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  1. #52
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    But the so-called Taiwanese language is just Fujian Dialect.

    Originally posted by LazyBuddy
    I've heard this before. Some friends from TW told me that their grand parents only can speak taiwanese and Japanese.

    To me, it's not irritating or embarassing... It's just part of history.

  2. #53
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    Originally posted by Phil
    Haha, I also hold my pencils wrong as well. Maybe why my writing is messy....

    Well, I live in a town of about 50,000 that is probably 97% Caucasian, and the remaining 3% are the rest of us, asians, blacks, italians, etc. Safe to say Chinese has little use here. If I lived in Toronto, then I could say yes, I would still have my Cantonese knowledge, along with perhaps some Mandarin.

    As for the Mah-Jong, it is the, um, uh, I didn't know there was a different version. The one I play is you get 13 tiles at the start. Three blocks of 4 and 1 extra. So this is Taiwanese?

    Phil
    HAHA... i supposively have the best form for gripping pencils and chopsticks... but hell... my words are lik... not words! ^^"

    I guess u hav ur point on the language tho. However, if you were to live in Richmond here, it'd be a different story

    As for Mah-Jong, the one you play is cantonese(hong kong) version Taiwanese version consists of 16 tiles and the rules are different. "How would I kno?" No questions plz haha

  3. #54
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    Originally posted by Pete LSD
    But the so-called Taiwanese language is just Fujian Dialect.
    Actually, that's only partially right, there's been many adaptions from the Japanese language for instance... lik motorcyle "O-DOU-BAI" for those of you who know it ^^ it's the same as Japanese

  4. #55
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    Can't see how one can blame Chinese in US and Canada

    for losing their original identity.

    They left Asia years ago from Vietnam etc. to a place that openly

    welcomed them and provided them a safe haven.

    We from Nanyang, we kive in what LKY described as a sea of Malays,

    and must always seek solodarity in numbers in a hostile environment.

  5. #56
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    Originally posted by TOmike

    here is my Critera
    Can at least speak it/understand (at least you can translate for your white friends)
    Can use chopsticks
    Know the Capital of China
    Watches chinese movies from time to time
    Know who is best out of Jet Li, Bruce Lee, and Jackie Chan
    Knows their home town
    Knows how to write their name
    Can still PROUDLY scream "TEAM CHINA FOREVER" after the last World Cup.

    (
    Can't write my name.. ohwell 7 out of 7 aint bad!

    Same here TOmike... i'm a chinese reborn too

  6. #57
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    Originally posted by Bbn
    I'd like to clarify that Chinese from Msians are very Chinese indeed.

    Since the last 20 years some 90 % of children attend at least 6 years of Chinese

    education and are schooled in the classics like 'Romance of 3 kingdoms" etc.

    Dunno about that. I've studied French at school for over 10 years, Cantonese for 3 years, and Mandarin for 2 years as well. I don't consider myself more French than Chinese, that's for sure!

    I'm think being Chinese in the traditional sense means being both ethnically chinese and culturally chinese.

    If you have at least 50% chinese blood and act like a FOB, you are definetly Chinese on my books!

  7. #58
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    True, but there is STILL no need for them to behave as though they were superior to Chinese who haven't lost their "original identity" or to try so hard to ingratitate themselves with some other race.

    Besides, I know of many Thai, Vietnamese and Korean Americans - all of whom can speak their mother tongue and know more or less of their own cultures. So what is it about these other races that enable them to retain at least some of their roots despite being 2nd or 3rd generations in a foreign country? They are not subject to any persecution in N. America either.

    On the other hand, there are some Chinese who apparently never leave Chinatown. Friend of mine was saying that some guy in Chinatown NY cldn't tell her how to get to Soho, which was like juz opp the road or abt that proximity (ppl in NY: feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) because he has never left Chinatown. Also heard of someone's aunt who immigrated to Chicago from HK abt 1o-20 years ago but has still not learnt how to speak or write a word of English. Relied on her husband all her life and when he died, she cldn't even make out a cheque on her own.

    So that's really extreme and of course, I don't advocate doing sth like that. When you go to a foreign country, it's always beneficial to immerse urself in some of tt culture. Of course, there's a difference bwt going there to study (like me) or escaping to some place in the hope of a better life. For the so-called escapees, I wld find it more understandable if they continued to stay within their own "safety zone".

    What I find quite sad - and you are free or not to agree with me - is that some Chinese parents don't even speak to their kids in Chinese or teach them anything about their own heritage. I believe that whether or not to continue your traditions is simply a matter of choice. Fine, so North America doesn't give public hols on Chinese NY or Winter Solstice but I do have friends whose parents insist on having reunion dinner or eating tang1 yuan2. Conversely, you could also choose to conform and celebrate Thanksgiving or Christmas with turkey (which btw is one of the vilest tasting things on earth apart from durian), like the Americans traditionally do.

    Being in a hostile envt, SEA Chinese band together and keep some of our traditions alive. But being in a safe haven doesn't necessarily mean that you throw away everything that you used to care for simply becoz there isn't racial politics to worry abt.

    To end off, let's just say that I used to think ABCs looked down on us FOBs coz they thought they were superior. Now I think it goes both ways: some of them despise our, but some of us despise them too for being rootless and culture-less.


    Originally posted by Bbn
    Can't see how one can blame Chinese in US and Canada

    for losing their original identity.

    They left Asia years ago from Vietnam etc. to a place that openly

    welcomed them and provided them a safe haven.

    We from Nanyang, we kive in what LKY described as a sea of Malays,

    and must always seek solodarity in numbers in a hostile environment.

  8. #59
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    Question ...

    Hi,

    I was resisting from posting in this thread because I wanted to see what interesting reponses were made. I too have a very strong opinion about what makes a Chinese.

    First I want to comment on the number of xBCs on this board! I think I wouldn't exagerate but saying that a majority seem to be of *asian* origin (to avoid confusion, non-caucasion or white). The point in question would be why so many asians like badminton so much? Is it because it is a sport that we can actually stand a chance against (when playing people of other races), but this is a topic for a different discussion.

    I am a 1st generation BBC (British, England). My parents are both from Hong Kong. My mother tongue is Hakka which is the 3rd most popular dialect of chinese language after mandarin and cantonese. I went to Chinese school (set up by overseas chinese community), once a week for 2 hours, for about 5 years. I speak fluent cantonese and can read and write to some degree. Am I chinese? This is a very subjective question and depends on who is or who you are asking.

    After many years pondering..I would say NO I was not chinese. I am BBC whatever that may translate to or mean for you. I can speak for a large number of other BBCs and say that yes, we DO DESPISE FOBS, but it's more to do with the things they do rather than the person/people itself. Primarily it is attitude. Whilst we can accept that these attitudes were developed because of different education and environments, what makes them think that they can stamp their attitudes and beliefs all over ours?? Just because we don't celebrate or conform to your beliefs is it necessary to go on a cursing rampage? Most of the FOBs I have come into contact with are overseas students. Because they have relative wealth in China, they command respect in CHINA. They have FACE. But overseas is NOT china. Be it England, America, Canada or anywhere else. They act as if they have priority and importance.

    They look down on you because you are not well versed in Mandarin (Chinese) or the entire chinese history. You don't share their beliefs or understand their jokes. You don't wear the same old fashioned "western clothing" worn by common elite Chinese that was out since the 70s. Put simply they lack ability to put aside preconceptions and use a little understanding. To the Joe Public in China, we are not Chinese. We are the banana people ( a common analogy, looking yellowy outside but on the inside it is white). This is why a lot of BBCs have given up on their "culture" if we can call it our culture and simply adopted a western culture instead. It is much less troublesome and more hassle free.

    Having lived (and born) here for about 20 years, I do consider this so called foreign place my home. To older generations, they can never feel comfortable but that is part due to their stubborness and reluctance to learn and part due to limited communication, and therefore the ability to socialise and mingle in. It is true that there are immigrants who after 20 or 30 years of settling, struggle to make a sentence in English. So, we grow up with English people, we go to school with English people, we work with English people and we have relationships with English people but are we English?? (Or American or wherever you are). No. Whilst they can accept you as a school mate, as a friend, as a work mate, you cannot be of superioty status. Even tho attitudes have been changing, and "equal opportunities" is *meant* to be in full force, have you ever seen any Chinese as a top executive in a foreign company? Why do so many BBCs go back into the catering (restaurant/take-away) business even after graduating from University? Is it because they prefer woks to pens? or the fact that being your own employer in your little shop is going to be better than working as somebody's employee for the rest of your life even when you have better qualifications and experience? We lack the look, history and the prestige to be a Brit. All we can claim is to be of British nationality.

    For me and maybe Cheung? We are not English or Chinese so there is no point in trying to fit in. There is a class in between and that is where I fit in. Mixing the best of both worlds and traditions. We have our own BBC history and culture. It's not English culture and it's not Chinese culture. We have our own existence and same to other xBCs, we do not have to hide behind another culture or religion just so that we get heard.

    In Chinese, we could be classed as some "wa kiu"(canton) or of some Chinese descent.

    I too cringe when people treat Chinese, Koreans, Japanese (oriental asians) as all the same. If I tell you it's different, you should at least just accept it and simply not to respond, "you'll all the same anyway!". Referring to Kwun's example of an African guy. If I was interested about him I'll ask him some more questions, If I wasn't that's that. I wouldn't think, just another black guy.

    In some situations is is easier sitting on the fence just to avoid confusion and embarassment. Generally if an English persons asks, I'm Chinese! until they ask some more that is.

    Some people reading this post will get offended. Be offended and then move on! Do not get me wrong, I have FOB friends, but they are the exceptions rather than rule. I make friends not based on culture and history. Why should I celebrate the moon festival?? why should I eat moon cakes? why should I eat mandarin in new year? why should I burn paper to dead people? to be honest, not many people give a sh*t nowadays and I'm not just talking about BBCs. FYI I do participate, but only as a sign of respect. Do I believe in it? no. But that's no invitation for anyone to judge me or to impose their beliefs onto me.

    Even Hong Kong people, do not classify themselves as Chinese, deriving from China. They are simply Hong Kong people. Though technically they are Chinese.

    What do you all think?? I do not feel Chinese yet I am not English. How many others feel the same?

    Adel, why are you so angry??? speaking as a FOB, what is your side of the story?

  9. #60
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    b4 this turns into a rotal rumble,in my opinion , the english word "chinese" is causing
    some mix up here.
    HongKies ARE chinese.
    If u argue not,then y the heck do they celebrate CNY and practice a lot of the traditions?
    The english word "chinese" actually doesn't specify clearly.but thats not y i posted this reply in the first place.........

    Main reason is because WizBit,i CAN'T believe u actually twisted the reason y we all play badminton??!!
    Just bcos we stand a chance against the "gui lao"??This is ABSURD!!!
    u know, this is actually wat Adel meant when he said "looking down on ones own roots n race".
    AND if u really think this way,i think u might as well stop playing badminton,if u ever did.
    shocked.........totally shocked!!!

  10. #61
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    Originally posted by Yap
    b4 this turns into a rotal rumble,in my opinion , the english word "chinese" is causing
    some mix up here.
    HongKies ARE chinese.
    If u argue not,then y the heck do they celebrate CNY and practice a lot of the traditions?
    The english word "chinese" actually doesn't specify clearly.but thats not y i posted this reply in the first place.........

    Main reason is because WizBit,i CAN'T believe u actually twisted the reason y we all play badminton??!!
    Just bcos we stand a chance against the "gui lao"??This is ABSURD!!!
    u know, this is actually wat Adel meant when he said "looking down on ones own roots n race".
    AND if u really think this way,i think u might as well stop playing badminton,if u ever did.
    shocked.........totally shocked!!!
    Whoa, Yap, real mad here. Didn't expect you to be THAT mad. Yeah, Wiz bit, you shouldn't change the reason we play badminton you know! I play it for fun, not to beat others! Expecially others I think are better than me in something else!

  11. #62
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    wow wiz, you must have an English Major.
    Though i can't agree with everything you've said, you have proven your point very well. Actually, ATI (graphics card company based 15 mins from my house) is run by a Taiwanese, but thats because he started it

  12. #63
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    TOmike:

    Not sure what you mean about majoring in English, but am glad that you take my point.

    Adel:

    Main reason is because WizBit,i CAN'T believe u actually twisted the reason y we all play badminton??!!
    That is untrue to an extent. Ask any true competitor and they will tell you it is not about the taking part. I have seen far too many people take badminton too seriously (refer to other post; things I hate...). FYI, I didn't twist the reason why we play badminton at all. We all play for a number of different reasons, whether it be just socially, for exercise or competitiely.

    My original point was one of observation. I have observed that 9/10 sports, you will not see a Chinese person playing or representing them (at professional level at least). In UK, the main sports that interest the public are: (in no order apart from football as no. 1)

    *1. Football (Soccer)
    2. Rugby
    3. Cricket
    4. Tennis
    5. Snooker
    6. Darts
    7. Athletics
    8. Curling
    9. Hockey
    10. Basketball
    11. Golf
    12. Badminton

    Apart from sports like badminton and ping pong there are hardly any others where Chinese do participate in, or to be precise, EXCEL in or stand a chance of being WORLD CLASS. There have been exceptions such as Tennis, Michael Chang who reached no.2 in the world. Marco Fu, Hong Kong #1 snooker player is in top 50 in the world (I think) and a handful of others.

    I am not looking down on my roots, to do so would be looking down on myself! No I am not 6.0 ft tall or anything, I am just an average size for a person of Chinese descent. FYI Chinese is spelt with a capital C, as should others from other countries, such as English and French. The fact is we as a whole do not physically compare to people of Western origin. They are usually taller and bigger, which is why we have the advantage in speed. That seems to be the general consensus. You can defend Chinese people all you like from your cosy home in Malaysia. Do not forget, Malaysia is inhabited by a lot of Chinese people. More percentage than *foreign countries, so you are looking through a smaller lens, when you should be looking at the wider picture. I do not know the percentage of Chinese that inhabit Malaysia but say 50% of overall population is so. In UK, you could be representing 1% of your town's population. Were you born in such and raised in such an environment?

    When talking about Chinese it is best to be a bit more specific, i.e. Malaysian Chinese, Hong Kong Chinese, British born Chinese or whatever. In modern times, generally Chinese is used to describe a person from China. I KNOW this is deemed technically wrong but I am not going to preach every person I come across and drill it into them like some people I can think of...

    Joanne:
    Yes badminton is fun, but where is the fun in losing every time?

  13. #64
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    you forgot Yao Ming!!
    NBA- Houston Rockets- Center 7'5", #1 Draft Pick

    dude he's awesome!

  14. #65
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    Originally posted by TOmike
    you forgot Yao Ming!!
    NBA- Houston Rockets- Center 7'5", #1 Draft Pick
    dude he's awesome!
    haha! he's gettin better and better too!
    at the beginning of the season, he wasn't impressive... but he's progressing~~

  15. #66
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    Hmm, diverging from topic.

    Anyway, here's the 2nd part of the question.....

    Why do people regard overseas chinese as ...errr.... not chinese?

    It cannot be defined on culture or language.
    HK, M'sian and probably S'pore observe some very chinese special days (i.e. religious festivals) which are not officially recognised in China!

    I go up to my ancestors grave at certain times of the year to go and clear away the plants and tidy things up. That is a very Chinese thing to do yet not many "Chinese" people get the opportunity or take the effort to do so.

  16. #67
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    Originally posted by Cheung
    Hmm, diverging from topic.

    Anyway, here's the 2nd part of the question.....

    Why do people regard overseas chinese as ...errr.... not chinese?

    Not so according to the Chinese government. Overseas Chinese are considered as Chinese. The question is whether we, Overseas Chineses, considered ourselves to be "Chinese" . I think we do consider ourselves as "Chinese" in the cultural sense but not "Chinese" in the sense of nationals of China.

  17. #68
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    Originally posted by Winex West Can
    Not so according to the Chinese government. Overseas Chinese are considered as Chinese. The question is whether we, Overseas Chineses, considered ourselves to be "Chinese" . I think we do consider ourselves as "Chinese" in the cultural sense but not "Chinese" in the sense of nationals of China.
    The Chinese government assumes ethnic chinese to be 'chinese'.

    Overseas Chinese consider themselves chinese if they are ethnically chinese. Nobody can deny their genetic material but the affiliation to culture is of varying degrees.

    The Nigerian man example is not racially/ethnic chinese. He might be more culturally chinese though.

    OK, so I should rephrase my question a bit better...

    Why do SOME Ethnic Chinese living in China consider Overseas Chinese as not Chinese (though calling them 'wah qiu' in the same sentence)?

    PS
    Wizbit, One's nationality and one's ethnic origin are seperate issues. Somebody who is British may have come from India....

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