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  1. #1
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    Default All England Men's Singles Draw

    I've just checked out the draws for All England Men Singles (http://217.204.34.207/ibf/testdraw4....main_or_qual=M)

    It looks like the draw hugely unfavours the seeded players of China. #1 Chen Hong Seed has to face Chen Hong has to face #9 seed Bao Chunlai in the round of 16. #3 Seed has to face #10 seed Lin Dan in the Round of 16. What is going on here? I thought players from the same country, especially when they are seeded, are suppose to face each other as late in the draw as possible.

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    Lee Chong Wei has replaced James Chua. As Malaysia's new national champion, he is out to prove that he is capable of replacing the seniors in time to come. Hope he will perform well in the All England.

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    I think Bao Chunlai has a little problem in the 2. round called Peter Gade, so I am not sure he will get to meet Chen Hong in the 3. round.

    I watched Gade in the weekend on danish television (danish championship), and he looked good. In the semifinals he beat Kenneth Jonassen in a great match, and in the finals he was just a class better than Anders Boesen.

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    I fully agree. I for one would like to see Peter Gade make a comeback.
    I am from Malaysia, and sometimes I feel us Asians are too cocky by overlooking the European and North American players. Denmark, England, Netherlands, USA, Germany...have some players that are capable of beating anyone on their good day.
    Perhaps Chinese fans should have a more open mind and not always predict that their players will meet each other further into the tournament. Don't forget the semi-finals in Thomas Cup not too long ago, dragons can be slain.

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    Originally posted by wl2172
    I fully agree. I for one would like to see Peter Gade make a comeback.
    I am from Malaysia, and sometimes I feel us Asians are too cocky by overlooking the European and North American players. Denmark, England, Netherlands, USA, Germany...have some players that are capable of beating anyone on their good day.
    Perhaps Chinese fans should have a more open mind and not always predict that their players will meet each other further into the tournament. Don't forget the semi-finals in Thomas Cup not too long ago, dragons can be slain.
    Agreed with you except for the N. Am. players. US and Canada are just not there yet except maybe for Tony G.

    Germany is another up and coming nation.

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    Looks like top seed is going to be ambushed all the way,

    Bao,Gade, Taufik, Lee Chong Wei etc.

    Wong Choon Han has an easier path, provided he gets past

    Yong.

    Even if top 2 seeds meet in final, they will be totally exhausted.

    Must be one of most intense AE's.

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    Originally posted by wl2172
    I fully agree. I for one would like to see Peter Gade make a comeback.
    I am from Malaysia, and sometimes I feel us Asians are too cocky by overlooking the European and North American players. Denmark, England, Netherlands, USA, Germany...have some players that are capable of beating anyone on their good day.
    Perhaps Chinese fans should have a more open mind and not always predict that their players will meet each other further into the tournament. Don't forget the semi-finals in Thomas Cup not too long ago, dragons can be slain.
    I should have rephrased my original question. My original point wasn't to state that Bao is going to get past Gade and face either Chen Hong, Ng Wei, or Lee in the round of 16. My orignal question is aren't seeded players who are from the same country always placed as far away from each other from the draw as possible? Even non seeded players, unless they are qualifiers, who are from the same countries are placed as far from each other in a draw.

    As for European Countries, true that they have strong players, but for the past few years, in Grand Prix Tournaments where the best Asian players and the best European players both are participating in, players from an Asian coutry seems to have a huge edge over the players from other countries.

    There are lots of great players from Europe (and since Tony Gunawan is in North America, and Kevin Han and Howard Bach seems to be doing pretty well, I guess I should also say U.S.A. has some great players too), but judging only from Tournaments that took place between 2000 till present, wouldn't you say Asian Countries still have an edge over European countries in badminton?

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    Originally posted by wl2172
    Lee Chong Wei has replaced James Chua. As Malaysia's new national champion, he is out to prove that he is capable of replacing the seniors in time to come. Hope he will perform well in the All England.
    Lee Chong Wei will have to get past (likely oponents) Chen Hong, Peter Gade, Taufik Hidayat (which incidently would normally be good enough to win most championships) just to get to the semis.

    What happened to Hendrawan? I remember reading about his entry in one of the other posts. Did he withdraw or does he have to go through qualifying?

    Just a point I'd like to make, it's a shame that the seeding (world rankings included) do not repersent the true abilities of players. People like Taufik, Peter Gade, Candra, Sigit aren't among the top seeds - some of them not even seeded! It seems to me that only 3 times every 4 years are the ranking accurate, after the two world championships and the olympic games. Pity... or am I alone on this?

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    Yes, I agree. It can get funny at times. But ranking points and recent tournaments are stii used as a yardstick for draws. Also, the organiser have to think about ticket sales. They want to make sure that the top players do not get knocked out too early.
    Lee Chong Wei has a good chance to prove himself here...and I have a strange feeling that he will, despite a draw that not even Chen Hong himself will fancy.

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    Default Hendrawan

    If I remenber well, Handrawan has to play in qualification, and after that he will face...Chen Hong in his first match.

    Thats a tricky seeding!
    Last edited by Dzgdz; 02-06-2003 at 11:24 AM.

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    Anybody know the schedule for the week yet? i want to know which day to go to see Gade pay Chen Hong.

    Neil

    PS and Mark Constable to play Gade - the way i figure it is that if Mark qualifies it is Gade that he will play

    Neil

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    Default Re: All England Men's Singles Draw

    Originally posted by edwin
    I've just checked out the draws for All England Men Singles (http://217.204.34.207/ibf/testdraw4....main_or_qual=M)

    It looks like the draw hugely unfavours the seeded players of China. #1 Chen Hong Seed has to face Chen Hong has to face #9 seed Bao Chunlai in the round of 16. #3 Seed has to face #10 seed Lin Dan in the Round of 16. What is going on here? I thought players from the same country, especially when they are seeded, are suppose to face each other as late in the draw as possible.
    i don't believe that is the case.

    the seedings are determined by world ranking, and the location of the seeds in the draw is fixed. there is no tweakability there.

    and for the non-seeded entries, they are "supposed" to be randomly selected. and thus there are luckier draws and less lucky draws as you have pointed out above.

    this is the only "fair" way to do it, it will be immensely unfair and prone to political manipulation if the draws can be arbitrarily arranged by the organizers.

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    Question others are unhappy

    http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp...jes&sec=sports

    Choong Hann upset with All-England draw

    By RAJES PAUL
    PETALING JAYA: Top national top shuttler Wong Choong Hann is upset over rules that will see him facing his own teammates in the early rounds at the All-England badminton championships starting on Wednesday at the National Indoor Arena in Birmingham.

    In the draw released by the International Badminton Federation (IBF), Choong Hann, the second seed, Yong Hock Kin and Mohd Hafiz Hashim have all been bunched in the same quarter in the bottom half of the draw.

    Choong Hann will likely face Hock Kin in the second round. One of them may meet Hafiz in the last eight, if he makes it that far.

    China also face a similar situation. Top seed Chen Hong could meet compatriot Bao Chunlai in the third round while third seed Xia Xuanze could face Lin Dan in another third round match.

    “Previously, it was difficult for top players of the same country to meet each other in the early rounds. Now, it looks like you cannot run away from your own teammates. Maybe there are some positive points for implementing this rule but I certainly do not enjoy it,” said Choong Hann, who will play Germany's Jens Roch in the first round.

    “Only the top two players in a country are placed in different halves of the draw but the others are just put anywhere. I cannot help but think the draw could be fixed. It is like playing in a national meet but abroad,” said Choong Hann, who aims to reach at least the semi-finals in the US$125,000 meet.

    Since last September, the IBF had decide to separate only the top two players from each country. The eight seeds are also put in different sections of the draw.

    The others are drawn randomly with a computer-generated programme. Prior to that, the top four players in each country were separated.

    IBF director of events Vanessa Freeman explained why the international body had introduced the new ruling. “We want to have a fair draw. We decided that separating the top two players into two different halves and dividing the top eight seeded players into different sections was enough.

    “The others should fight it out and the best person from each country wins,” said Freeman.

    “But we have regulations that prevent players from meeting each other in the first round. We know the country would have spent money to prepare the team and they would at least get to play one match.”

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp...dmi&sec=sports

    England manager Traerup attacks match programme

    BIRMINGHAM: Malaysia are not the only disappointed team with the All-England draw.

    England manager Finn Traerup launched an attack yesterday upon the system which causes leading players to compete against each other in the early rounds of major events.

    His quarrel, however, was with Asian players who peak only for specific tournaments and therefore languish behind in the rankings despite their abilities.

    Traerup is disappointed that a major blow has been dealt to home hopes for the second year in a row.

    England's Malaysian Open champions Nathan Robertson and Gail Emms are seeded to reach the mixed doubles final but have been drawn for a likely last eight meeting against the world's best pair, Zhang Jun and Gao Ling, the world and Olympic champions.

    Last year, Robertson and Emms were seeded to reach the semi-finals, only to land a first round meeting with former All-England champions from South Korea, Kim Dong-moon and Ra Kyung-min, who were not seeded. The Koreans went on to win the title again.

    “What's happened is disappointing for home players and therefore disappointing for the tournament, because if it is to be successful, it is quite important for home players to do well,” said Traerup.

    “This has been discussed many times, so if it continues to happen it is not satisfactory. The best thing that could happen is that Asian players would play 10 tournaments and then we wouldn't have this scenario.

    “The system was designed to encourage Asians to compete more.

    “If you want a simple system then there is a risk of this type of situation.”

    Traerup is part of a working group which the International Badminton Federation will consult on this issue during the All-England championships.

    The group has representatives from China, Denmark, England, Sweden and Canada. – AFP

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    thats pretty interesting, and while i read it i laughed in my mind at this guy.. clearly he is mad that all the Asian countries are getting all the wins here. i hope nothing changes, because what the asian players are doing is a strategy, and that strategy is part of the game, whether the English players like it or not.

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    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    First Chen Hong has to play Hendrawan, then tricky Lee Chong Wei,

    then either Bao or Gade, then Taufik.

    If he can beat them all he even surpasses Ji Xin Peng's feat in Olympics.

    All the games will go to 3 sets, I wonder how Chen Hong can last.

    If he gets even to semis, he would be great.

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    Traerup is sure riled up about players pacing themselves to peak at certain tournaments. Well, that is true for almost all sports.

    Look at the ways that you can get yourself up high on the rankings (no disrepect to Kevin Han of the US) by playing in and wining the smaller satellite tourneys to rake up points.

    For sure, some players will not play in those tournaments and train for the bigger tourneys. Disadvantages for these players included having to either qualify (e.g. P Gade did that when he returned from his injuries) and playing more so wearing out.

    Advantages for players like K. Han is that they get seeded and maybe get a bye in the early round.

    The truth is that in the big tourneys, nothing is going to be easy (that's the whole idea, isn't it)

    Just wish that we can get the matches live in N. Am.

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    Originally posted by Winex West Can
    Traerup is sure riled up about players pacing themselves to peak at certain tournaments. Well, that is true for almost all sports.

    Look at the ways that you can get yourself up high on the rankings (no disrepect to Kevin Han of the US) by playing in and wining the smaller satellite tourneys to rake up points.

    That's the thing, I suggested to worldbadminton.net that they have a function in their sorting of rankings for points per tournament competed to see who the real best players are, as opposed to who compete the most, which is what the current system shows :P (this is not as true for singles, however applies to the other disciplines).

    Basically in the doubles disciplines (including mixed) the top pairs will average over 300 points per outing, whilst the highest ranked pairs often only score in the mid to low 200s. Looking at mixed, where most of the top ranked pairs are Euros, Kim/Ra average over 450 points per tournament which is exceptional, far better than any other pair, showing them to be much, much better than anyone above them in ranking. The only other pair over 300 is, surprise, surprise, Zhang/Gao. All the pairs ranked above them have played twice (or more) times as many tournaments, but have a much lower strike rate. (Note to have a strike rate 50% higher than your next highest comtemporary is statistically truely remarkable).

    Anyone else what to email workldbadminton.net for me? I think I put forward a pretty convincing argument to find the best players ;P

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