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  1. #35
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    nobody here said that the match between raj and lcw would be the same as raj and joj

    that is, with coach kenneth around.....

    i think its only you, ctjcad asking whether that would helps

    i am sure you knew the answer before they play.

    credit still goes to coach kenneth for the raj/joj match

  2. #36
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    coach kenneth was around between LCW vs. Rajiv match...why different result?...
    credit goes to coach kenneth for the RO vs. JOJ match but how much? 50%?, 33%? 75%?..
    i'd say credit goes more to Rajiv and partly to JOJ for playing below his standard...coach Kenneth gets 1/3 of the credit, in my book..

  3. #37
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    why different result?

    i am very surprise for a question like that

    i hope somebody here can answer you that

  4. #38
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    yes, please, someone else help answer that..

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    right, total dominance even the commentator did mentioned a one way street, that probably could be raj could not settle down even though his coach did try his best to help him he could have played better and there were some shots from him really caught lcw - anticipated lcw smash with a cross court net return

    actually this guy has the skill but not the movement speed yet
    Would we expect anything less than total dominance? LCW is number 1 and way above Raj standard.

    You are right Raj skill is above average for his level, but his speed/agility is below average for his level. If this can improve he will get better results.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    IMO, coaches or their "good tips" only play 1/3 of the result. The skill level and how ready the player is, physically and mentally, will decide the outcome.
    Really? 1/3 of result down to coach? If I had good coach ith good tips then I would be able to beat a lot better players? I think the coaches job on sidelines should be mainly confidence boosting. Coaches main role is in the training court techncally, mentally during the game.

    I wouldn't expect KJ to be making any ENG players up to LCW level - if he does he will be a genius coach, but I doubt he will. KJ can't be judged on 1 performace agains JOJ...

  6. #40
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    Would we expect anything less than total dominance? LCW is number 1 and way above Raj standard.

    You are right Raj skill is above average for his level, but his speed/agility is below average for his level. If this can improve he will get better results.



    Really? 1/3 of result down to coach? If I had good coach ith good tips then I would be able to beat a lot better players? I think the coaches job on sidelines should be mainly confidence boosting. Coaches main role is in the training court techncally, mentally during the game.

    I wouldn't expect KJ to be making any ENG players up to LCW level - if he does he will be a genius coach, but I doubt he will. KJ can't be judged on 1 performace agains JOJ...
    yes, lcw's standard is above that of raj

    if only raj could have steady himself he could have got more points instead

    as for kenneth helping raj against joj, his tips were important

    you all forgot they are from the same kampong (village)!

  7. #41
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    ...Really? 1/3 of result down to coach? If I had good coach ith good tips then I would be able to beat a lot better players? I think the coaches job on sidelines should be mainly confidence boosting. Coaches main role is in the training court techncally, mentally during the game.

    I wouldn't expect KJ to be making any ENG players up to LCW level - if he does he will be a genius coach, but I doubt he will. KJ can't be judged on 1 performace agains JOJ...
    - Hmm, surprised jamesd20 didn't see my whole point and only pointed to that portion. Actually i've mentioned the whole point in post #34 and #36.
    - What's wrong with 1/3%? too low? or too much?....how much percentage would you give to KJ/a coach as credit?..

    I'll give another illustration:
    TH has had basically the same coach for the last 10 or so yrs. He won the WC and OG back in 2004 and 2005 (and maybe 2006 AG). Then why up until now, he hasn't won anything bigger yet since? Not even a SS title?..Is it really because his coach hasn't given him enough good tips??..Who's responsibility is that?..
    And yes, i concur we can't judge KJ with Rajiv's 1 win over JOJ..

  8. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    - Hmm, surprised jamesd20 didn't see my whole point and only pointed to that portion. Actually i've mentioned the whole point in post #34 and #36.
    - What's wrong with 1/3%? too low? or too much?....how much percentage would you give to KJ/a coach as credit?..

    I'll give another illustration:
    TH has had basically the same coach for the last 10 or so yrs. He won the WC and OG back in 2004 and 2005 (and maybe 2006 AG). Then why up until now, he hasn't won anything bigger yet since? Not even a SS title?..Is it really because his coach hasn't given him enough good tips??..Who's responsibility is that?..
    And yes, i concur we can't judge KJ with Rajiv's 1 win over JOJ..
    Sorry it seems jamesd20 is a bit slow today...I don't understand your whole point.

    Putting % credit to coach on players is impossible. I would say 33% is high however. From beginner stage naturally coachin is 100%, but once professional player it is as I say impossible to tell.

    TH is TH. He plays and trains in fits & spurts. When you play for so many years your desire naturally will come & go. The coach is the constant in Taufik life & can be credited quite a lot, since he has won everything except AE...

    When coaches come & go in players lives it is harder. The ENG MS players have had many coaches over the past few years....there performances however are much the same. KJ acts as catalyst in motivation as he is a great player they look upto and respect, but it is in 2-3 years he should be judged/credited If he has "turned" Raj into a constant in the top 10 and reaching finals/maybe winning some SS events, then he has accomplished a great achievment. If Raj goes out in 1st, 2nd round mostly, maybe reach a few QF/SF and is in the top 20-30, then I would suggest there has been little impact.

  9. #43
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Up to the players (incl. opponent) to decide the outcome..

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    Sorry it seems jamesd20 is a bit slow today...I don't understand your whole point.

    Putting % credit to coach on players is impossible. I would say 33% is high however. From beginner stage naturally coachin is 100%, but once professional player it is as I say impossible to tell.

    TH is TH. He plays and trains in fits & spurts. When you play for so many years your desire naturally will come & go. The coach is the constant in Taufik life & can be credited quite a lot, since he has won everything except AE...
    ...
    - I'll highlight the parts in bold, in my 2 posts below, to show you my point.
    - Yes, i'm referring to pro players level not beginner level stage.
    - I brought up the TH example w/the same coach to show that a coach plays minimal impact in a pro players performance. At least, to me, it's 33%. For you maybe less, that's fine.
    - Also notice the 6th post before post #34, why no mention of credit also goes to the players (Rajiv and to an extent JOJ for playing below par)? Aren't they the ones who executed and determined the outcome? If credit given to coach Kenneth, how much?..
    - If i recall, Kenneth was already part of the ENG coaching staff prior to this yr's European Championships. Guess what, Rajiv played vs. JOJ and Rajiv lost in straight games. Add to that, it was their first meeting. I thought KJ would already give JOJ lots of tips already by then if one wants to use the argument that KJ knows JOJ. This was actually their 2nd meeting since KJ joined the ENG squad.
    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ...The way i look at it, it's gonna be mostly up to the players to decide the outcome. Forget abt this coach or that coach giving good tips. Yes, between JOJ and Rajiv, receiving "good tips" might work to an extent as both players are about the same level. But it'll always come down to the players themselves (the skill level of the opponent, how prepared the opponent is, how experienced the opponent is). IMO, coaches or their "good tips" only play 1/3 of the result. The skill level and how ready the player is, physically and mentally, will decide the outcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    coach kenneth was around between LCW vs. Rajiv match...why different result?...
    credit goes to coach kenneth for the RO vs. JOJ match but how much? 50%?, 33%? 75%?..
    i'd say credit goes more to Rajiv and partly to JOJ for playing below his standard...coach Kenneth gets 1/3 of the credit, in my book..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 08-28-2010 at 02:37 AM.

  10. #44
    Regular Member lcleing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    - If i recall, Kenneth was already part of the ENG coaching staff prior to this yr's European Championships. Guess what, Rajiv played vs. JOJ and Rajiv lost in straight games. Add to that, it was their first meeting. I thought KJ would already give JOJ lots of tips already by then if one wants to use the argument that KJ knows JOJ. This was actually their 2nd meeting since KJ joined the ENG squad.
    KJ only joined Badminton England after the Thomas cup(2 months after European Championships). Part of the reason why RO can upset JOJ is because KJ knows JOJ's games inside out.

    As in why we got different results in both RO vs JOJ and RO vs LCW, I assumed you have been surfing the forum long enough to figure out why.
    As a general statement, the coach do play a big part in some players' performance. The coach is the one who design the training routines for the trainees and any wrong analysis from the coach part could hinder the player's development(we are not talking about training a player like Lin Dan caliber who has been on the top of the podium and knows what he should train to keep up). And trust in your coach is very important, if you do not trust your coach(doubt his caliber because he doesn't has olympic medals under his belt), you will start to doubt your own game and your coach analysis and that's a physcology disadvantage when you are playing on court.

  11. #45
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcleing View Post
    KJ only joined Badminton England after the Thomas cup(2 months after European Championships). Part of the reason why RO can upset JOJ is because KJ knows JOJ's games inside out.

    As in why we got different results in both RO vs JOJ and RO vs LCW, I assumed you have been surfing the forum long enough to figure out why.
    As a general statement, the coach do play a big part in some players' performance. The coach is the one who design the training routines for the trainees and any wrong analysis from the coach part could hinder the player's development(we are not talking about training a player like Lin Dan caliber who has been on the top of the podium and knows what he should train to keep up). And trust in your coach is very important, if you do not trust your coach(doubt his caliber because he doesn't has olympic medals under his belt), you will start to doubt your own game and your coach analysis and that's a physcology disadvantage when you are playing on court.
    - Okay (just checked an article to confirm that). But i still think for the most part and at the end, it comes down to execution from the players (RO and JOJ). KJ giving tips to RO probably only plays a very small part (1st time RO with KJ vs. JOJ). Where's the credit to RO and to an extent JOJ (for not playing up to his standard)? If it's as easy as the tips given by KJ, in deciding the outcome, then RO probably could've won 21-10, 21-10; considering JOJ and RO are probably even in playing level...anyway, we'll see the next time around they meet.
    - Mind explaining LD's loss vs. PSH, with TXH and XXZ sitting there & coaching him? I think putting the emphasis on coaches as a big factor or part, even in some players' performance is a bit overrated, esp. with pros. By doing that, it implies, whether a player wins or loses, the results depend on his or her coach. IMO, it'll always come down to mostly the players (and the opponents) to perform and decide the result. A good example is, will assigning TXH and/or XXZ to a player like Nguyen Tien Minh transform him to a world beater like LD?..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 09-03-2010 at 01:49 PM.

  12. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    Mind explaining LD's loss vs. PSH, with TXH and XXZ sitting there & coaching him? I think putting the emphasis on coaches as a big factor or part, even in some players' performance is a bit overrated, esp. with pros. By doing that, it implies, whether a player wins or loses, the results depend on his or her coach. IMO, it'll always come down to mostly the players (and the opponents) to perform and decide the result. A good example is, will assigning TXH and/or XXZ to a player like Nguyen Tien Minh transform him to a world beater like LD?..
    My thoughts on LD were made clear in AE. I am puzzled why LYB brought TXH to WC. Maybe he thinks he is the magic tonic - I still think he is, but the player must be in the right state of mind.

    With respect to the NTM idea - that I would like to see. I think he would be very motivated by being coached by XXZ & TXH and I tihnk he has great basics (speed, gernal techniques etc..) he just needs to piece it all together. Never going to happen, but on a different level is is a similar situation with RO & KJ. RO will play out of his skin to impress the great player.

  13. #47
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    My thoughts on LD were made clear in AE. I am puzzled why LYB brought TXH to WC. Maybe he thinks he is the magic tonic - I still think he is, but the player must be in the right state of mind.

    With respect to the NTM idea - that I would like to see. I think he would be very motivated by being coached by XXZ & TXH and I tihnk he has great basics (speed, gernal techniques etc..) he just needs to piece it all together. Never going to happen, but on a different level is is a similar situation with RO & KJ. RO will play out of his skin to impress the great player.
    i don't think ntm giving enough time he could be a world beater if he is in the hands of xxz & txh.

    why txh only go for lin dan?

    i think there must be some specific reasons

  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    i don't think ntm giving enough time he could be a world beater if he is in the hands of xxz & txh.

    why txh only go for lin dan?

    i think there must be some specific reasons
    Don't understand first line, sorry.

    Maybe TXH take partner for romantic week in Paris, just called by the stadium?!

  15. #49
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    Don't understand first line, sorry.

    Maybe TXH take partner for romantic week in Paris, just called by the stadium?!
    i think txh is concentrating on lin dan more than other,

    you think there is any specific reasons behind?

  16. #50
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Kenneth's current pupil, Carl Baxter, just lost to Kenneth's ex-teammate, Joachim Persson, in straight games..
    what happened??..did Kenneth forget to give enough playing tips to Carl??..

  17. #51
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    I sincerely hope Kenneth will bring the English players to a higher level, on par with those top players from China , Malaysia, korea, Indonesia, and of course Denmark.
    Last edited by drifit; 01-05-2011 at 03:38 AM.

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