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  1. #120
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    Default the singaporean chinese

    most singaporean chinese would consider it an insult if everyone calls us chinese, about 80% of the population r chinese, whether 1st generation or as early as 4th generation, to others we simply would like to known as singaporean, for s'porean to s'porean it really doesnt matter, we know if u r chinese malay indian or others who r also singaporean

    likewise the malays will not feel right if u link them to malays in malaysia

    everyone here can speck english as well as their ethnic language as our eduacation system is bilingual..but whether u can speck cantonese or hokkian, teochew depends on whether your parents had taught u, but most would know their own dialet, if not the dialet of others, at least everyone knows the most common hokkian vulgarity

    our culture here do have some differences, but not so much that people cant recognaise the chinese origins

    i was watching this british import show, that helps u redesign your room. this british women with chinese heritage, didnt know nuts bout chinese culture wanted her home designed with chinese flavour, the designers got their references from books
    in the end they used "hell money", paper burnt as offering to ghosts as some sort of wall paper, thinking its some colourful(in USA it will be spelled color, we follow british)
    chinese paper. now every singaporean, even malays and indians would know thats chinese hell money, and thats ridiculous

    on a last note, this is wat i think other s'poeans feels, however it might not be accurate

  2. #121
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    Default Goodness gracious me !

    Anyone ever watch a BBC series called" goodness gracious me"

    and watch some Asians behaving like Westerners?

    At one time there was an uproar and protests when some Asians wanted to

    be defined as "black englishmen" .

    The Japanese and Koreans are more close -knit like some Europeans,

    they rarely lose their identity unlike others or those from "goodness gracious me ",

    a small minority no doubt.

  3. #122
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    I heard some time ago (years ago, so my memory may be playing tricks) that for Perivians, if your father is Peruvian you are Peruvian. It doesn't matter where you were born, where you live, what race or nationality your mother is.

    In England we have many Indians, Pakistanis and West Indians, and (jokingly, without trying to be too stereotypical) one can judge their nationality by which cricket team they support. Those born and raised in England will proudly support the English football team, but not the English cricket team (if they are playing their "home" nation).

    I call myself English but did I originate with Saxon invaders who forced the native Angles/Celts into Scotland/Wales/Cornwall (I'm sure the Scots would say no-one forced them there, nobody was tough enough to invade Scotland. Look what happened to the Romans)

    Are we all Pangeans? If all life originated in Africa (which at the time was part of the continent called Pangea when the atlas looked very different) are we all African?
    When did Americans start thinking they were American rather than British?
    If a large group of people colonised Antarctica and declared it their country how long would it take them to think they were a different nationality. They would develop a new culture and traditions based on the way of life in Antarctica.

    Is all culture just based on people celebrating that they have managed to grow enough food to survive, and thanking the sun for rising again? Damn those Christians for hijacking our festivals.

    And tradition is just old people not wanting to change their ways (and why should they - just don't try to force everybody else to do what you want)
    Or things like passing the port to the left, or putting you milk in the cup before the tea. Just ways to distinguish the rich from the poor. The haves and the have-nots. Tyranny and oppression

    enough ranting
    you are what you make of yourself

  4. #123
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    Originally posted by Neil Nicholls
    Is all culture just based on people celebrating that they have managed to grow enough food to survive, and thanking the sun for rising again? Damn those Christians for hijacking our festivals.

    And tradition is just old people not wanting to change their ways (and why should they - just don't try to force everybody else to do what you want)
    Or things like passing the port to the left, or putting you milk in the cup before the tea. Just ways to distinguish the rich from the poor. The haves and the have-nots. Tyranny and oppression
    A very interesting distinction between culture and tradition. One interesting tradition for Chinese is at Chinese New Year. Traditionally, it is a time when one goes back to the family home/visit relatives. Milliions of 'chinese' people do this as far as practically possible. I did this in UK (don't ask me why, it seemed 'appropriate'). There are a few interesting Chinese festivals where distant relatives meet together and not lose touch. If not, they would lose contact altogether. Maybe it's something from Confucius and high emphasis on family. As I recall in UK, English people with distant relatives tend to only meet up at weddings, funerals and Christmas.

  5. #124
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    Originally posted by Cheung
    A very interesting distinction between culture and tradition. One interesting tradition for Chinese is at Chinese New Year. Traditionally, it is a time when one goes back to the family home/visit relatives. Milliions of 'chinese' people do this as far as practically possible. I did this in UK (don't ask me why, it seemed 'appropriate'). There are a few interesting Chinese festivals where distant relatives meet together and not lose touch. If not, they would lose contact altogether. Maybe it's something from Confucius and high emphasis on family. As I recall in UK, English people with distant relatives tend to only meet up at weddings, funerals and Christmas.

    Hmm... yeah, that's true. For CNY, all my relatives, south, east, north will come down to Malacca and have a gathering... oh man. I love it!!!

  6. #125
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    hey answer me this question im kinda curious...
    i was born in china, came to aus when i was 7, have been here ever since, but visit china every year
    i can read and write chinese,
    i watch chinese series and movies
    i listen to chinese music
    iam raised by chinese speacking parents,
    and i speack chinese to all my chinese friends, what does that make me?
    ABC or not?

  7. #126
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    Well... I'm a Chinese born in Malaysia, can speak Chinese but don't do it much, can't really write Chinese...but still can though, not a fantastic one.

    I don't listen to ANY kind of music, nor do I watch any kind of shows... but sometimes just on the TV but never ever watch the Chinese drama and stuff like that... 1/2 hour is the most I can stand sitting on a cushion watching some screen.

    I'm sure many people won't consider me Chinese, but I do and that's all that matters to me. I've been proud to be Chinese since I was born, and I WILL NOT listen to stuff like I'm not Chinese etc etc etc.

  8. #127
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    yep2, Im not abc but most of my life are spent here in oz, hang out in pubs a batch english speaking friends (abc, fijis, etc) but I still watch chinese shows (there's always chinese rental shops around and now there's lot's more!), and I get CCTV4 and MTV china here at home, and that probably helps my chinese and cantonese language, cant write much, need a dictionary to write a letter

    but im still chinese, we still go back to hometown to celebrate chinese new year, or stay here and celebrate in chinatown or boxhill.

    I play golf, but i still love playing badminton more, coz I feel its more suitable for asian, small built and flexible *am i being biased now* sorry guyz

    nah just wanna say I'm a chinese no matter where I stay most of my life and no matter how i speak or behave, come on I look like one already ~

  9. #128
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    Something I read on another website...

    About some Singaporeans - there is a trend to convert their names to English ones...officially. Is this really true?

  10. #129
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    Originally posted by kwun
    ... to be "Chinese", one need to first be ethnically Chinese, it is not going to be too convincing when a white guy comes to us and trying to tell us that he is Chinese. but i think all of us will agree with that.
    I can't understand why this went unchallenged;

    If you went to the Bronx in NY and told a black man that he couldn't possibly be American then you'd better be able to run fast.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=racism
    rac·ism Audio pronunciation of racism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
    n.

    1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
    2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
    In one sentence you have discriminated against a Caucasian ever being considered Chinese, because _you_ are prejudiced based upon their ethnic race.
    (And I bet you don't think of yourself as racist, nor that you are intentionally malevolent to someone because of their race)

    The reality is that none of us is qualified to determine how Chinese, British, Canadian etc anyone else is - it is a personal issue. We could tell someone that they have certain traits that are commonly identified with a named country, but the moment we label someone we run the risk that we get it wrong. Heck, last night I was trying to describe someone new at my club during an after club meal, and foolishly used the word "Asian". Chaos ensued as everyone around the table tried to decide which of the various people at the club qualified under that label. Ironically, in the loosest use of the word we all would - our ancestors 40000 years ago moved from Africa into Middle Asia before spreading East to the Orient and West to Europe. Fortunately for me that was a "get out" since the gentleman in question turned out to be Brazilian. But I digress.

    As one of my fellow Brits pointed out earlier, the history of invasions has led to an ethnic diversity even with British-born Caucasians. Angles, Saxons, Celts, Vikings, Romans and Normans have all contributed their genes at some point. (And I'm sure I've missed some!). This is relevant. Very few if any people in Britain consider themselves an Anglo Saxon or Celt over considering themselves an Englishman or Scot. Yes, we are generally aware of where our looks come from (or speculate anyway), but the history is so long past that it is not very relevant to daily life. Those labels serve little purpose beyond historical perspectives on our various geneologies.
    This concept that time invalidates old labels and invites new labels is key to this discussion. The black man in the Bronx might be a first generation US-born of Kenyan parents and consider himself Kenyan. Or he may be a 10th generation US born man and consider himself American. He'll label himself appropriately to meet his needs in conversation and other aspect of daily life. But his choice of labels remains his, and not mine.

    Maybe you could label by passports. If you hold only one passport then you should consider yourself to be whatever that passport states you are. If you hold two then you get to be a mix. So I am a Brit. My son is British/American. One day when he is old enough to consider such memes, maybe he'll consider himself more American than British. Or vice-versa. His choice. But even this doesn't really work - consider the break up of the former Yugoslavia, the Kurds in Iraq, or the friend of mine born in Russia that I had always considered Russian. (He considers himself a Jew.)

    I had the good fortune this year to attend one of my best friends weddings in Singapore. His wife's father is Chinese, and her mother Malay. It was fascinating on so many levels - the wedding celebration had 3 phases, representing the 3 nationalities, and the rowdy Brits (who traditionally celebrate with alcohol) were seated as far away as possible from the Malays (who were fairly strict Islamics, ie teetotal). What was equally fascinating to me was the difference between my friend's wife and her sister. One is Christian, wears western clothes, drinks, smokes, is gregarious, confident and full of laughter. The other is Muslim wearing a Jihab and Abaya, quiet, teetotal, non-smoking.
    After that experience I've stopped trying to pigeon-hole people!

  11. #130
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    Originally posted by Sliced Drop
    In one sentence you have discriminated against a Caucasian ever being considered Chinese, because _you_ are prejudiced based upon their ethnic race.
    (And I bet you don't think of yourself as racist, nor that you are intentionally malevolent to someone because of their race)
    You have misinterpreted the term 'racism'. Just to clarify, your stated definition quotes one of 'superiority' which nobody has claimed here. Prejudice implies to me that you treat a person disrespectfully rather than as an equal. Not sure if anybody has intentionally sugeested that in this thread.

    but I do agree with you point about labelling. We should ask politely how people want to be regarded as. Just as my original point, if you are overseas chinese, many 'chinese' near China say you are not, though in the same breath they will call you 'overseas chinese' in the same breath.

    Obviously the distinctions between ethinic origins can be rather loose given the fact there has been mass migrations, intermarriage etc and rigid distinctions shouldn't be and obvously cannot be applied.

  12. #131
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    To me, if somebody was born in China or has Chinese nationality, then I will treat them as Chinese only if they claim themselves to be. Ie. If a white or black man were born in China or moved to China and acquired CHN nationality, etc. and called themselves to be Chinese, then I will accept them as Chinese just like I do any other ethnic Chinese within China.

    In fact, I will would much rather accept the 2 above examples to be Chinese than an ethnic Chinese who was born overseas or who moved from China (and got new nationality) but claims NOT to be Chinese in any way or has no pride in being Chinese.

    Many times I think in amazement and disbelief that others will accept me as Chinese but won't accept people with other ethnic backgrounds who can communicate, and understand the Chinese culture better than me and who've lived in China longer than me!

  13. #132
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    My, this thread is still alive.

    Don't understand Hugo, I seldom meet ethnic Chinese who

    are not proud of their Chinese origins, althogh quite common amongst Thais,

    Indonesians, Some Malaysians but believe me it is not thru their own choice!

    How can you deny someone's Chinese origins when they speak PutongHua a;beit

    with a twist,use chopsticks, learn all the same folk songs like Flower Drum Song

    learn the same Water Margin, Three Kingdoms etc ?

  14. #133
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    Well my parents are both Chinese.. i'm born in Malaysia. Definately look like Chinese. But i don't really know how to read chinese..and even write.. except my own name hahah..Used to get good grades in Chinese literature and writing when i was very young. Now i gave it all back to my school teacher.
    Does that mean that i'm not chinese when i'm born in Msia.
    Sometimes its kind of funny when i'm overseas, People ask me where i'm from. I wil say i'm from Malaysia.. a malaysian. Then their reply is " But you look like chinese?"
    Sometimes they think Malaysians are all Malays.

    So Joanne : what do you speak since ur not practising your chinese language? Bahasa or just plain english?

  15. #134
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    I will just say it simple. Chinese to me is a race and does not relates to your nationality. to me, Chinese is someone with chinese blood. Speaking chinese or not doesn't determines if u r a chinese.

    I m Born In Singapore. And as far as i know. many chinese don't speak mandarin(other than chinese lesson). because singapore is an english educated country. I Strongly feel that I AM NOT RELATED TO CHINA in anyway. I AM A SINGAPOREAN AND VERY PROUD TO BE 1! Sorry for those pure 'China'ist, But if everyone thinks that they are related to their ancestor's nation, Singapore will have no supporters.

    my Father is born in Malaysia, my Grandfather in China. But What the heck? I am born in Singapore, grew up here. and NEVER been to china. I am used to the life here. I would feel that china is a country which is as foreign as any european country. I will Definitely Supports Ronald Susilo than Chen Hong or Lin Dan. I will also support Malaysia's Team more then China Because my father is closer(in generation) than my grandfather.

    Yes. i grew up speaking Mandarin, As so, i feel speaking in chinese being more 'Close'. Definitly, i would Wish that my wife speaks it too(relax, i am single). But fleuntly or not depends on the country. In China my Mandarin would feel more Singlish to them but here its our standard 'Mandarin' just like our 'English'

    Conclusion: People from china thinks being Chinese is somewhat a nationality or nation of origin. they must behave and think like 1.
    In many other countries, I believe, Being Chinese is just a race.

  16. #135
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    Anyway, I am proud to be a Chinese too. Chinese people are very united and have great achivements. i would be glad even is a chinese from European country does a great achievement. Because we are the same race. and chinese from China, We are related by race too, but not country. But being too bias in race makes u a racist. so in the main. we are all humans and should not be judged by races. That's seems familiar.. somehow the meaning of singapore pledge.

  17. #136
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    You are chinese as in Chinese or chinese?

    My view is that the Chinese and us chinese here overseas are more of cousins than close relatives.

    I thought this thread was banned last year for stirring up racial sentiments?

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