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  1. #35
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    I'd say it's a push. A drive would normally be played from midcourt (or from rearcourt for the ambitious).

  2. #36
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Dab = If a shot is hit very hard in a horizontal path (from the front of you)

    Quote Originally Posted by ixoye View Post
    Is it a drive or push when the shuttle is taken near the top of the net and sent to the baseline? The ones that go out if you hit it too hard?
    .
    Hi ixoye,

    Please be aware that we have different terminology used in different countries and/or used by different coaches.

    How you have described the shot is not clear enough. For it can be a;
    * Net Kill = If a shot is hit very hard in a downward path (from the front of you)
    * Side Drive = If a shot is hit very hard in a horizontal path (from the side of you)
    * Dab = If a shot is hit very hard in a horizontal path (from the front of you)

    The above shots are all done with our racket-head moving with acceleration (in speed); so they would not be Push Shots; since Push Shots are hit by the racket-head swung at constant velocity.

    When we think of pushing a shot, we pay more attention to the placement of the shot (place it to a location where our opponent finds hard to get there). As for the driving a shot, we think of not allowing our opponent to have time to react. Before he/she realises what is happening, the shuttlecock would have gone past vertical plane.
    .

  3. #37
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    Sorry, I don't understand this properly.

    1. If you're close to the net and you hit the shuttle very hard in a horizontal path, then it will go out. I think ixoye is talking about shots where the shuttle is taken at around net height (but not high enough to be able to play a kill) and sent low to the back of the court.

    2. It's almost impossible to play any reasonable shot with the racket moving at constant velocity. When you say "constant velocity" or "with acceleration", I think you just mean "slow" or "fast". (Maybe when you're coaching these shots, if the student hasn't studied too much physics, you can tell them to hit with constant velocity and they'll do the right thing.)

  4. #38
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Flick Service = A fast Service generated from a quick acceleration of the racket-head

    Quote Originally Posted by alexh View Post
    Sorry, I don't understand this properly.

    1. If you're close to the net and you hit the shuttle very hard in a horizontal path, then it will go out. I think ixoye is talking about shots where the shuttle is taken at around net height (but not high enough to be able to play a kill) and sent low to the back of the court.
    .
    An example of these fast and flat exchanges is demonstrated in our present day Mens Doubles matches; hit hard and flat just over the net, giving less time for opponents to react (and think).

    Quote Originally Posted by alexh View Post
    2. It's almost impossible to play any reasonable shot with the racket moving at constant velocity. When you say "constant velocity" or "with acceleration", I think you just mean "slow" or "fast". (Maybe when you're coaching these shots, if the student hasn't studied too much physics, you can tell them to hit with constant velocity and they'll do the right thing.)
    OK then, perhaps as close as with 'constant velocity' as possible.

    Earlier posts gave an idea of a Drive Service (Drive here implies the usage of the whole arm to drive the shuttlecock). Think of playing Squash; Drive the Squash ball hard and fast.

    But, there is another term used for a hard and fast hitting Service;
    * Flick Service = A fast Service generated from a quick acceleration of the racket-head created with the flick from our wrist
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 08-05-2010 at 08:43 AM.

  5. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexh View Post
    If you're close to the net and you hit the shuttle very hard in a horizontal path, then it will go out. I think ixoye is talking about shots where the shuttle is taken at around net height (but not high enough to be able to play a kill) and sent low to the back of the court.
    Yup, this is what I meant.

    Fast, flat exchanges are commonly done from around mid court, AFAIK. Do it from forecourt and the shuttle would go out I think.

  6. #40
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    The term "push" commonly causes confusion, because it's used both to describe a shot, and to describe a hitting technique. For instance, a backhand low serve uses a gentle "pushing action" to hit the shuttle.

    To make matters worse, it's hard to agree exactly which shots can be called pushes.

    Consider a return of doubles low serve, where the shuttle is hit flat towards a back corner. I would call this shot a "drive from the net" (or more concisely, "net drive"), but others (including the BE technique DVD!) would call it a "push to the rearcourt".

    Another return of this serve is to place the shuttle in the midcourt side tramlines, slightly beyond the service line. This is called a "push".

    You would expect that a "push shot" would use a "push hitting action". But this isn't always true: you can play a push from midcourt to midcourt, and the distance is sufficient that you probably need a (gentle) tap or rebound action to make the shuttle travel far enough.

    Personally, I consider pushes to be relatively flat shots, that fall somewhere between your softest option (play back to the net) and your hardest (play towards the rearcourt). Any push should land approximately in the front half of the midcourt (beyond the service line, but well in front of the doubles back service line).

    I wouldn't especially consider pushes of any kind to require "constant velocity" (constant over what time interval around contact?). They just need to be hit relatively gently.
    Last edited by Gollum; 08-05-2010 at 09:06 AM.

  7. #41
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow The difference between pushing and driving a shuttlecock

    Quote Originally Posted by ixoye View Post
    Yup, this is what I meant.

    Fast, flat exchanges are commonly done from around mid court, AFAIK. Do it from forecourt and the shuttle would go out I think.
    .
    I was thinking of giving examples for comparing the difference between Pushing and Driving a shuttlecock.

    Pushing is a gentler movement (almost at a constant velocity/movement); while Driving is hard and fast (like punching), an accelerated movement.

    Perhaps, this example may explain it clearer: I push you face- vs-I punch your face.
    .

  8. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    Perhaps, this example may explain it clearer: I push you face- vs-I punch your face.
    .
    Haha! Not clearer but it does help! Thanks!

    Thanks, too, Gollum for your explanation. "Net drive" sounds cool! I'll use that too!

  9. #43
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow It is important to explain what we are talking about

    Quote Originally Posted by Gollum View Post
    The term "push" commonly causes confusion, because it's used both to describe a shot, and to describe a hitting technique. For instance, a backhand low serve uses a gentle "pushing action" to hit the shuttle.

    To make matters worse, it's hard to agree exactly which shots can be called pushes.

    Consider a return of doubles low serve, where the shuttle is hit flat towards a back corner. I would call this shot a "drive from the net" (or more concisely, "net drive"), but others (including the BE technique DVD!) would call it a "push to the rearcourt".

    Another return of this serve is to place the shuttle in the midcourt side tramlines, slightly beyond the service line. This is called a "push".

    You would expect that a "push shot" would use a "push hitting action". But this isn't always true: you can play a push from midcourt to midcourt, and the distance is sufficient that you probably need a (gentle) tap or rebound action to make the shuttle travel far enough.

    Personally, I consider pushes to be relatively flat shots, that fall somewhere between your softest option (play back to the net) and your hardest (play towards the rearcourt). Any push should land approximately in the front half of the midcourt (beyond the service line, but well in front of the doubles back service line).

    I wouldn't especially consider pushes of any kind to require "constant velocity" (constant over what time interval around contact?). They just need to be hit relatively gently.
    .
    Agree.

    The different terminology used in different countries and/or used by different coaches may mean the same thing, but termed/coined differently. That's why we thought we should start this thread to describe what we mean (as commonly used from our special corners of the world).

    It is important to explain what we are talking about; whether we are talking about the;
    * Stroke = How a player executes a shot. It relates to our stroke production. It describes our body action, or the
    * Shot = How the shuttlecock travels. It describes the trajectory of the path taken by the shuttlecock.

    Let's talk more about terms in describing the Strokes (the hitting action). Basically, there are 4 actions (based on the movement for how we move/swing the racket-head), namely;
    * Hit = Movement with an acceleration with the swing of the racket-head
    * Soften/Absorb = Movement with a deceleration with the swing of the racket-head
    * Push = Movement with a constant speed with the swing of the racket-head
    * Block = Movement with no or little swing of the racket-head

    We also need to describe if the is a follow-through with our swing. There are so many, namely;
    * Swing it = With follow-through
    * Slap it = With follow-through
    * Smash it = With follow-through
    * Swipe it = With follow-through
    * Stoke it = With follow-through
    * Sweep it = With follow-through
    * Flick it = With follow-through
    * Hammer it = With follow-through
    * Bang it = With follow-through
    * Bash it = With follow-through
    * Push it = With follow-through
    * etc, etc, ......

    Then, we come across such terms as;
    * Tap it = With little or no follow-through
    * Block it = With little or no follow-through
    * Tip it = With little or no follow-through
    * Dab it = With little or no follow-through
    * etc. etc, ......

    We also come across such terms when we hit the side of the cork of the shuttlecock, namely;
    * Rotate it
    * Spin it
    * Slice it
    * Tumble it
    * Wobble it
    * etc. etc, ......

    From a post from keith.roche (Post #4), it was the first time I have heard of a "Dribble" at Badminton.

    But we are not to say whether we are wrong or right; but to say that we use different terms/words to describe how we hit/play a shot.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 08-05-2010 at 05:23 PM.

  10. #44
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    I was coached by someone who was a coach at Badminton Association of Maldives, and he attended his coaching programme or whatever at India. And being an Indian, I can say that, all coachs and players from India knows what a " dribble " is .
    It was new to me when I started, but now the term is familiar. ( All throughout the region )

    It would be something like this :

    NETSHOT
    1. Dribble
    2. Tap / Kill
    3. Net Drive
    4. Spinning Net shots


    Net shot is too huge of a term to describe the exact stroke. So, this is how it goes at the Indian subcontinent.
    Last edited by keith.roche; 08-06-2010 at 01:57 PM.

  11. #45
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow I am still not clear about the Dribble

    Quote Originally Posted by keith.roche View Post
    I was coached by someone who was a coach at Badminton Association of Maldives, and he attended his coaching programme or whatever at India. And being an Indian, I can say that, all coachs and players from India knows what a " dribble " is .
    It was new to me when I started, but now the term is familiar. ( All throughout the region )

    It would be something like this :

    NETSHOT
    1. Dribble
    2. Tap / Kill
    3. Net Drive
    4. Spinning Net shots


    Net shot is too huge of a term to describe the exact stroke. So, this is how it goes at the Indian subcontinent.
    .
    After reading various posts about the Net Tap/Kill, Drive and Spin shots (from other threads), I can get an understanding what these shots look like and how they are done. But for the Dribble, I am still not clear.

    Can you describe its shot trajectory and also how the stroke production is performed?
    .

  12. #46
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Boleh

    .
    Received message to include "Boleh".

    * Boleh = "Yes, we can" in Malaysian. It is yelled/cheered to players to encourage them to play better
    * Slice = A shot made when we hit the side of the cork of the shuttlecock. Slice Smash and Slice Dropshot are most common
    * Block = A shot hit by a racket-head swung with little or no movement at all. A Block Return of a Smash is most common
    * Push = A shot hit by a racket-head swung at constant velocity. A Doubles Low Service can be performed with a Push
    * XD Push Shot = Pushing the shuttlecock to the Side Tram Lines; directing it to fall between the front and the back players
    * Jia You = "Add Fuel" in Chinese (Mandarin). It is yelled/cheered to players to become stronger physically and mentally
    * Drive Return of Smash = A shot driven back quickly before our opponent is ready to intercept or to return it
    * Drive Service = A Service that is hit hard and fast, hoping to pass past a receiver before he/she is ready to intercept it
    * Deception = To fool and/or to wrong foot our opponent. Make him/her think we are executing this shot when we are playing another shot
    * Base Position = (For Singles Games) is the middle position between the net and the back line, and the middle position between the side lines
    * Defensive Clear = An overhead or underarm Clear executed to our opponent's Back Tram Lines; allowing us more time to return to our base position
    * Punch Clear = An overhead Clear executed to just clear over the highest reach that can be met by our opponent.
    * Spinning Netplay = A shot played near the net to our opponent's Fore Court, creating the shuttlecock to spin (rotating) over the net
    * Tumble = A shot played near the net to the our opponent's Fore Court, creating the shuttlecock to somersault once or more times over the net
    * Dropshot = A shot played from our overhead position to the Fore Court of our opponent's court
    * Dribble = Any shot played from ones' own forecourt to the opponents' forecourt with the shuttle passing in close proximity to the net tape.
    * Lift = A Clear which is played from an underarm stroke
    * Clear = Any shot played high (higher than the racket head held high) to our opponent
    * Service = The first stroke or shot played in a rally.
    .

  13. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    After reading various posts about the Net Tap/Kill, Drive and Spin shots (from other threads), I can get an understanding what these shots look like and how they are done. But for the Dribble, I am still not clear.

    Can you describe its shot trajectory and also how the stroke production is performed?
    .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ5zO0T9jgk

    Everything in that is a dribble... some are spinning ones... but all relates to the definition " Any shot played from ones' own forecourt to the opponents' forecourt with the shuttle passing in close proximity to the net tape. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by keith.roche View Post
    Everything in that is a dribble... some are spinning ones... but all relates to the definition " Any shot played from ones' own forecourt to the opponents' forecourt with the shuttle passing in close proximity to the net tape. "
    ...in other words, a net shot.

  15. #49
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    ........Amen...... :P

  16. #50
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Dribble = Hit the shuttlecock softly

    Quote Originally Posted by keith.roche View Post
    Everything in that is a dribble... some are spinning ones... but all relates to the definition " Any shot played from ones' own forecourt to the opponents' forecourt with the shuttle passing in close proximity to the net tape. "
    .
    They use Dribble in Baseball; where Dribble = To hit a baseball so that it bounces slowly.
    So, we have borrowed the term when we hit the shuttlecock softly.
    .

  17. #51
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Cut

    .
    Received message to include the "Cut".

    * Cut = Slice; A shot made when we hit the side of the cork of the shuttlecock.
    * Boleh = "Yes, we can" in Malaysian. It is yelled/cheered to players to encourage them to play better
    * Slice = A shot made when we hit the side of the cork of the shuttlecock. Slice Smash and Slice Dropshot are most common
    * Block = A shot hit by a racket-head swung with little or no movement at all. A Block Return of a Smash is most common
    * Push = A shot hit by a racket-head swung at constant velocity. A Doubles Low Service can be performed with a Push
    * XD Push Shot = Pushing the shuttlecock to the Side Tram Lines; directing it to fall between the front and the back players
    * Jia You = "Add Fuel" in Chinese (Mandarin). It is yelled/cheered to players to become stronger physically and mentally
    * Drive Return of Smash = A shot driven back quickly before our opponent is ready to intercept or to return it
    * Drive Service = A Service that is hit hard and fast, hoping to pass past a receiver before he/she is ready to intercept it
    * Deception = To fool and/or to wrong foot our opponent. Make him/her think we are executing this shot when we are playing another shot
    * Base Position = (For Singles Games) is the middle position between the net and the back line, and the middle position between the side lines
    * Defensive Clear = An overhead or underarm Clear executed to our opponent's Back Tram Lines; allowing us more time to return to our base position
    * Punch Clear = An overhead Clear executed to just clear over the highest reach that can be met by our opponent.
    * Spinning Netplay = A shot played near the net to our opponent's Fore Court, creating the shuttlecock to spin (rotating) over the net
    * Tumble = A shot played near the net to the our opponent's Fore Court, creating the shuttlecock to somersault once or more times over the net
    * Dropshot = A shot played from our overhead position to the Fore Court of our opponent's court
    * Dribble = Any shot played from ones' own forecourt to the opponents' forecourt with the shuttle passing in close proximity to the net tape.
    * Lift = A Clear which is played from an underarm stroke
    * Clear = Any shot played high (higher than the racket head held high) to our opponent
    * Service = The first stroke or shot played in a rally.
    .

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