything at the net or smash hard knowing they won't be able to return it, but what good does that do anyone? Usually, beginners are not used to rallies lasting more than 5-10 shots, so if you can keep it going longer by playing slightly easier shots for them to reach, they can get more practice at longer rallies, improve their footwork, etc. Same for mixed, when I play with a lady player who is not my mixed team partner and who is not a competitive player, I usually ask if we can play level doubles so that she gets just as much time hitting from the back of the court. I'm sure she wants to improve her game as well and will enjoy it a lot more than if she was just stuck at the net the whole game.

    What I really hate is when I see strong players playing with 'lesser' players, and the strong players make it obvious that they are not interested in the game - they don't keep score, they look at what's happening on other courts, they have their racket down and feet flat in a 'I don't care' pose for most of the game. It's just so ill-mannered if nothing else.

    Oh, and I do HATE the snobbery of elitist private clubs, but must admit I have played in plenty of them as a guest and I LUUURRVE purpose-built badminton courts with specialist lighting and floors. It's like heaven... If I ever win the lottery the first thing on my shopping list is that Yonex court mat...

  7. #75
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    I, too, am appalled at how much some people can't stand playing with beginners like david14700. part of being a true athlete is helping those that are just beginning and give them a good impression of the sport. those who pound the shuttle down and look around like they don't care when they're playing with beginners are arrogant, and are probably not that great themselves. the best players would not do that.

    i understand and agree with the fact that if you want to improve, you play people better than you, it was stated on the first page of this thread. mind you, (i think this was stated as well), those beginners are definitely going to improve by playing with a good player and as a better player who was once a beginner, i think it's pretty selfish if you do not play with a beginner who wants you to play with him/her or make it look like you are so much better than they are because they will simply be turned off by the sport.

    we were all beginners at one point, none of us were born with some kind of natural ability to play the sports, you don't need to be a rocket scientist or a nuclear physicist to know that.

    on to other things:

    about the issue of shouting, some players just do that to pump them up. i do it all the time, it pumps me up, there is nothing wrong with it and there are no rules against it unless it goes excess.

    nylon shuttles suck!! i totally agree with Phil on this one, they move so much differently than feather shuttles and almost everyone can make a good or okay backhand shot without much technique using a plastic shuttle. one time, this guy said that he was going to propose an idea to IBF to save money by switching to plastic birds, i laughed my head off sooo hard!! imagine pro badminton with nylon shuttles!!!

    hypnoweb, people who smash like crazy and try to act all good in warm up are just going to tire themselves out, that is stupid of them to be playing like that and it's only going to work in your favour in the match when you are playing them, so it's all good isn't it?

    Just my two cents.


    Quote Originally Posted by david14700
    First of all, I'm surprised by how much some people hate playing with beginners (or even intermediate club players). Yeah, you might not get a game, you might not even get a single good rally, but from the beginner's point of view, you can give them a really good learning experience. I belong to several different clubs, and a couple have very wide differences in levels, from beginners to U18 national players. I may only have to play 1 or 2 games with beginners in a session, but I always try to play to keep the rallies going and to push the beginners quite hard. Of course, you can kill everything at the net or smash hard knowing they won't be able to return it, but what good does that do anyone? Usually, beginners are not used to rallies lasting more than 5-10 shots, so if you can keep it going longer by playing slightly easier shots for them to reach, they can get more practice at longer rallies, improve their footwork, etc. Same for mixed, when I play with a lady player who is not my mixed team partner and who is not a competitive player, I usually ask if we can play level doubles so that she gets just as much time hitting from the back of the court. I'm sure she wants to improve her game as well and will enjoy it a lot more than if she was just stuck at the net the whole game.

    What I really hate is when I see strong players playing with 'lesser' players, and the strong players make it obvious that they are not interested in the game - they don't keep score, they look at what's happening on other courts, they have their racket down and feet flat in a 'I don't care' pose for most of the game. It's just so ill-mannered if nothing else.

    Oh, and I do HATE the snobbery of elitist private clubs, but must admit I have played in plenty of them as a guest and I LUUURRVE purpose-built badminton courts with specialist lighting and floors. It's like heaven... If I ever win the lottery the first thing on my shopping list is that Yonex court mat...

  8. #76
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    I once asked a person in trades how much it would cost to turn my basement into one badminton court, he said without the court, just lowering and such, it would cost $50,000!

    if i win loterry, i'll do that right away and all you Toronto BF'ers are welcome at my place, LOL

  9. #77
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    agree. in fact, i quite enjoy playing with beginners, but especially the ones who are moving into intermediate level. i find that players at this level are usually the ones who work hard in their game and also friendly at the same time. they will try hard to attempt all shots, although they don't always have the best returns, they can keep a good rally going and they don't give up. if they lose, they won't hold any grudge and smiles.

    in general, i like most of their attitude. sure, i can beat them if i really want to, but i try to prolong the rally without being arrogant about it. i also partner with janet who's also at the same level but a girl. so the combination works quite well.

    i also noticed that somehow when one moves into the intermediate and beyond, they grow too competitive and starts to grow an attitude. perhaps that's a phase that ppl go into.

  10. #78
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    Yup I have noticed this as well, once they improve a bit they seem to think they are better than most other players and have an air of arrogance about them.

    As a coach I like playing with beginners because if you help them you can avoid them making bad habits at the start of their playing duration but you need to strike a good balance if you give them too much they will either turn into a sponge sucking information out of you and never stop asking questions or resenting your help. Sometimes it's difficult to win.

    Best thing is to give a few pointers and leave it at that.

  11. #79
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    Sounds like most people hate playing with intermediate players rather than beginners!

    At VRC, perhaps because of the wide spectrum of skill levels there, one of the tactics all the intermediate players develop and deploy is isolation. Some players want to win so badly that they use nothing but isolation from game to game. If you're playing in a game with weaker players, you most likely will end up just standing there looking really bored, watching the other courts, and looking rather arrogant whether you want to or not because your opponents will do anything to keep the shuttle away from you . Sure it's a good tactic for tournament play but when you're just out there to have some fun, it gets old really fast. Perhaps it's partly why I've heard people say the atmosphere at VRC is "too competitive".

  12. #80
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    It happened to me a few times... I was the stronger player of the group and basically had to poach for my shots. If they knew me well, I won't even get a single shot if they didn't have to serve to me.

    Playing with newbies, I would try to hasten the agony... deploying fast clears and drops with a rare occasional smash. Ironically, I kept better track of the scores when I played with newbies than with experienced players. As for this practice being cruel to newbies and low intermediates, I don't think it's any fun if any of us are not having fun. If I give advice to them, they'll resent me. If I slow down my pace for them, my form will suffer and bad habits reinforced. It's a no-win situation for all parties involved. Skill level discrepancies within the group can't be too wide if a decent game is to be played.

    Quote Originally Posted by timeless
    Sounds like most people hate playing with intermediate players rather than beginners!

    At VRC, perhaps because of the wide spectrum of skill levels there, one of the tactics all the intermediate players develop and deploy is isolation. Some players want to win so badly that they use nothing but isolation from game to game. If you're playing in a game with weaker players, you most likely will end up just standing there looking really bored, watching the other courts, and looking rather arrogant whether you want to or not because your opponents will do anything to keep the shuttle away from you . Sure it's a good tactic for tournament play but when you're just out there to have some fun, it gets old really fast. Perhaps it's partly why I've heard people say the atmosphere at VRC is "too competitive".
    Last edited by cappy75; 04-09-2004 at 11:22 AM.

  13. #81
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    The most annoying thing about badminton is that, everytime I play with Newbies, they would often clash my rackets, and sometimes, even just hit the feather of a new AS-40 -> result in changes of shuttle very quickly

    Other than those, I would also think this is a very expensive sports.....I just wish all racket and shuttles are 50% off of the price right now....
    (Then, I will probably collect 2X more rackets )

  14. #82
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    It's a legitimate strategy to target the weak link in a doubles match. Nobody should be upset about that, not the stronger player nor the weaker player. Whenever I'm the weaker of the doubles team and the opponents target me, I target the weaker of the opponents and we end up playing a singles match on half court. However boring that may be for the other players, they should focus on the game and position themselves in such a way to make it easier for their partner. For instance, let the weaker player clear to the backhand side of the opponent and the stronger player moves to the net to kill off a weak backhand return. Or let the weaker player stay in front and the stronger player can dominate from the back court. There is no way that the opponents could keep playing drop shots.

    I've read about a lot of pet peeves on this thread and I really think that you shouldn't let yourself be distracted by bad manners or rude behavior. Don't let your opponents throw you off your game. Some players resort to dubious line calls or they question your service or net plays, anything to get on your nerves so that you get emotional and start making mistakes. If you do, they win the mental game. As for me, I'd always ask for a let whenever there's a dubious call. Nobody can disagree about that. And if you're playing in a tournament you can ask for a referee if the situation gets out of hand.

  15. #83
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    Default Watching the birdie is not fun... while you're on the court

    It gets tiresome after awhile and you'll end up resenting the other players for wasting 20mins of your time and money (rented court). Your partners will resent your unsolicited advice and apparent pushiness, and the best part is... you get to repeat it all over again with a new newbie partner.

    Targeting the weaker link of the opposition is a legitimate and accepted tactic in tournaments, but it is overkill during regular club plays where you just want to have fun socializing and playing. Isolation tactic is not fun no matter how you put it, and one wonders why badder cliquiness is so common. To avoid this frustration in the first place, people seek compatibles to balance their groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by novl
    It's a legitimate strategy to target the weak link in a doubles match. Nobody should be upset about that, not the stronger player nor the weaker player. Whenever I'm the weaker of the doubles team and the opponents target me, I target the weaker of the opponents and we end up playing a singles match on half court. However boring that may be for the other players, they should focus on the game and position themselves in such a way to make it easier for their partner. For instance, let the weaker player clear to the backhand side of the opponent and the stronger player moves to the net to kill off a weak backhand return. Or let the weaker player stay in front and the stronger player can dominate from the back court. There is no way that the opponents could keep playing drop shots.

    I've read about a lot of pet peeves on this thread and I really think that you shouldn't let yourself be distracted by bad manners or rude behavior. Don't let your opponents throw you off your game. Some players resort to dubious line calls or they question your service or net plays, anything to get on your nerves so that you get emotional and start making mistakes. If you do, they win the mental game. As for me, I'd always ask for a let whenever there's a dubious call. Nobody can disagree about that. And if you're playing in a tournament you can ask for a referee if the situation gets out of hand.

  16. #84
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    Cappy, that's right. Players are cliquish because they prefer to play at their own level or with their friends. For those who are left out, a few suggestions which I picked up in my tennis days. At the moment, I'm a member of 2 badminton clubs where you can play as long as you want. Just now do I realize how lucky I am after reading all these messages about limited playing times. In Amsterdam, you can choose from at least 8 badminton clubs which are within 20 minutes from each other. Plenty of choice to find a club that really fits your needs. When I used to play tennis, it was a totally different story. Although there are more tennis clubs to choose from around here, they are much more crowded so there is always less time to play. At one club they hang up time schedules on the court with 1 hour time slots. So every player hangs up a numbered sign on the slot to assure a place on court. This way, there's no cheating possible. With badminton, you could consider 20-30 minute time slots. As for the isolation problem, I used to play at a small club where the manager was always present and knew everybody. He took care of the new players and also those who didn't have partners. He assigned the teams so they were evenly balanced. If this doesn't work out, you can form a group of compatible players and rent a court yourself. This is what happened at my tennis club with the good players who didn't want to play with the weaker ones.

  17. #85
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    The thing that bothers me is that players often say to get better you have to play players that are better in order to improve on court, if that is the case why then do so many dislike playing with weaker players after all they have the same mentality of playing better players!

    I think it is just plain arrogance on the part of these individulas, only wanting to play better players in order to improve their own game completely disregarding others who are "less better" in their own mind especially on club nights!

    Also you see players refusing to play with others and waiting off to pick their opposition on club nights and even worse inviting certain players to an extra club night say for instance a Wednesday which is subsidised from the main club night say for instance a Monday but all the players from the Monday are not invited but end up paying for the Clique to play!

    It makes me
    Last edited by Dill; 04-10-2004 at 06:34 AM. Reason: Forgot a bit

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