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  1. #120
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow History-vs-Trend

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..btw, it's not only me who's reading this thread..others/new readers might wonder and ask the same thing: what in the world is eaglehelang referring the "trend" to?
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    They already asked me about it long time ago my friend, I already mentioned 'trend' for at least 6 months
    .
    To me, "trend" is how things are expected to turn out like what limsy said about data recorded on a graph. And I can follow what eaglehelang is trying to say.

    About ctjcad's posts, I can also see he is talking more about "history", not "trend".
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 07-02-2010 at 12:42 PM.

  2. #121
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    They already asked me about it long time ago my friend, I already mentioned 'trend' for at least 6 months
    ..who are "they"??..

  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..the only i trend i notice abt LCW is that he always gets a shiver up and down his legs & experiences a stage fright whenever he plays in a big tourney and against LD.
    *Yes, i know everyone realizes that already..
    Did you watch the TC10 match between LCW and LD?
    If you did, you would have realised LD was really nervous at the start of the match. He could not even serve properly.
    The point is both of them would be nervous at the beginning, not just LCW.
    As the match progressed, LD got more confident because he was winning and LCW was losing and crashing because it was getting so bad he became clueless.That's what happens when match preparations are not comprehensive.

    However, if as the match progressed, LCW was winning and LD losing, then LCW would grow more confident and play better and LD would be the one crashing and clueless. This happened in their match in TC08.

    What I'm trying to say is this behaviour outcome comes about depending on how a match progresses. It is not the exclusive property of either LCW or LD. It has happened to both and also to other top players like PG and TH as well.

  4. #123
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    Did you watch the TC10 match between LCW and LD?
    If you did, you would have realised LD was really nervous at the start of the match. He could not even serve properly.
    The point is both of them would be nervous at the beginning, not just LCW.
    As the match progressed, LD got more confident because he was winning and LCW was losing and crashing because it was getting so bad he became clueless.That's what happens when match preparations are not comprehensive.

    However, if as the match progressed, LCW was winning and LD losing, then LCW would grow more confident and play better and LD would be the one crashing and clueless. This happened in their match in TC08.

    What I'm trying to say is this behaviour outcome comes about depending on how a match progresses. It is not the exclusive property of either LCW or LD. It has happened to both and also to other top players like PG and TH as well.
    well said, like a car once understeer/oversteer you can't control it you are in trouble

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    To me, "trend" is how things are expected to turn out like what limsy said about data recorded on a graph. And I can follow what eaglehelang is trying to say.

    About ctjcad's posts, I can also see he is talking more about "history", not "trend".
    Ah ha, it needs a fellow Msian to understand another, thank you.


    Ctjcad, they were Jasonmarc, Limsy, recently Lcleing. I think our undeadshot also, but seems he could understand the predictions I posted, so he didnt need to ask me. 98% of the other members wouldnt bother one lah
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 07-03-2010 at 01:03 AM.

  6. #125
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    Did you watch the TC10 match between LCW and LD?
    If you did, you would have realised LD was really nervous at the start of the match. He could not even serve properly.
    The point is both of them would be nervous at the beginning, not just LCW.
    As the match progressed, LD got more confident because he was winning and LCW was losing and crashing because it was getting so bad he became clueless.That's what happens when match preparations are not comprehensive.

    However, if as the match progressed, LCW was winning and LD losing, then LCW would grow more confident and play better and LD would be the one crashing and clueless. This happened in their match in TC08.

    What I'm trying to say is this behaviour outcome comes about depending on how a match progresses. It is not the exclusive property of either LCW or LD. It has happened to both and also to other top players like PG and TH as well.
    ..i did not sit and watch the entire match completely (because i was outside, milling around and waiting for a friend). However, i did follow the match, on and off, through a live CCTV broadcast on a tv screen. As well as follow the livescore on one of the monitors.

    No question match preparedness plays a factor, no brainer there. And of course, if one player is winning, the confidence would grow more and that player will play better, another no brainer. But one has to consider the mental aspect of both players as well, whenever both of them met. One then gotta ask, does LCW never have a comprehensive match preparation every time he plays & loses against LD?..If he did prepare well, which i'm sure he had, then why the more than usual losses vs. LD?..is it more mental or something else?..

    The way i see it, as i and others mentioned before, LCW will usually buckle and give in to that "mental block" when he played vs. LD in a major or important event. That's what we're after. TC2008 is one rare good moment for LCW, but how often is that situation. Another good example is the 2008 OG; if that doesn't get any bigger, then i don't know what is.

    We don't have to compare their head to head record (as most of know already how it looks like). Let's compare both players' results/record when they've actually played in the same tourneys; not necessarily have to play against each other. I wonder who has a better record..??..

    Given quite a few are suggesting LD will probably not be ready/prepared because of his CBSL schedule, let us wait & see if LCW can take advantage & break his "mental block" this yr in the WC, should he meet LD once again.
    Last edited by ctjcad; 07-03-2010 at 03:45 AM.

  7. #126
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Smile ctjcad keeps referring to history

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    Ah ha, it needs a fellow Msian to understand another, thank you.


    Ctjcad, they were Jasonmarc, Limsy, recently Lcleing. I think our undeadshot also, but seems he could understand the predictions I posted, so he didnt need to ask me. 98% of the other members wouldnt bother one lah
    .
    It's just that ctjcad keeps referring to "history", instead of "trend".

    Now we can see ctjcad keeps referring to "history" again, when discussing with pjswift the "mental" aspects of LCW.
    .

  8. #127
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    ..i see it as both history and trend..the history & trend that LCW will usually struggle if not lose to LD whenever they meet, esp. in a major tourney..or, LCW would lose in a major tourney to other players until this yr's AE..but let's see if LCW will go back to the same trend or will he capture another major tourney this yr?..

  9. #128
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    It's just that ctjcad keeps referring to "history", instead of "trend".

    Now we can see ctjcad keeps referring to "history" again, when discussing with pjswift the "mental" aspects of LCW.
    .
    ...lol......this 'train' must be hard to follow..

    as what pjswift said earlier he was rather observant

    and understood the game they played

    and that was a brainer i must say.

    also how he put it was easy for readers to read

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    ...lol......this 'train' must be hard to follow..

    as what pjswift said earlier he was rather observant

    and understood the game they played

    and that was a brainer i must say.

    also how he put it was easy for readers to read
    pBm, pjswift is a she...not he....hehehe

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglehelang View Post
    If you dont like the the 'trend.....' phrases, I'll try use another, it's just me & Jasonmarc like that phrase.

    It means I think LCW has 65% chance of winning the WC this year, 2010. I think his opponent in the finals will not be LD.
    I was trying not to say directly in order not to get LD fans all worked up & start you know what.
    Yes, to me...'trend' is fine.


    To me, its all depends on how LD treat this coming WC......if he wants to be more prepare and more focus for Asian Games, like he did in last AE as he was concentrating for TC.....He would just take it easy this time, then LCW have better chance.

  12. #131
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonmarc View Post
    pBm, pjswift is a she...not he....hehehe
    really a she?

    the way she writes she must be as pretty as her post

    ahem

  13. #132
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    Default It's amazing LCW has beaten LD more than 3x

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..i did not sit and watch the entire match completely (because i was outside, milling around and waiting for a friend). However, i did follow the match, on and off, through a live CCTV broadcast on a tv screen. As well as follow the livescore on one of the monitors.

    No question match preparedness plays a factor, no brainer there. And of course, if one player is winning, the confidence would grow more and that player will play better, another no brainer. But one has to consider the mental aspect of both players as well, whenever both of them met. One then gotta ask, does LCW never have a comprehensive match preparation every time he plays & loses against LD?..If he did prepare well, which i'm sure he had, then why the more than usual losses vs. LD?..is it more mental or something else?..

    The way i see it, as i and others mentioned before, LCW will usually buckle and give in to that "mental block" when he played vs. LD in a major or important event. That's what we're after. TC2008 is one rare good moment for LCW, but how often is that situation. Another good example is the 2008 OG; if that doesn't get any bigger, then i don't know what is.

    We don't have to compare their head to head record (as most of know already how it looks like). Let's compare both players' results/record when they've actually played in the same tourneys; not necessarily have to play against each other. I wonder who has a better record..??..

    Given quite a few are suggesting LD will probably not be ready/prepared because of his CBSL schedule, let us wait & see if LCW can take advantage & break his "mental block" this yr in the WC, should he meet LD once again.
    I don't think you appreciate how great LCW is. LCW is the reason LD has to get a special coach all to himself and to continue to slog.
    The way I look at it is this: No champion ever wins on his own. The coach and more importantly, the comprehensive support he gets in terms of match preparations is a huge factor. Misbun definitely cannot be compared to Tang. But one aspect which is well used by CHN is the video analysis. MAS also tapes just about every match but when I asked their video officer how often those videos were used by coaches and players alike,the answer was not often. MAS videos for formality; CHN videos matches for intensive analysis to make a difference in helping their players compete better.
    My belief is CHN coaches do intensive work to help their players prepare comprehensively whereas MAS coaches are incapable of supporting in such a comprehensive manner. Video analysis is a lot of work. Not only can it be tedious and time-consuming, you gotta know what you are looking for and how to apply the knowledge. For example, if you watch CHN players, there are certain 'patterns' shown in the course of a match. If these patterns are disrupted, they are likely to lose.
    The way CHN coaches support their players is similar to the way Singapore students are helped by their teachers to ace their exams. Singapore teachers do all the research and comprehensive notes for their students; all the students have to do is swot until the input is permanently captured for release at the right time.
    What I am saying is LD has many advantages over LCW in terms of support. So much that I would not even expect LCW to even defeat LD even thrice. The fact that LCW has and is always a threat to LD indicates that LCW is superior to LD in some ways. In that sense, LCW is greater than LD.
    In spite of what you often claim about LCW's mental frailty, that's often being mistaken. LCW has consistently shown he's able to bounce back from utter defeat. He can lose early in one tournament and bounce back a week later to win a title. Plenty of examples. For example, he struggled in SO10 and won the IO10, defeating, as one reporter cleverly put it, 'INA 's past, present and future MS' plus GER and JPN's No 1 MS in one week. That's no small feat, playing five consecutive matches, at the high level, over five days.

  14. #133
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    The way I look at it is this: No champion ever wins on his own. The coach and more importantly, the comprehensive support he gets in terms of match preparations is a huge factor. Misbun definitely cannot be compared to Tang.
    thats true no champion will ever wins on his or her own. he or she needs the support from coaches and i say coaches, not one coach along, trainers, team mates and a hell lot more through out the whole career. but the most important thing is he, himself or she, herself.

    looking at lin dan and lee chong wei do we see any difference? yes especially lin dan. in the whole of china until today we or even china ba can't find one just about like him.

    and here we have one lcw who is the only player who can take him down. thanks to misbun and all those coaches, trainers, team mates, well wishers, parents...... involved.

    to compare misbun and tang we can't say one is better than the other. both are one of the best in the world though tang maybe older he may have more experience, experience with age.

    what matters most between a player and a coach is the relationship. it cannot be formed in a matter of weeks. it takes commitments from both side and a hell long journey through bad and good times to win each other's heart. thats how lcw comes up today. he had the determination to withstand pain and hard work and misbun can give up almost everything to make it happen and i said he is one of a kind. he is not selfish and ever willing to learn and he has given everything to lcw. when he can't, he'll look for some ways or some other professionals until he has a good night sleep. he stayed away from politics and he doesn't treat himself as a datuk in badminton.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjswift View Post
    But one aspect which is well used by CHN is the video analysis. MAS also tapes just about every match but when I asked their video officer how often those videos were used by coaches and players alike,the answer was not often. MAS videos for formality; CHN videos matches for intensive analysis to make a difference in helping their players compete better.
    My belief is CHN coaches do intensive work to help their players prepare comprehensively whereas MAS coaches are incapable of supporting in such a comprehensive manner. Video analysis is a lot of work. Not only can it be tedious and time-consuming, you gotta know what you are looking for and how to apply the knowledge. For example, if you watch CHN players, there are certain 'patterns' shown in the course of a match. If these patterns are disrupted, they are likely to lose.
    on the video analysis, yes malaysia team do have an engineer in fact and does all the programming, recording on mas team.

    maybe they are not using them as often as they should. in my opinion if any player(s) who are that serious or committed, can't ask for a copy? but i am sure lcw has all copies of his own matches in his private homes. as i said he is very committed and if he doesn't know whats happening to himself in that game or how his opponent plays i don't think anybody can help him. even you did figure out something!

  15. #134
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up The way she writes she must be as pretty as her posts

    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    really a she?

    the way she writes she must be as pretty as her post

    ahem
    .
    Can't blame you, pBmMalaysia. You are only 6 months-old at BC.
    .

  16. #135
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    Can't blame you, pBmMalaysia. You are only 6 months-old at BC.
    .
    ya, i am not even one year old..

    thats the problem everybody wears a mask here

    can't even tell them boy or girl, married or not

  17. #136
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    Wow, a really good input by pjswift here. I agree with her thoughts and analysis, but I think it is not surprising the LCW beat LD more than thrice. That's like Rober Soderling managed to get the better of Federer in the French Open after losing like 10 or so times to the same opponent. Of course, LCW has a better head-to-head than that but its almost the same, if you meet each other many times, you are bound to at least win once, if skills are almost on par.

    I don't know much about tennis so please tell me if I am wrong with my example

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