Chai Biao ( 柴飚 ) / Zhang Nan ( 张楠 )

**j4ckie** · 09-17-2012, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Qidong

I think Zhang Nan may not spend a lot of time with CB is mainly because being part of the best XD team in the world, Zhang Nan will play a lot of of XD matches. I'm not sure if he has energy to play both MD and XD.

But after watching the China Master, ZN/CB seems to be more promising to replace CY/FHF than CB/GZD and HW/SY. But still ZN is lack of power and CB is still very inconsistent. It will be a tough decision for the Chinese coaches.

ZN doesnt lack power - hes just not a smasher. Compared to Cai Yun, his smash could still use some work, but is already okay, and he is definitely the thinker in the combination. Chai Biao really needs to work on his consistency though, quite a few unforced errors from the back against the Japanese pair in the final...

**willsabeefcake** · 09-17-2012, 10:25 AM

I really liked them when they first started playing together before ZN became known for XD (all England 2010 victory that set them off? Weren't even seeded for the tournament were they/ came through qualifiers??)

Good, exciting pair to watch I think it's a shame CB has been left behind somewhat being partnered with GZD (I'm not a fan, bit of a jack of all trades although there's nothing wrong with that...) whereas ZN has flourished playing for the big prizes in big tournaments so he's a lot calmer/ head strong.

Also don't agree about the smashing, can't be a chinese mixed mens player and not have a good smash! He's just one of those that uses half smashes to set up further shots as opposed to hitting away and hoping for a weak return.

Hope to see them play further games togeth, IMO I'd rather ZN focus on MD as the pair to take over from CY/FHF as I don't think there's much else to pick from? Hong Wei /Chen Yu are a good pair but are nowhere near the standards of these two! Plus I think a strong enough pair in the mixed of XC/MJ wouldn't you rather have two world number 1's in two disciplines (mens and mixed) as opposed to world 1&2 in one (mixed)?

**j4ckie** · 09-17-2012, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by willsabeefcake

I really liked them when they first started playing together before ZN became known for XD (all England 2010 victory that set them off? Weren't even seeded for the tournament were they/ came through qualifiers??)

Good, exciting pair to watch I think it's a shame CB has been left behind somewhat being partnered with GZD (I'm not a fan, bit of a jack of all trades although there's nothing wrong with that...) whereas ZN has flourished playing for the big prizes in big tournaments so he's a lot calmer/ head strong.

Also don't agree about the smashing, can't be a chinese mixed mens player and not have a good smash! He's just one of those that uses half smashes to set up further shots as opposed to hitting away and hoping for a weak return.

Hope to see them play further games togeth, IMO I'd rather ZN focus on MD as the pair to take over from CY/FHF as I don't think there's much else to pick from? Hong Wei /Chen Yu are a good pair but are nowhere near the standards of these two! Plus I think a strong enough pair in the mixed of XC/MJ wouldn't you rather have two world number 1's in two disciplines (mens and mixed) as opposed to world 1&2 in one (mixed)?

From the Chinese perspective ZN playing XD is better than him partnering up with CB for MD. In XD, he and ZYL are completely dominant when in form, whereas in MD, he and CB have still to improve quite noticeably if they want to capture that #1 spot.
I think it was a good move to split them for a while, as ZN flourished in XD and as a result is a very tactical and dangerous MD player (much better awareness than when they started out) whereas CB being partnered up with GZD helped him get more consistent as GZD is a reliable, experienced, calm player (if not real champion material). Giving them another shot now is good, but CB showed that he STILL has long ways to go if he hopes to take over from CY/FHF (especially Fu as they're both smashers). He lost patience way too early and made a bunch of errors in the tournament, which will cost them the match against better pairs (Top 2 Korean pairs or the Danes for example).
Also we'll have to see how they perform against the other top pairs as in this tournament they only played Chinese and Japanese pairs, who like to play at the same high pace/defend a lot, a more tactical pair like BoMo will probably beat them quite convincingly as they're not very experienced and not dont know each other so well yet.
Exciting pair to watch though, that's for sure! Very excited to see how far they can go

**badders2006** · 09-17-2012, 11:36 AM

i dont think GZD is as cool and calm as people make him out to be.

I think his limiting factor is not just his physical ability (he's simply not as talented as the A team players) but his lack of mental strength. I think he "bottles" it in the big pressure situations. Which goes back to the point that he is not true champion material.

Anyway, as you all know I've never been a fan of him. A solid B team player who fills the gaps when needed.

CHN definitely now looking for the replacement to FHY/CY - ZN and CB are as promising and full of potential as CHN can get for now!!!

**Qidong** · 09-17-2012, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by willsabeefcake

...

Also don't agree about the smashing, can't be a chinese mixed mens player and not have a good smash! He's just one of those that uses half smashes to set up further shots as opposed to hitting away and hoping for a weak return.

...

I agree placement is more important than power when smashing from the back court. But from watching the MD final, ZN failed to win a point smashing from half court a few times. It rarely happened to other top MD players including CY.

But ZN is definitely one of the best double players right now in both MD and XD. He is a very smart player.

**zhuangcorp** · 10-22-2012, 04:19 PM

I really like this pairing and hope that they can be World Champions. They both look like winners and have the championship mindset.

Fu/Cai will be hard shoes to fill though, they may never reach that level. But I think they can be world #1 team dependent on Zhang Nan. If Zhang Nan can learn to intercept the net the way Cai Yun does, this team will be #1. I dont think he's at Cai Yun's net level yet.

But I hope this team can challenge Lee Yong Dae and the top Koreans.

**j4ckie** · 10-22-2012, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by zhuangcorp

I really like this pairing and hope that they can be World Champions. They both look like winners and have the championship mindset.

Fu/Cai will be hard shoes to fill though, they may never reach that level. But I think they can be world #1 team dependent on Zhang Nan. If Zhang Nan can learn to intercept the net the way Cai Yun does, this team will be #1. I dont think he's at Cai Yun's net level yet.

But I hope this team can challenge Lee Yong Dae and the top Koreans.

Bigger problem will be Chai Biao's inconsistency. He was really unstable in their match against Hayakawa/Endo. He really needs to get rid of his tendency to go to the net and smash the shuttle with a big motion...causes many errors. Zhang Nan is already at a very high level at the net, just continuing his current training regime and playing MD tournaments will probably be enough to enable him to take anybody but a LYD on a good day (or maybe KKK if he finally gets his act together).

**zhuangcorp** · 10-22-2012, 05:04 PM

Chai Biao is inconsistent, but so is Fu Haifeng and Jung Jae song. I think thats just the nature of the backcourt smashing player: they have raw power but dont play as intelligently or consistently. So I suspect Chai Biao will always be a little inconsistent, like Fu and Jung.

That's why, to me, the success of this team depends on the play of Zhang Nan at net, while Chai Biao just needs to work hard from the back.

**j4ckie** · 10-22-2012, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by zhuangcorp

Chai Biao is inconsistent, but so is Fu Haifeng and Jung Jae song. I think thats just the nature of the backcourt smashing player: they have raw power but dont play as intelligently or consistently. So I suspect Chai Biao will always be a little inconsistent, like Fu and Jung.

That's why, to me, the success of this team depends on the play of Zhang Nan at net, while Chai Biao just needs to work hard from the back.

Well his inconsistency is far more pronounced than any other good smasher. He fluffed up the easiest kills because he wanted to put them trough his opponents rather than angle them down before their defense...I'm not saying he should become a net player, but he really needs to cut down on unnecessary, easy mistakes like that. Stay disciplined and patient when he gets a good chance at the net and NOT follow his instinct and go for an all-out smash

I agree that they can become a great pair, btw

**yayachico** · 10-23-2012, 04:12 AM

FHF and JJS might be a little inconsistent at times but you rarely see them miss any hard smashes.. They both can smash n smash for 10times or more at one go... their weakness might be their defense, esp FHF... but others, they are the best at what they do.. Unlike TBH, he might be a great backcourt player last time but that was history.. He hardly smash from the back of the court.. once or twice at one go but never more than 3times. Lack of stamina and i'm glad that he knows it so not to push it.
I still like to see CY/FHF vs LYD/JJS.. they bring mens doubles to a whole new level whenever they meet... Never fail to give the crowd a badminton match of a lifetime.. Wonder which 2pairs can replace the level they played at.

**j4ckie** · 10-23-2012, 06:16 AM

Wrong thread? This is about CB/ZN

And defense wasn't CJS's weakness, btw. His netplay was. His defense was superb!

**yayachico** · 10-23-2012, 08:26 AM

i was merely pointing out that being inconsistent is not that big of a problem, CB is young, he will improve... JJS's defense is sometimes a bit out.. he swings it to the next court! well, not exactly next court, you know what i mean... anyway, lets see how CB turns out in a couple of years, he is improving and with a good partner, he will get better...

**j4ckie** · 10-23-2012, 07:28 PM

That remains to be seen - it's often wrong choices of shot, and some players somehow can't get past that and continue to choose wrong shots or keep other flaws (an example would be Kido, who still goes to the net with his racket around his ankles, and tries to play very very fancy shots and often brings his partnership into big trouble with those habits).
Hope that they (ZN/CB) can pose a threat to the new top pairs though, so that China doesn't disappear from the MD scene again and have to wait another 2 decades for the new CY/FHF to emerge

**zhuangcorp** · 10-25-2012, 12:06 PM

CB/ZN got revenge on the Japanese pair that beat them in Denmark last week.

They are proving that they are already a top 5 pair in the world, having beaten the top 2 Japanense teams in the world already.

**j4ckie** · 10-25-2012, 06:44 PM

beating certain pairs doesnt automatically make you a top anything pair

but i agree they have great potential.

**SibugiChai** · 10-25-2012, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by zhuangcorp

CB/ZN got revenge on the Japanese pair that beat them in Denmark last week.They are proving that they are already a top 5 pair in the world, having beaten the top 2 Japanense teams in the world already.

top5... That's too early to tell... 3koreans pair, bomo, kootan, Indonesian and caifu... There are already 7pairs better than them at this moment

**zhuangcorp** · 10-25-2012, 08:48 PM

Well, the Japanese pair they beat is ranked 7 in the world. There's no Korean pairs above them, as both pairs have been disolved since JJS retired. Bo/Mo are fairly old, and seem to be slowing down a lot after the Olympics. CB/GZD is disolved. I think the top indonesian pair is dissolved as well.

Endo/Hayakawa are the 4th ranked active pair in the world. CB/ZN beat them, so they that indicates to be that they are top 5 level already. If they beat Kim/Kim tomorrow, I think that solidifies them as top 5.