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Thread: The sky has finally fallen...
07-23-2011, 01:46 PM #426
March 20, 2006: He said: “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and
grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
fast forward 5 yrs later and apparently he regretted saying and vetoing for that (that his vote was a political move):
Simply unqualified, clueless on how to handle economy..
07-28-2011, 01:00 PM #427
Interesting artical to read.
Please note the 2 paragraphs.
Many of the newly insured people under the health care law will be younger and healthier, so they cost less. Over a million young adults under age 26 have already gained coverage through their parents' insurance. Millions more will get insurance when the law's big coverage expansion kicks off in 2014.
That year, health care spending will jump by 8 percent. But over the 2010-2020 period covered by the estimate, the average yearly growth in spending will be only 0.1 percentage point higher than without Obama's overhaul. Most of the newly insured are not expected to require much pricey hospital care, generally needing only doctor visits and prescription drugs.
So, where is the saving? If you have a car that is broken and can only di 25mph. After fix you can now go 26mph, is it a fix while you need to drive 100 mile in 2 hr?
Hope and change.
07-28-2011, 07:05 PM #428
I have read this thread (and the sky is falling oldie) with greate interest, and I get somewhat curios about how Silenthart and Ctjcad think USA should fix its economic problem? Do you really think that massive overspending compared to what is produced in your country is primarily caused by poor leadership by Obama?? Is that your view, or did I missunderstand?
Where (if) you think cuts should be made to balance the budget? Public healthcare (793 billons)?, Military (689 billions)?, Social Security (600 billions)?, Homeland Security (57 billions)?, Central Intelligence (55? billions), Other mandatory spending (for example, federal civilian and military retirement benefits, Food Stamps, unemployment compensation, and veterans’ benefits... 400 billions). discretionary spendings (like education grants, housing, highways, and national parks etc, 550? billions?)... Cost of bailouts? etc?
I am Curios..
Last edited by twobeer; 07-28-2011 at 07:12 PM.
07-28-2011, 07:05 PM #429
Last edited by twobeer; 07-28-2011 at 07:09 PM. Reason: delete
07-29-2011, 12:08 AM #430
Camon, just spend it. The world will be happy ever after. More jobs created and nobody gets hurt. If not, many already hurted.. hurted...since day 1 of deficit. lol.
07-29-2011, 01:44 AM #431
I'm just still wondering why this debt ceiling stuff is dragged into political drama. I don't know who's to blame, the system or the politicians? Both ways I just don't understand the purpose of it all, it's totally not needed. Even Boehner does not even have enough vote from his own party, how funny is that? And now the world have to share this heavy burden of this crappy thing.
07-29-2011, 01:50 AM #432
its a movie. malaysian calls it 'wayang'. another word is 'if you look serious, you will be an important person'. lol
07-29-2011, 01:54 AM #433
Every "Wayang" must have a "Dalang", unfortunately this US drama don't have a "Dalang", so who's running the show? No one. How scarry is that? LOL
07-29-2011, 01:56 AM #434
Maybe uncle Sam need to phone Steven Speilberg to get advice on how to stage a happy ending
07-29-2011, 02:01 AM #435
yeah. good idea.
07-29-2011, 01:38 PM #436
..if you read the U.S. history and if you've read earlier, it (the debt/deficit) all started much earlier on, way earlier than OWEbama, Dubya, Bubba Clinton, Bush Sr. Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon tenures (should i go on?)..Basically just around WWI (during or after); everytime the U.S. went into war, the Congress would raise the debt-ceiling..it would continue on, into after the Great Depression (then the New Deal; SS and Medicare/Medicaid, they all started as programs "to benefit the people for the long term" but got out of control and the politicians used those 2 entitlement programs for their politicial benefit) then into WW2..
For OWEbama, he and his Dems led Congress (they actually controlled the govt. purse during Dubya's last couple of yrs) basically made the spending worse (i'm sure you've read all the reports out there)..
IMO, Right now, there's no realistic way to fix it and no way to bring it back to pre-debt/deficit period (that's answer to your 2nd query), even if the Congress all of a sudden raise the tax rate to 100% for every individual/corporations...If they cut spending 100%, there'll be more than a massive protest on the street..
*Here's an ideal way to fix it~it comes down to the Congress themselves:
There's only 1 thing which can simultaneously eliminate the deficit, pay down the debt, cut taxes and build a reserve fund for emergencies.
And that is for the Congress to use their income. They get about $2 tril per year.
If they would just reserve $.06 of each dollar, they can use 3 cents to pay down the debt and 3 cents to cut taxes and build reserve funds for emergencies.
If they do that every yr, they can pay down the debt eventually..but nah, that ain't happening..
What's gonna happen, yes, 1 world monetary system coming up (since debt will keep piling up)..
Last edited by ctjcad; 07-29-2011 at 01:51 PM.
07-29-2011, 01:47 PM #437
What do you really think? Do you think it's okay for U.S. to go into default, since even if the govt. raises the debt ceiling by the 11th hr, the U.S. credit score rating will be hit anyway?..
07-29-2011, 04:35 PM #438
Thank you for posting your thought and giving me the opportunity to reply. I would like to have this over 2 beers. But the distance is a little issue. Anyway, here is my opinion. (just like @sshole, everybody has one. Just mine stink more than others).
1) Broke Obama did not started the deficit. The 10+ presidents before him did. On top of the the whole thing, it become worse. He will claim he is not the cause of a lot of problems, he inherited them. the wishful thinker voted him in believed he will fix the problem. I did not vote for him. If you ask me, Will Johnny Mc will do better? I will say not worse. At lease we will have a inflation with econ that is tanking, not deflation with econ that is tanking and I have less money to spend.
I personally think his over spending in the wrong areas the main cause of the deficit going out of control. I have mentioned before, his spending on infrastructures/shuffle ready projects are waste of money. If he just dive up the money and give them to each one of the tax payers, people would a)spend the money, b)save them in the bank c)invest in stock market or d)put in under the mattress. a,b and c will all help the econ. d) is just stupid because you loose value of your money.
2) He has no experience and no clear direction. All he does is point out the obvious. Any body with some brain can do that. We need him or people under him to make right decision and direction to fix the economy. Till now he only tell people he want to have this problem fixed. He tell congress he want to have a balanced approach, please tell me, how balance? What is he welling to cut? How much? Nothing! he jsut call meeting and tell congress to do it. Sorry Mr. President, separation of powers. Congr@ss does not work for you.
These are just start of no leadership issue.
Regarding your question on how to fix the deficit. Here is what I would propose.
1) Expire the Bush tax cut, not just on the wealthy, but everyone that was affected. Cut the food stamps and other welfare program by 5%. Every one has to suffer on this. He can easily do so by letting it expire. If he is a man, just take it and raise the tax for everyone.
2) Either repeal the obama care or do it right by the book. Start by revoking antitrust exemption of health insurance comp. set the basic coverage every insurance company should offer with the rate that will have combine ratio of 95% (ie for every$ in premium, you spend $0.95 on claim or expenses) for open market to compete. Also, actually cut the payment by 40% to doc and hospitals as the medicare law intended to do. Or you go all the way like EU country, national health plan and every one has same thing to begin and every doc and hospital must take this plan. I can buy supplemental for better care if I can afford it.
3) Actually fix the SS by making the realistic assumptions on the life exp and other variables. Not just some number politicians tell the actuaries to over write.
4) Actually cut back on the military spending. Not just number game saying money saved from ending the war. Those are just BS.
5) cost of bailouts? they are money he and bush pissed down the toilet, they are gone and nothing you can do now. Just tax all capital gain as regular income. He is at mercy of congr@ss on this.
6) give me an option of pay my future tax now with interest. Gov can use it to pay down debt now. I can pay less tax in the future.
There are people who know what kind of person Obama is when he is in IL. many people in IL feel he is just like another IL politicians, just a crook.
I do value your opinions, please feel free to comment any of my point.
Have a nice (badminton) weekend.
07-29-2011, 05:26 PM #439
Also, one more point. I fault Obama for pointing out the obvious. Only vaguely speak of solution and can not even get the right thing done.
07-29-2011, 06:07 PM #440
Boehner proposal passed the house, so what's next? Will democrats kill it and come up with something? And so do we ever get this ceiling lifted?
07-29-2011, 06:18 PM #441
its a case if people or media want to prosecute USA I guess. But at the end, all happy ever after no matter what.
07-29-2011, 06:44 PM #442
Thanks for some interesting reading. Most of what you write and suggest makes alot of sense to me.
From an outsider point of view it seems a bit like a flawed system if the separation of powers often leads to non-descition-states when congress-majority and president are from different parties. I used to play chess a lot when I was younger, and the first thing I learned was that it is better to have a poor plan, than no plan at all..
1) Personally I think US has to raise taxes (I am a tax hater myself, living in tax-master-hell country of the world :-) ), probably mostly for middleclass and up, as this will generate the most money.. raising taxes on low income, may only move cost to welfare etc. point-taxes could of course be used "creatively".. like tax on saturated fatty food, envionment-tax on gas, added taxation on guns, cars, private-jets, churches, national VAT, tax on alcohol etc. etc.. There is no end to "evil" tax oppurtunities.. But some taxes like huge tax on cigarettes and huge tax on alcohol etc. are things that not only have negative effects overall.
I am not exactly familiar with how the food stamp program works, but I think cutting cost on people not having food for the day, is probably the last resort. However I was told that you can buy junkfood, and chips, soda, candy etc on food-stamps, which seems like a reall bad idea.. Maybe cost could be saved if the coupons where only viable to buy "real" food?
2) The whole healthcare-system seems to be messy. A goverment base-provided healthcare for everyone, and then insurances to get more are probably the "best" way, but it is hard to maintain quality and price performance without "real" competition in these systems.. and for people who can afford private insurance, it is sure annoying to pay lots of extra taxes for something that you don't need/want from the goverment.
4) Sounds logical. I think the world and US is better of with a strong US military, but I think US would probably be the world strongest military force by FAR with half the budget!! Sometimes it seems like money are just "wasted" into gears, operations, weaponary etc. the name of "patriotism" here, without much questions about price/performnce issues?
And the cost of Homeland Security seems staggering compared for example with the foodstamp program (about 75%).. Personally I would argue that giving poor americans food saves more lives than Homeland Security ever will do.
5) I would thinkt it cannot be impossible to tax or impose mandatory goverment funding from these companies profits, bonus-system etc. for management of future finacial crisis.
6) Very interesting idea.. But I suppose it is tricky to implement, as the future tax, and inflation etc. is an "unknown"?
Last edited by twobeer; 07-29-2011 at 06:52 PM.