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Thread: Talented Player

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    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Default Talented Player

    In my short time on Earth (to date ) and even shorter time being facinated about badminton and the 'development of badminton players', I came to observe a difference in 'type of players' that existed,... a phenomena that I believe you can observe not only in the International Badminton scene but prolly even at your local badminton hall.

    There are occurance of what we may call 'talented players' among normal players and even other 'subset' categories of players which we may label (out of human nature not prejudice).

    Today, I hope to focus this Thread on the topic of 'Talented Players' only. Definition & attributes, suggested players in the world badminton scene which fulfill the criterias, and of course further discussion regarding the topic.

    Before I continue, I would like to stress that 'Talented Player' does not 100% equate to = 'World Class Player' as these Talented players have varying degree of success, commitment, actual ability / potential and all the other intangible factors you can fit in this page.

    Regards, and I hope for a fruitful discussion for everyone.

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    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Default Definition & Attributes

    The Talented Player.

    The discussion will look from the perspective of a 'match player', i.e. the conduct of a player on the badminton court and the manner the they 'play the game'.

    Please avoid the temptation to view the discussion from a 'coaching' point of view... since every student who 'learns how to hit a shuttle with little guidance / direction from a coach' would be considered a talented player. So the main focus of the discussion should be towards 'match play', match play, and match play.

    Any player which display a majority of such attributes and etc can be considered as a 'talented player'... Please do not hesitate to add any attribute you feel i'm missing out.

    1) A strong sense of the game (perhaps from a strong upbringing in a dense badminton environment)

    2) A varrying approach to matches (Pace & Style varrying skills)

    3) Match tempo control skills

    4) Cool under pressure aka big match player (irrespective of level)

    5) Makes playing badminton look effortless / easy.

    6) A 'shot maker'

    7) Match winning skills againts apparent 'higer level' players (more physical or 'senior' players)

    8) Low percentage for unforced errors

    9) The best of them in this category would of course have strong 'finishing moves' to end rallies abruptly.


    This is what I can come up with at the moment. Will add more when it shows up in my grey area.

    Cheers

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    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Default List of Talented players

    A talented player may or may not be a top top flight player. They have attributes, whether or not they grow into a top class world player is a different point.

    We can discuss which players could / should be in this list... Past and Present. Let's leave the future out for the time being. My short list to begin with are as follows. Some are none brainers, so enjoy.

    List of Talented Players (Non Exhaustive, to be expanded) (In no particular order)
    1) Taufik Hidayat (MS INA)
    2) Zhao Jian Hua (MS CHN Past)
    3) Habis Hashim (oops) (MS MAS)
    4) Arif Latif (MS MAS)
    5) Ng Hui Lin (WD MAS)
    6) Bao Chun Lai (MS CHN)
    7) Rexy Manaiky (MD INA Past)
    8) Peter Gade (MS DEN)
    9) Gurusaidat (MS IND)

    Please feel free to add who you think should be considered as a talented player.

    Regards,
    Last edited by jug8man; 07-25-2010 at 07:26 AM.

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    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    well, that was a good summary

    in fact very detail of what to expect

    i think if i look into lin dan, taufik, peter gade and lee chong wei

    i think i have found your answer

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    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Thank you pBm,

    Out of respect, yes we would call all the World Class Players as 'Talented'.

    However that would defeat the purpose of the discussion. A talented player must have special flair. We must put the players 'success' aside as things other than 'talent' may be the reason for their success.

    Look at Shon Soeng Mo. Olympic Silver Medalist but i can't even spell his name right. Talented? Or a different category.

    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    well, that was a good summary

    in fact very detail of what to expect

    i think if i look into lin dan, taufik, peter gade and lee chong wei

    i think i have found your answer

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    A talented player must be able to learn quickly.

    I think most of those attributes in post 2 can be taught and learnt. A talented person can pick these up ore quickly.

    A talented person can also work harder. You cannot simply play to an international level by playing twice a week.

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    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    Intanon Ratchanok of thailand..

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    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    choi hoi jin is also talented against lin dan

    1-0 win in favor of him so far...

    we can find here and there and almost everywhere a lot of talented players

    but we will never find a 100% talented player

    he or she just never exist yet

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    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    Dude,
    talent is not measure on H2H against LD.
    Anyway, jug8man, on point no.4, if you consider a player to have every other attribute besides that one, will you still call him a talented player? A all round player who gets nervous at crucial stages?

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    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by undeadshot View Post
    Dude,
    talent is not measure on H2H against LD.
    you didn't read in between the line or it wasn't clear

    its just one example to say choi hoi jin is talented against lin dan

    and here obviously there is nothing to measure

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    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by undeadshot View Post
    Dude,
    talent is not measure on H2H against LD.
    Anyway, jug8man, on point no.4, if you consider a player to have every other attribute besides that one, will you still call him a talented player? A all round player who gets nervous at crucial stages?
    Thank you shot of the undead. This is the kind of discussion i'm looking for.

    Yes, a talented player may not have all of the attributes in that list. So may still be considered a Talented player. However, you pointed out point no. 4....

    Somehow this is not really something you can train a person for. So yes, I suppose point no 4 has a greater weightage compared to the others. So it would be hard to call a person 'talented' if he/she did not have this attribute.

    However, having point. no 4 (ie being cool under pressure / big match player) still does not guarantee that the player wins the match.

    cheers

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    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    I cant say that CHJ is talented because he beat LD. My discussion here is more about the players conduct.

    Example. Hafiz Hashim is a talented player. But has really bad record againts LD, and etc.
    and being a talented player does not mean he is (still) a top world class player

    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    you didn't read in between the line or it wasn't clear

    its just one example to say choi hoi jin is talented against lin dan

    and here obviously there is nothing to measure

  13. #13
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    I would like to edit

    5) Makes playing badminton look effortless / easy. (When they Win)
    They may look extra weak / lazy when they lose

    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    The Talented Player.

    The discussion will look from the perspective of a 'match player', i.e. the conduct of a player on the badminton court and the manner the they 'play the game'.

    Please avoid the temptation to view the discussion from a 'coaching' point of view... since every student who 'learns how to hit a shuttle with little guidance / direction from a coach' would be considered a talented player. So the main focus of the discussion should be towards 'match play', match play, and match play.

    Any player which display a majority of such attributes and etc can be considered as a 'talented player'... Please do not hesitate to add any attribute you feel i'm missing out.

    1) A strong sense of the game (perhaps from a strong upbringing in a dense badminton environment)

    2) A varrying approach to matches (Pace & Style varrying skills)

    3) Match tempo control skills

    4) Cool under pressure aka big match player (irrespective of level)

    5) Makes playing badminton look effortless / easy.

    6) A 'shot maker'

    7) Match winning skills againts apparent 'higer level' players (more physical or 'senior' players)

    8) Low percentage for unforced errors

    9) The best of them in this category would of course have strong 'finishing moves' to end rallies abruptly.


    This is what I can come up with at the moment. Will add more when it shows up in my grey area.

    Cheers

  14. #14
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Yes Cheung,

    I agree about that. That is why I'm trying to differentiate Talented Player from World Class Player. Talent does not 100% translate to World Class Player. So many other Factor to take into account other than Talent.

    Case for example.
    DLCW. When he first showed up, he was called a 'Malaysia's New Foo Kok Keong' by Chen Hong. No disrespect to FKK, That guy was considered a 'bottom scraper' (some1 coined that term in BC, Cooler maybe). Clearly shows that DLCW was not considered a talented player by DLCW peer CH but look how far DLCW has come. Surely Talent was not the primary factor in this case.

    Hafiz Hashim however was very much the opposite. Tauted as the next big thing but now... only to be constantly used as a reference point by jug8man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    A talented player must be able to learn quickly.

    I think most of those attributes in post 2 can be taught and learnt. A talented person can pick these up ore quickly.

    A talented person can also work harder. You cannot simply play to an international level by playing twice a week.

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    Regular Member miksss's Avatar
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    Hayom Rumbaka and Jenn Gozali is very talented..

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    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    I cant say that CHJ is talented because he beat LD. My discussion here is more about the players conduct.

    Example. Hafiz Hashim is a talented player. But has really bad record againts LD, and etc.
    and being a talented player does not mean he is (still) a top world class player
    maybe i wasn't writing clear again

    chj is talented against lin dan

    but no talents by himself

    because he knows where and when to strike and vice versa

    thats how he cornered lin dan

    or maybe its late and i am just writing rubbish lol

  17. #17
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miksss View Post
    Hayom Rumbaka and Jenn Gozali is very talented..
    Hayom is very promising.

    Can you share more info about Jenn Gozali?

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