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  1. #35
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    I am no economist but I don't think the supply and demand apply either. I think the price reflects people's preference on convenience of more court time and less waiting. And of course, the environment, customer service, and more importantly, where-my-friends-play. So, I think the price will stay up unless someone gets desperate. The only thing is if any owners make terrible decision, e.g. letting the gym deteriorate, poor service, or jacking up the price, players can move to another nearby gym much easier.

  2. #36
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    Let me try that again

    If you're not playing there often, then $7, $8 per play is not gonna break your wallet. But if you play a lot, you should take advantage of their Grand Opening special. It's like ~$230 for weekend only (annually). So this amounts to about $2-$3 each time, if you play once each of Sat/Sun every week. There are other packages. You can compare with other clubs' membership also, I suppose. The way I see it, competition does drive down the price.

    For the example that you gave, if lowering the price doesn't help the business, raising the price is certainly not gonna help. Presumably some other factors are in play.

    Again, the price differential between per-play drop-in rate and annual membership package is to encourage you to sign in early as a member. It's good for them, and for you.

  3. #37
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    oh, i'm not talking about CBA. lol. The grand opening price is awesome. However, I just think the prices that was set at first was a random price. Bintang used to have it for 4-5 bucks and once UBC came out and put the price at 7$, it was overwhelming. And I think that is when all other club started to raise the prices at >$7. I hope that if there are more clubs, then the prices would go down. However, when people talk about the demand, they only talk about the supply. You got to factor is which issue that shift the demand curve. i.e:

    change of income
    personal preferences
    changes in substitute prices ( other gyms)
    population sizes
    expectation
    climate.

    Therefore, I do not think if we have more gyms, the prices would be lower. I think location is the key point. People won't drive 10miles more just because a place is 2 dollars cheaper. $7-8 might not be expensive for you, but its a lot to many people. Also, not many people have enough $ to buy annual pass to have great discount. But I guess there's nothing to complain, badminton is an expensive sport. lol
    Last edited by eeyore12345; 04-28-2010 at 01:25 AM.

  4. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by eeyore12345 View Post
    oh, i'm not talking about CBA. lol.
    Oh, LOL I also see I need to refresh my ECON101. In case you don't notice, some of the gyms are now really within 10 miles (or even closer) of each other. If they're all off H.W., it really isn't that far apart. A price change would have an effect, all else equal.
    Last edited by raymond; 04-28-2010 at 02:01 AM.

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by eeyore12345 View Post
    I don't think that is the case. You got to know the opening a professional badminton gym here in Bay Area is something new. I don't think it is the demand, the demand is always there, but only to a limit. By opening a new gym, the population will be diluted and therefore not enough money to gain in 1 place. I really think the price is higher because not enough people are playing at there gym. They simply cannot lower the prices because it won't be enough to even pay monthly rent.
    The reason I don't think there are more gyms because of the demands because whenever a new gym open, the rest of the gym lose customers. Haven't you noticed the trend? The owners simply cannot lower the price because even if they do, the customers aren't always going to their club. Mainly because factors such as competitive and locations comes into play. I know of a club that tried to lower their prices because they have few customers, however it went out of business after a couple of months.

    I don't think the theory of supply and demand apply to badminton that much. It's pretty logic to think that if you lower your price to 3 dollars an open gym, and someone could always open another badminton gym and offer the same and all the other gym would offer the same rate. Your gym would go out of business in no time. I think the high prices are just to pay back the rent and investment they put in.
    Well you know better than me, you live there, but normally a reduced demand in relation to supply brings lower prices, hence why deflation occurs in a contracting economy (amongst other reasons)

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    BTW, judging from the number of gyms started/run here, I get the impression that money supply here is not that tight. Most gyms expect they can survive and quite possibly thrive.

    So you might actually have a lot more people that can afford to pay for an annual membership than you might think, assuming they believe the deal is much better than other monthly deals they have seen, or that they might continue to see.

  7. #41
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    yup, normally. I also hope that is the case lol. However, I saw this trend.

    open gym before 1-3 dollars
    Bintang before 5 bucks
    UBC 7dollars
    GGBC i think 8 dollars
    BAY Badminton i think it was 10 dollars before but maybe 8.

    Hopefully with more gym, the prices will be lower. Only time can tell. But most of the players like to play at gyms that have competitive players. CBA grand opening monthly pass of $25 is a very very good price. Definitely going to get one. lol

  8. #42
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    I don't know about you guys, but in a weird way I'm glad that the prices are high. There are a lot of high school gyms in the bay area that have open gym on weekends and these open gyms are vital as far as raising money for the high school badminton teams.

    Because of the high prices at Bintang/GGBC/BBC/etc..., people tend to come to the high school open gyms more because we only charge $3-$4. I mean, sure we might not have the best lines and floors, but you still could have some pretty good games here and there.

    I always tell my players that our gym is like a Denny's while places like Bintang or GGBC is like Ruth's Chris. Denny's is a place you can afford everyday whereas Ruth's Chris is a place you can go once in a (long) while.

    I believe high school badminton is also a major factor as to why badminton has been so popular in the Bay Area and in So Cal. If you look at the tournaments that we have, most recently the UC Davis Badminton tournament, the majority of the participants started playing badminton in high school.

    So, in order to keep high school badminton competitive and alive, our open gyms need to be full. And what better way to keep the gyms full then to have our prices lower than the club prices. If those badminton clubs offered the same prices as we do, there would be no way we could compete with that. And that in turn could mean the end of high school badminton.

  9. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsharks429 View Post
    Because of the high prices at Bintang/GGBC/BBC/etc..., people tend to come to the high school open gyms more because we only charge $3-$4. I mean, sure we might not have the best lines and floors, but you still could have some pretty good games here and there.

    I always tell my players that our gym is like a Denny's while places like Bintang or GGBC is like Ruth's Chris. Denny's is a place you can afford everyday whereas Ruth's Chris is a place you can go once in a (long) while.
    that's an interesting way to look at it.

    from the consumer point of view, club offers a bit more than HS gyms, imho. clubs are opened all the time. most places are open everyday till 11pm. that offers a lot of flexibility for the player. most of the HS gyms i have been to are only open a few hours in the weekends. for those who has family, it is difficult to schedule around those hours. most clubs also offer much better flooring and lighting than HS gyms.

    i see that majority of club goers are not students and those who are working can afford the slightly higher cost for the quality and convenience.

    from the point of view of the club as a business. they need to make enough money to sustain operation.

    to charge $3-4 will not be enough. if you gather the info and do all the calculation with rent, salaries, members count, court count. you will find that very interestingly the membership/dropin income is only enough for a club to break-even or make a little money, anything extra comes from coaching fees. so if you drop the membership/drop-in in half, most clubs will have more problem finding enough income to justify the operation.

  10. #44
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    Arrow Even if the business breaks even, operators would also close their operations down

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post

    Well you know better than me, you live there, but normally a reduced demand in relation to supply brings lower prices, hence why deflation occurs in a contracting economy (amongst other reasons)

    .
    But if the prices drop down real low that the operators lose money, then the operators would close down their operations.

    Also what kwun has posted;
    Quote Originally Posted by kwun View Post

    from the point of view of the club as a business. they need to make enough money to sustain operation.

    Even if the business breaks even, operators would also close their operations down. They would move to other better business ventures. Since most operators are Chinese, they might move to the Chinese restaurant business.
    .

  11. #45
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    What's the money behind the HS open gym? Does CA tax payers pay part of the cost?

  12. #46
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    Arrow HS are not hiring out their halls to make profits

    Quote Originally Posted by kan2005 View Post

    What's the money behind the HS open gym? Does CA tax payers pay part of the cost?

    .
    The costs for hall hire from HS are cheaper than from community centres. HS halls are already built (whether they are hired out or not). When HS hire their halls out, they only need to consider the following;
    * Electricity cost
    * Cleaning cost
    * Damage/maintenance cost
    * etc......

    The above list assumes that HS are not hiring out their halls to make profits, but to allow others to use their halls when sitting idle.
    .

  13. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    But if the prices drop down real low that the operators lose money, then the operators would close down their operations.
    Yes and so the Supply & demand balance is broken & prices rise in the remaining outlets as there is less competition. There is never total equilibrium.

    Relating backto High school Gyms, it is an interesting point that the opening of these larger centres has helped schools (& therfore school badminton) asthey are perceived as cheap now, so more popular...Good news all round..

  14. #48
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    Default off topic-definitely..

    Quote Originally Posted by kan2005 View Post
    What's the money behind the HS open gym? Does CA tax payers pay part of the cost?
    ..high schools and other public schools in CA are funded by the taxpayers' money. A lot of it from state funding and small portion through local sources (property tax).
    Some public schools don't charge a fee to play and some public schools charge a fee to play.
    For example, I've played @ a high school gym & @ a public junior college without the need to pay any additional fees.
    But i've also played @ public schools which charge additional fees to play. One example is SMC (Santa Monica College) baddy club. They use a public facility yet when we want to play there, they'll charge everyone who plays.

    Btw, i just noticed the initials of California Badminton Academy is CBA...and the owner used to play for CBA (Chinese Badminton Association)..coincidence??..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 04-28-2010 at 07:13 PM.

  15. #49
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    the other interesting part about the HS gyms is that they are already built and most of the time sitting idle as the school cannot utilize the venue fully. so there is little cost to open up a HS gym for open gym. of course they cannot do that full time like a dedicated club do.

    i think both will co-exist in this market. the HS gyms will be low cost to play in, cheap to operate but provide limited time and amenities. the dedicated clubs will cost more, however they open full hours and have dedicated flooring, lightings as well as coaching services.

  16. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsharks429 View Post
    I always tell my players that our gym is like a Denny's while places like Bintang or GGBC is like Ruth's Chris. Denny's is a place you can afford everyday whereas Ruth's Chris is a place you can go once in a (long) while.
    yeah but ..... i would rather go to ruth's chris? .... the only time i'll go denny's is when it is 3am and there is no other place that is open ....

  17. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    Relating backto High school Gyms, it is an interesting point that the opening of these larger centres has helped schools (& therfore school badminton) asthey are perceived as cheap now, so more popular...Good news all round..
    I don't think that's what was said. I think the OP said it's fortunate that the larger centers do match the prices with that of H.S. THink about it. Before any of these centers open, everyone has no where to go but H.S. Now that some clubs are opened, they'd only server to take "customers" away. So do expect a net loss of players to H.S. But it's not a total loss...

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