My serve has been deemed illegal by my new club.

**taneepak** · 07-06-2010, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Smithy88

I guess it depends on how fast the motion is to determine if there is a pause or not. A quick motion back and forth would not notice but a slower yet fluid motion may look as though there is one.

A back to foreward movement serve is fine. But a quick backward to foreward, then backward and foreward again is a fault. The first has no pause in between, the second is a "double" stroke similar to some deceptive strokes that better players use for deception and also increased leverage.

**Mark A** · 07-06-2010, 10:52 AM

Once the racket starts to go forward, it cannot stop until it hits the shuttle or it is a fault. Otherwise: all good in the hood - you can use variations of speed and direction all you like.

**Smithy88** · 07-06-2010, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

A back to foreward movement serve is fine. But a quick backward to foreward, then backward and foreward again is a fault. The first has no pause in between, the second is a "double" stroke similar to some deceptive strokes that better players use for deception and also increased leverage.

Personally i avoid it all together as i don't do a backswing, i always felt drawing the racket back put me off the serve but thats just me.

**Gollum** · 07-06-2010, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mark A

Once the racket starts to go forward, it cannot stop until it hits the shuttle or it is a fault. Otherwise: all good in the hood - you can use variations of speed and direction all you like.

That's no longer true. The following is now a fault serve:

Backswing -- discernible pause -- forwards swing

BE are crystal-clear about this: they give that as an example of a fault serve in their videos on badminton.tv

***jamesd20*** · 07-06-2010, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Gollum

That's no longer true. The following is now a fault serve:

Backswing -- discernible pause -- forwards swing

BE are crystal-clear about this: they give that as an example of a fault serve in their videos on badminton.tv

Yup the rules changed to talk about service motion being continuous. The definition of the service motion was when the racket starts to come back.

The ambiguity is the "discernable" bit. But IMO you can see the rhythm & if that rhythm is disturbed, then its a fault.

**Mark A** · 07-06-2010, 03:06 PM

I'm now wondering if my serve is "suspect" - I don't really "address" the shuttle before I hit it (that is, I don't go "back-forward"); I just hold the racket about six or eight inches behind the shuttle and play through without a backswing.

**druss** · 07-06-2010, 03:50 PM

The discussion so far has been based on when the racket makes a backward forward motion but based on the written rules there s nothing saying that you have to move backwards first. I think the service has started at the first motion of the racket once it has been placed behind the shuttle regardless of whether that's a backward then forward motion or forward motion only.

**druss** · 07-06-2010, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by jamesd20

What they are getting at with the pause is a discernable pause between backward & forward motion. Naturally there is a point in time where the racket is not moving, but whether or not th pause is large or not depends on the speed of the backswing.

It is usually quite easy to tell or not.....

Exactly what I was getting at... so in response to taneepak... yes that's so. When ever you change direction of something there is always a slight pause as you can't go from one direction to another direction instantaneously. The wording of "delay" has the following definition:

–verb (used with object) 1. to put off to a later time; defer; postpone: The pilot delayed the flight until the weather cleared.

2. to impede the process or progress of; retard; hinder: The dense fog delayed the plane's landing.

–verb (used without object) 3. to put off action; linger; loiter: He delayed until it was too late.

Even if you don't "delay" the service between the backward and forward motion there is always a point when the racket is not moving.

As to whether that "distracts" the opponent... well I guess that depends on the opponent.

Keep in mind that many of the rules are open to the interpretation of the umpire and each individual player. I'm not advocating a 1-2 second delay between the motions but you can't instantaneously change directions either.

**Smithy88** · 07-06-2010, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by druss

Exactly what I was getting at... so in response to taneepak... yes that's so. When ever you change direction of something there is always a slight pause as you can't go from one direction to another direction instantaneously. The wording of "delay" has the following definition:

–verb (used with object) 1. to put off to a later time; defer; postpone: The pilot delayed the flight until the weather cleared.

2. to impede the process or progress of; retard; hinder: The dense fog delayed the plane's landing.

–verb (used without object) 3. to put off action; linger; loiter: He delayed until it was too late.

Even if you don't "delay" the service between the backward and forward motion there is always a point when the racket is not moving.

As to whether that "distracts" the opponent... well I guess that depends on the opponent.

Keep in mind that many of the rules are open to the interpretation of the umpire and each individual player. I'm not advocating a 1-2 second delay between the motions but you can't instantaneously change directions either.

There you go blundy, you're service is retarded

***jamesd20*** · 07-06-2010, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mark A

I'm now wondering if my serve is "suspect" - I don't really "address" the shuttle before I hit it (that is, I don't go "back-forward"); I just hold the racket about six or eight inches behind the shuttle and play through without a backswing.

Someone will probably correct me, but it is still legal. The rules don't say there has to be a backswing. They say the serve is started when the serving motion begins. In your cse your motion begins at the back & only goes forward.

I find it hard to believe you have no backswing though, it would look most odd....

**Smithy88** · 07-06-2010, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by jamesd20

Someone will probably correct me, but it is still legal. The rules don't say there has to be a backswing. They say the serve is started when the serving motion begins. In your cse your motion begins at the back & only goes forward.

I find it hard to believe you have no backswing though, it would look most odd....

I don't either, its just the way i serve. I just flick it over the net with different degrees of force. For me a backswing gives an idea of what you are going to do.

**Mark A** · 07-06-2010, 05:02 PM

For me a backswing gives an idea of what you are going to do.

Exactly - that's why I did away with mine

.

***jamesd20*** · 07-07-2010, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by Smithy88

I don't either, its just the way i serve. I just flick it over the net with different degrees of force. For me a backswing gives an idea of what you are going to do.

That wold give it away to me. The backswing and forward swing should be the same for wherever the serve is going (straight/wide/deep/short & combinations thereof) the only difference should be the "flick" at the ends, which gives the direction & power (if neccessary)

**Gollum** · 07-07-2010, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Mark A

I'm now wondering if my serve is "suspect" - I don't really "address" the shuttle before I hit it (that is, I don't go "back-forward"); I just hold the racket about six or eight inches behind the shuttle and play through without a backswing.

That's legal. There's no requirement to use a backswing; but if you do, you must not pause before making your forwards swing.

**Smithy88** · 07-07-2010, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by Gollum

That's legal. There's no requirement to use a backswing; but if you do, you must not pause before making your forwards swing.

How can you not pause before you do a forward swing then? Its one fluid motion forwards, what counts as a pause in this case. I suppose if you stand there for 10 seconds not serving then fine but what would be a delay in this case?

***Cheung*** · 07-07-2010, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Smithy88

How can you not pause before you do a forward swing then? Its one fluid motion forwards, what counts as a pause in this case. I suppose if you stand there for 10 seconds not serving then fine but what would be a delay in this case?

Easy answer. If your backswing has a circular path and then goes forward, it will not pause....

But gong back to the original question, a video of the "illegal" serve would be extremely helpful.

I pick up a few clues that the club is actually not a very high standard club.

a) collective voice given to the chairman of the club i.e. there is doubt within the other players

b) new kid on the block in the club

c) OP is in UK.

So I say, enjoy the game, cope with a disadvantage, get better and perhaps move on when you outgrow the club.

**Smithy88** · 07-07-2010, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Cheung

Easy answer. If your backswing has a circular path and then goes forward, it will not pause....

But gong back to the original question, a video of the "illegal" serve would be extremely helpful.

What i mean is if you just place the racket between you and the shuttle then hit what is an illegal pause. That is different to placing the racket, moving back and then moving forward.