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  1. #545
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    I'm surprised that you are now of so high praise of China.
    Those living in HKG before the takeover were obviously afraid that CHN will take away their private liberties, their jobs, etc, but had no chioce since they had nowhere else to go. Would you say the same then? The Chinese leadership has superior genes and high IQs that can also cause the Tiananmen incident?

    CHN should thank especially the West for buying it goods that enabled it to grow so fast. Yes Chinese goods were dirt cheap, inferior in quality, bad for health, etc, coupled with it's
    cheap currency which the IMF considers about 25% undervalued.

    Corruption was rife and cheating just to make a fast buck at the expense of quality and hygiene were not uncommon. So this is unfair trading when CHN's goods were about a
    quarter cheaper on currency alone. Other countries just could not compete, even the poor
    developing countries. So countless jobs were lost to the Chinese, yet CHN continues to
    enjoy this unfair advantage as the price and currency equilibrium have yet to be adjusted to acceptable world levels. So CHN wants to be admitted to the WTO on it's own terms? No
    way! What about the other countries poorer than CHN? So the blame goes to US as the
    convenient scapegoat.

    Yes CHN has some of the richest businessmen and women in the world but this all creates great income disparity in CHN with the poorest found in rural provinces, working in agriculture.

    In the recent ASEAN summit, CHN refused to discuss issues concerning how to resolve disputes on common ownership of islands in Southeast Asia and this caused a rift among this hitherto closely-knit group. Cambodia was chairman of the meeting but it must be CHN that has an influence on Cambodia for perhaps aid given before. This has a detrimental effect on the ASEAN groupping.

    On the world front CHN and RUS vetoed UN sanction on Syria and this has caused the loss of so many more innocent lives. Is this the CHN and it's leadership that you are so proud of?

    It is to be expected for a giant underdeveloped country like CHN starting out to capture the world's attention not unlike JPN when it had to rebuild itself after WWII.

  2. #546
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    Loh, in economics only fools will sell goods and services at a loss. Undervaluing your currencies to export more is a losing business and I would welcome buying such "cheap" goods. Do you know why I love buying such undervalued goods? Yes, it is because I can have enough savings to invest in building up my net worth.
    Loh, I think you should go back to basic home economics first as it is not any different with countries' economies.
    Take for example about the case of Chinese potatoes imported into Singapore. Singapore gleefully accepts such alternative sources of potatoes at a much cheaper price from China, pricing Indonesia out. Now is it undervalued currency again? Of course not.

  3. #547
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Loh, in economics only fools will sell goods and services at a loss. Undervaluing your currencies to export more is a losing business and I would welcome buying such "cheap" goods. Do you know why I love buying such undervalued goods? Yes, it is because I can have enough savings to invest in building up my net worth.
    Loh, I think you should go back to basic home economics first as it is not any different with countries' economies.
    Take for example about the case of Chinese potatoes imported into Singapore. Singapore gleefully accepts such alternative sources of potatoes at a much cheaper price from China, pricing Indonesia out. Now is it undervalued currency again? Of course not.
    Sure the comparative advantage that CHN has is "manipulated" at the top to make price cheaper at the expense of their own workers "cheap labour". The Chinese government makes it much more cheaper by purposely keeping the yuan exchange rate lower to entice the world.

    Sure the world will take advantage of cheap goods and services provided by CHN just like you did and will continue to do so that even developing countries like Indonesia and others poorer were being kept out of the "unfair" competition. That was how CHN got rich so quickly, but the wealth is limited to those connected with the party and government in the main while the majority of its people are still suffering in poverty. Corruption, nepotism, etc, have not been eradicted although the party tried superficially with a few scapegoats to show they are "serious".

    Now that the change in party leadership is around the corner, a false picture of calm and stability is maintained to ensure the continuation of the status quo and power weilding - and thereafter the circus will repeat itself. So inequality will persist much to the delight of the superior genes and IQs of the Chinese party leadership.
    Last edited by Loh; 07-22-2012 at 11:49 PM.

  4. #548
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    ...
    It is to be expected for a giant underdeveloped country like CHN starting out to capture the world's attention not unlike JPN when it had to rebuild itself after WWII.
    JPN (for the first several yrs) as well as several European countries (through the Marshall plan) had helped (through subsidies) from the U.S. (and a few other countries, mainly Britain) after WWII. Even then, JPN (and emperor Hirohito) had to be willing to change their system..

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8134711AA8qlRR
    http://factsanddetails.com/japan.php...6&subcatid=110
    Last edited by ctjcad; 07-23-2012 at 02:26 AM.

  5. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    Sure the comparative advantage that CHN has is "manipulated" at the top to make price cheaper at the expense of their own workers "cheap labour". The Chinese government makes it much more cheaper by purposely keeping the yuan exchange rate lower to entice the world.

    Sure the world will take advantage of cheap goods and services provided by CHN just like you did and will continue to do so that even developing countries like Indonesia and others poorer were being kept out of the "unfair" competition. That was how CHN got rich so quickly, but the wealth is limited to those connected with the party and government in the main while the majority of its people are still suffering in poverty. Corruption, nepotism, etc, have not been eradicted although the party tried superficially with a few scapegoats to show they are "serious".

    Now that the change in party leadership is around the corner, a false picture of calm and stability is maintained to ensure the continuation of the status quo and power weilding - and thereafter the circus will repeat itself. So inequality will persist much to the delight of the superior genes and IQs of the Chinese party leadership.
    Loh, actually there were some US congressmen and women who at one time welcomed China's so called cheap goods from so called currency manipulations as good for America. Have you noticed that the US Federal Reserve chairman have repeatedly defended China's "cheap" goods as good for the US. Alan Greenspan never wavered in praising China's contribution to raising the living standard of Americans, even when blasted left and right bu lawmakers.
    Loh, are you "influenced" by the US congress?
    Let me explain a little bit about economics and international trade. Countries like China imports raw materials to make goods to sell in the domestic market and also export them. Therefore countries that export raw materials, like Australia, ASEAN barring Singapore, Africa, Brazil, ME do have a trade surplus with China. Such imports are paid by China, yes you guess it right in US dollars. If the imported raw materials cost say US$95, the added value of local processing in China say is US$5, it then sells it at US$105, making a profit of a mere US$5. Now if China were to be as stupid as you suggest and manipulate its currency, pray how do they juggle with their real US dollar raw material cost of US$95? How is it possible for CHina to sell it "manipulated" level of say US$90?
    Loh, sometimes, we have to have to be able to think critically instead of being thoroughly soaked by what we read in the media. As you may know all media is a weapon to be used or abused.
    Let us now take another unlikely case of say China exporting goods that have no element of any imported raw materials. A good case here is badminton shuttlecocks. Now, Loh, please tell me are you complaining about the low (or is it high now) prices of say Aeroplane or other Chinese shuttlecocks?
    If you truly believe that Chinese shuttlecocks are priced too low through currency manipulation, then how about paying the difference between the price you paid and "your own true price" to BC fund for needy badminton players.
    We are now in a time of great change with China the catalyst. Those who do not adapt will be left behind and they will continue to bitch and curse. This is human nature and perhaps my own experience can be of some help.
    I have been in HK for 35 years and have seen Shenzhen from a small fishing village to a huge metropolis that is now bigger than HK. At that time HK people looked down on mainland Chinese as no better than scum and laughed at them for casting envious "red-eyes" at HK people. For those uninitiated people, red-eyes means intense jealousy. Now the tables are turned with HK people having huge "red-eyes" towards mainlanders. The same thing is beginning to happen in Taiwan, which now is in a sorry state with so many stores/shops shuttered now due to the previous president's disastrous "independence at all cost" campaign.
    If I may add, this red-eyes disease is also beginning to spread to Singapore. HK and Singapore are getting old with no comparable replacements in the foreseeable future, except for immigrations from China. Singapore may not say it publicly, it depends on both Chinese immigrants from both Malaysia and China. The same applies to HK. But here is one huge difference.
    Malaysians and Chinese will always have two roots, not one, in Singapore. This is human nature, with more options always the winner. The government may put the screws on to force such immigrants to become citizens but this will be counterproductive in the long term.
    HK is different as it is one country with China. The one country two systems is only a temporary bridge. It is now 15 years since the handover and in 35 years' time it will be one country with HK a city in China. %0 years is time enough. In syn with this period of 50 years HK is allowed to bring in poor young mainlanders with children at the rate of about 55,000 people each year. In the past 15 years this young and poor immigrants from China make up more than 11% or more than 800,000 to date. This of course creates a cultural and social divide but longer term it is the immigrants' off springs that will replace the aging population. In addition there are many rich mainlanders who are HK permanent residents or citizens. However, like in Singapore they don't live here and instead use HK as a base for their global businesses.

    On another note, the divide between the rich and the poor in China is actually about the same as Singapore, although the press seems to be selective in reporting this.
    According to the world bank Singapore's latest Gini Coefficient od 0.48 is higher than China's 0.47.
    Now if you were to take away Singapore's sovereign fund share the Gini Coefficient for Singapore might even be closer to 0.60, perhaps a world record.

  6. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    JPN (for the first several yrs) as well as several European countries (through the Marshall plan) had helped (through subsidies) from the U.S. (and a few other countries, mainly Britain) after WWII. Even then, JPN (and emperor Hirohito) had to be willing to change their system..

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8134711AA8qlRR
    http://factsanddetails.com/japan.php...6&subcatid=110
    In contrasting treatment the US imposed a Nato/Japan trade embargo against China in 1950s, called the COCOM Embargo. In 1952, the US imposed even stricter embargo against China, this time blatantly calling it China Embargo. The US government publicly announced that the embargoes were intended to bring down China and to break it up and to isolate it diplomatically.
    Now, how many of you know about this? However, the US underestimated China's capability and it then realized in 1972 that China was no pushover and had to be reckoned with. Even then the US imposed import duties that are 5 to 10 times higher than more friendly countries were subject.
    Note the two very different treatments of China and Japan by the US. Japan, with the help of the US is a shrinking shadow of what it could have been because of its reliance on the US (hooked on GI opium). In contrast, China, a country put to the sword by the US for so many years, is poised to overtake the US.
    This is a good lesson for countries who want to be respected. Be a man, not a mouse asking for crumbs.

  7. #551
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    We have for the past 4 years been subjected to bad news about the global economy, the US financial scandal, and now the EU fiasco. Let me remind everyone here that there is another serious problem on the horizon, which has been played down by countries that will otherwise lose their credibility
    Why are the US and NATO withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan so soon when it will require at least more than 50 years to stabilize these two countries. 50 years is a generation or two gap and you need that to change a country's dna.
    I can tell you what will happen to Iraq and Afghanistan after the US/NATO withdrawal. Eventually, the Taliban will retake Afghanistan and Iraq will form an axis with Iran due to a common Muslim religion sect.
    The US-controlled S Arabia and Gulf states will be more marginalized and Turkey will lose its clout in the Muslim world. There are 3 contending Muslim sectors in the ME, the Otterman Turks, the Sunnis, and the Iraq/Syria/Iran Shias. The US and the west wants to prevent a Shia empire, hence its deep involvement in wanting to weaken Syria and Iran and at the same time support the Sunnis. This is ironic, as the Sunnis are more radical with zero tolerance for other religions whereas the Shias are more tolerant towards other religions.

  8. #552
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    People who are wise to the ways of the world know that East Asians, namely the Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans, Hong Kong people, Japanese and all overseas Chinese and other East Asians have superior IQ. This is seen in everyday life in countries where you can find these people. However, people don't talk about it, because it will cause social problems and racial riots.
    Just to remind Loh, no less than Singapore's very own Lee Kwan Yew said the following:

    "The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85% on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites on average score 100. Asians score more. The Bell curve authors said it is at least 10 points higher. These are realities that if you do not accept, will lead to frustrations because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow."

    The Chinese leadership were chosen from the best brains from the top universities. Their level can be gauged from how Lee Kwan Yew compared himself with the Chinese leaders sometime back. LKY said he would not even qualify and at best might be good enough for a minor provincial mayor.

  9. #553
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Chinese leaders are picked from the top universities? Please update on everyone of them.
    Top universities from where? China itself?

    So you believe what LKY said?

  10. #554
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    degrees from top universities are not that important.

    it is decades of ruthless politics that truly define them.

  11. Likes Loh liked this post
  12. #555
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    In contrasting treatment the US imposed a Nato/Japan trade embargo against China in 1950s, called the COCOM Embargo. In 1952, the US imposed even stricter embargo against China, this time blatantly calling it China Embargo.
    ...
    ..according to history, at the height after WWII, the world powers were pretty much divided into 2 systems (communism & capitalism). Soviet took China along and the U.S. took the rest of the world not associated with communism.
    In 1971, the relationship between Soviet and China "cooled" off & that's when U.S. swooped in and started the so-called Sino-American relationship (eventhough even prior to WWII, U.S. had already sent aids to CHN during the Sino-Japanese war)...Nothing really much to do with the U.S. underestimating CHN etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    ...
    Why are the US and NATO withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan so soon when it will require at least more than 50 years to stabilize these two countries. 50 years is a generation or two gap and you need that to change a country's dna.
    ...
    One word for ya : ISRAEL
    Last edited by ctjcad; 07-23-2012 at 09:54 AM.

  13. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..according to history, at the height after WWII, the world powers were pretty much divided into 2 systems (communism & capitalism). Soviet took China along and the U.S. took the rest of the world not associated with communism.
    In 1971, the relationship between Soviet and China "cooled" off & that's when U.S. swooped in and started the so-called Sino-American relationship (eventhough even prior to WWII, U.S. had already sent aids to CHN during the Sino-Japanese war)...Nothing really much to do with the U.S. underestimating CHN etc.

    One word for ya : ISRAEL
    America's assistance to China during WWII was insignificant. The so called Flying Tigers were run by a private contractor with 20 planes and it saw operation for less than 7 months. Some Americans regarded them as mercenaries. It was in China after it was driven out of Burma by the Japanese and it helped only General Chiang Kai Shek, not the Peoples Republic of China.
    In reality America was hostile to China from the 1950s to 1972 when Kessinger and Nixon (the only Americans with real geopolitical expertise) repaired the damage somewhat with Mao.
    Many of you may be shocked about the dirty secrets of the Dalai Lama and the CIA, which are being buried under the carpet by western media. It is this dirty secret that shapes the present impasse between the PRC and the Dalai Lama/West. How can there be any meaningful agreement between the PRC and the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans in India when there can be no trust. With the Dalai Lama's role in this dirty secret war in Tibet, how can one expect the PRC to trust him?
    A little background on the CIA and Dalai Lama and his brothers dirty secret war in Tibet will provide some reasons on why there can be no agreements with the Dalai Lama and Tibetans in India. The only effective way is between the Tibetans in Tibet and the PRC.

    1. www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=6402.
    2. www.atimes.com/atimes/china/JC26Ad02.html.

    There is a lesson to be learned here. Nations have no permanent friends or enemies, only what is good for their national interest. Nixon/Kessinger and Mao are torch bearers for thsi golden rule.
    As a result of this new national interest between the US and the PRC in 1972, the US pulled the rug from the feet of the Dalai Lama. Now, he is on life support with token drips until he goes away. This same scenario is also playing out in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, even Israel. A recent "national interest" "dear" friend was Egypt's Mubarrack.

  14. #557
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    ..
    In reality America was hostile to China from the 1950s to 1972 when Kessinger and Nixon (the only Americans with real geopolitical expertise) repaired the damage somewhat with Mao.
    ..U.S. were "hostile" because CHN and Russia were hand-in-hand together as communist partners during that timeframe..In 1971 things changed when Russia had a rift with CHN, as i already mentioned above..

  15. #558
    Regular Member Loh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    People who are wise to the ways of the world know that East Asians, namely the Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans, Hong Kong people, Japanese and all overseas Chinese and other East Asians have superior IQ. This is seen in everyday life in countries where you can find these people. However, people don't talk about it, because it will cause social problems and racial riots.
    Just to remind Loh, no less than Singapore's very own Lee Kwan Yew said the following:

    "The Bell curve is a fact of life. The blacks on average score 85% on IQ and it is accurate, nothing to do with culture. The whites on average score 100. Asians score more. The Bell curve authors said it is at least 10 points higher. These are realities that if you do not accept, will lead to frustrations because you will be spending money on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow."

    The Chinese leadership were chosen from the best brains from the top universities. Their level can be gauged from how Lee Kwan Yew compared himself with the Chinese leaders sometime back. LKY said he would not even qualify and at best might be good enough for a minor provincial mayor.
    To me this is an unfounded "racist" propaganda.

    If indeed the great variety of "coloured" human races that we now have are really descendants from the same roots, there should not be this inequality of genes and IQs that you now readily talked about.

    If indeed the Chinese and other East Asians are so superior, they would have been Nobel prizewinners many times over. Their researches and inventions would have taken the world by storm. Or is it because the Nobel Prize is originated from the West that such high IQ people refuse to participate?

  16. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    To me this is an unfounded "racist" propaganda.

    If indeed the great variety of "coloured" human races that we now have are really descendants from the same roots, there should not be this inequality of genes and IQs that you now readily talked about.

    If indeed the Chinese and other East Asians are so superior, they would have been Nobel prizewinners many times over. Their researches and inventions would have taken the world by storm. Or is it because the Nobel Prize is originated from the West that such high IQ people refuse to participate?
    No, this not true. Nobel prizes a reflection of IQ, are you joking? Of course not.
    Look no farther than your won country Singapore as a typical case study. Singapore is "living" and taking this "comparative advantage" without any sound and fury, otherwise it will stir great resentment. Look around SEA countries and see with your eyes for tell tale indicators, even if you ignore the many constraints placed on such IQ people.
    I am not saying East Asians are superior in an arrogant way. All I am saying is they have higher IQ. Yes, Africans have much lower IQ, offset by greater physical prowess.
    We are all descended from every living organism in the world with common genes to bacteria, monkeys, blacks, whites, and yellows. That doesn't mean we all have similar IQ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loh View Post
    To me this is an unfounded "racist" propaganda.

    If indeed the great variety of "coloured" human races that we now have are really descendants from the same roots, there should not be this inequality of genes and IQs that you now readily talked about.

    If indeed the Chinese and other East Asians are so superior, they would have been Nobel prizewinners many times over. Their researches and inventions would have taken the world by storm. Or is it because the Nobel Prize is originated from the West that such high IQ people refuse to participate?
    No, this not true. Nobel prizes a reflection of IQ, are you joking? Of course not.
    Look no farther than your won country Singapore as a typical case study. Singapore is "living" and taking this "comparative advantage" without any sound and fury, otherwise it will stir great resentment. Look around SEA countries and see with your eyes for tell tale indicators, even if you ignore the many constraints placed on such IQ people.
    I am not saying East Asians are superior in an arrogant way. All I am saying is they have higher IQ. Yes, Africans have much lower IQ, offset by greater physical prowess.
    We are all descended from every living organism in the world with common genes to bacteria, monkeys, blacks, whites, and yellows. That doesn't mean we all have similar IQ.
    It is a change or a deviation that humans get one step ahead. To say that all humans in the world, after so much evolution, have similar IQ is a bit far fetched.

  18. #561
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    We are one world one life, with animals, humans, bacteria, and trees-yes trees) all "related" having sprung from the same tree. In fact our own body is all bacteria. Now, of course there is a huge range of IQ, if there is any among some species, and am I guilty of being racist propagating racist propaganda? Or is saying there are Whites, Africans, and East Asians being "racist".
    Maybe, there is some breakdown in communication here. Or is it between knowledge and merely what one reads and takes what is read as true knowledge?

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