Was Chen Jin cheating?

**pBmMalaysia** · 08-30-2010, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by taneepak

Can you please explain how, besides increasing the diameter of the feathers, a shuttlecock speed can be slowed without affecting its flight?
The diameter across the top of the feathers increases its drag as it becomes larger. Only by bending the feathers outwards, and as a result its diameter increases, can the same shuttle slow its speed because it now becomes a higher-drag projectile.
BTW, I do provide technical advice to professional players sometimes about shuttlecocks, as some are in the same business through family contacts.

BTW, TH did say that he lost to CJ because the latter played better. I don't recall TH saying anything about CJ manipulating the shuttle.

you are a player, taneepak i suppose and also a feather expert adviser

maybe in your group of players they are all friendly type

and you may know your trade in designing and giving expertise advise on feathers

but you don't know what happen is a court of war

when one player tries to outwit, outplay, outsmart their opponent

for a couple of canned drinks they will do anything to win including manipulating the shuttle.

so for your question i suggest you pm to those who understood what i posted

**logatech** · 08-30-2010, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by jug8man

Forgive my unintended rudeness. Please point out which question are you refering to.

1. Why no other players ever complained about CheJin manipulating shuttles during ant matches?
2. Can you give more details (or instructions) that how you manipulating a shuttle without being spotted by close examination of naked eyes?
Thanks

**jug8man** · 08-30-2010, 08:53 AM

He's the shuttle expert, racket expert, and many other expert.

He should be teaching us the exact a-z variety of methods to manipulating shuttles, no????

Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia

you are a player, taneepak i suppose and also a feather expert adviser

maybe in your group of players they are all friendly type

and you may know your trade in designing and giving expertise advise on feathers

but you don't know what happen is a court of war

when one player tries to outwit, outplay, outsmart their opponent

for a couple of canned drinks they will do anything to win including manipulating the shuttle.

so for your question i suggest you pm to those who understood what i posted

**HiddenPower** · 08-30-2010, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia

then i would assume your first line was for me...

if after bending the shuttle and still wants to play normal

why the hell bend it in the first place?

there are players (i am not saying its chen jin here) that do that

believe me and its called dirty tactic

boy, you are still new in baddy

If CJ didn't do it during the match, why do you bring it up?
I'm not new to badminton but never spend time to play dirty tricks.

**Anatolii** · 08-30-2010, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia

if you read my earlier posts

i didn't even want to mention anything about chen jin's manipulating shuttle

it is purely speculation even though the commentator mention something like that

it was until one member who was there and confirm that to us

of course if this member is someone who like to bad mouth i won't believe a word he said

unless you can find a reason this member kming is a bad mouth, is a liar then

i will take back what i have posted earlier. fair?

i am here not to discredit chen jin or up taufik's balls

*chuckles* i read your posts.

on a different note, i'm sorry if kming read my previous post and reckoned too that i was suggesting that his word was unreliable. i merely said that i wouldn't brand someone guilty unless i knew exactly what he did with the shuttle.

**jug8man** · 08-30-2010, 09:01 AM

OIC.

1. A good point. To catch a thief you need to be equally as sharp as a....... Besides, half the top players are his country men. Who else are capable to realize it save a few. I wonder what Gade thinks after he saw that complaint by TH. He looks perplexed on tv.... no? or is it just me again?

2. Since you asked s nicely. I know it is easy to crush the 'rings' around the feather base to make it faster. That's very easy to do unnoticed. Brushing the feathers to spread them i heard makes it slower.

I'm not an expert. PBm should be better to confirm that

Originally Posted by logatech

1. Why no other players ever complained about CheJin manipulating shuttles during ant matches?
2. Can you give more details (or instructions) that how you manipulating a shuttle without being spotted by close examination of naked eyes?
Thanks

**Thom_bad** · 08-30-2010, 09:03 AM

I'm quite surprised that some of us don't know that breaking the feathers can slow the spped of the shuttle......
In France it's very common to do that, and if the both players are okay ,we do it even during official matches !!

**pBmMalaysia** · 08-30-2010, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by logatech

You don't get the truth when someone swears that he is telling you the truth. You need the proof. Yes, these are just some thoughts. I can ask, is someone an idiot? I don't have proofs, but I believe that he is an idiot. You already have the conclusion before discussing it, and it seems to me that it will not bring up any health discussion in this way.

my man, be reasonable la

the first thing i check was this guy kming (he should be famous by now)

is a guy who likes to bad mouth, bla bla all those things? no, i don't think so.

i have a have a certain trust on certain posters including you

this is only a good baddy forum

not a court of law and there are no judges around

likewise if this guy kming needs to submit the proof of what he said

so do you when you ask me these questions.

**Anatolii** · 08-30-2010, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by jug8man

A poll would be interesting.

Not to decide anything or pass judgement...

But just to see / find out the forum members opinion on the whole matter. Just a suggestion.

it would be interesting indeed. voters will only have 'eye-witnesses' and the ambiguous (why would TH only complain about shuttle tampering when playing with CJ/ why should CJ only tamper the shuttle when playing with TH) as factors for deciding. the poll results will accordingly be misleading because they can and will be interpreted in many ways. so, interesting, yes if we want more unnecessary discussion on this increasingly pointless topic.

**extremenanopowe** · 08-30-2010, 09:08 AM

I like the CIA thingy. x-files opened. haha. Time to get csi to do post mortem.

A good incentive for shuttle makers to create untamperedable shuttles. lol.

**jug8man** · 08-30-2010, 09:10 AM

Haha, yes... It's not like the existing design is set in Titanium and protected by a Kaspersky tamper proof system.

Originally Posted by extremenanopowe

I like the CIA thingy. x-files opened. haha. Time to get csi to do post mortem.

A good incentive for shuttle makers to create untamperedable shuttles. lol.

**HiddenPower** · 08-30-2010, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Thom_bad

I'm quite surprised that some of us don't know that breaking the feathers can slow the spped of the shuttle......
In France it's very common to do that, and if the both players are okay ,we do it even during official matches !!

Slow the shuttle down by bending few tips isn't the cheating thing everyone talks about here (or is it?). A slower shuttle can only be advantage to TH (he is the slower one).

**jug8man** · 08-30-2010, 09:14 AM

Post 113 by Brice may suggest otherwise.

Unless i misread... slower shuttles are harder to 'kill' thus benefiting fitter rally retriever type players

Originally Posted by HiddenPower

Slow the shuttle down by bending few tips isn't the cheating thing everyone talks about here (or is it?). A slower shuttle can only be advantage to TH (he is the slower one).

**logatech** · 08-30-2010, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by jug8man

OIC.

1. A good point. To catch a thief you need to be equally as sharp as a....... Besides, half the top players are his country men. Who else are capable to realize it save a few. I wonder what Gade thinks after he saw that complaint by TH. He looks perplexed on tv.... no? or is it just me again?

2. Since you asked s nicely. I know it is easy to crush the 'rings' around the feather base to make it faster. That's very easy to do unnoticed. Brushing the feathers to spread them i heard makes it slower.

I'm not an expert. PBm should be better to confirm that

Thanks for your reply. Just making sure that I understand you, so your points are the following:

for question 1: you think that Taufik is better than other non-Chinese players, so only he can detect the manipulation. And some Chinese players may also know about this, but because they are from the same country, so they can't say anything about it during any matches with ChenJin.

for question2: Let's first do this. For a shuttle, if the shape, weight and distribution of weight of the shuttle are not changed, anything about flying of the shuttle will not change. If you agree with this, please read on.

You think crushing the shuttle head a little bit can speed up the shuttle, without being noticed. The weight of the shuttle head won't be changed, if you only crush it, but don;t tear anything off from it. Moreover, if the manipulation must not being noticed by naked eyes, the shape of the shuttle head can not be changed. Now the only thing you can do is to press the shuttle head really hard to change the distribution of the weight of the shuttle head. However, by doing this, you will leave marks on the shuttle head, which can be noticed by naked eyes. Therefore, you can not crush the shuttle head a little bit such that (1) the shuttle flies faster (2) naked eyes can not tell.

You also said that brushing the feather to spread evenly can slow down the shuttle. If this is to be done and the shuttle still looks the same as a new one, it will not affect the shuttle, since the weight, shape and distribution of weight of the shuttle are the same.

Please do reply, if you found any other more advanced techniques of manipulating shuttle without being noticed. Thanks.

**HiddenPower** · 08-30-2010, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by jug8man

Post 113 by Brice may suggest otherwise.

Unless i misread... slower shuttles are harder to 'kill' thus benefiting fitter rally retriever type players

A slower shuttle also give more time to TH to move.

**extremenanopowe** · 08-30-2010, 09:37 AM

Its time for a new technology to check on the shuttle flight speed and condition. Proactive shuttle monitoring technology. And proactive player cheating technology or cheeky monitoring technology.

Any geeks out there writing open source programs yet? Extend it to nagios please. Am sure the technology will be available soon. And of course, player weight monitoring technology. lol.

**Contactjj** · 08-30-2010, 09:38 AM

Maybe it is just me. It sounds more like a smearing campaign: cannot win on the court, win it somewhere else.

Regarding the evidence, I will trust the officials on the court rather than taking the word from someone self-claimed 'unbiased and neutral' bystander.

The funny thing is how could only one of the two players benefit from such tactic? They did play the same 'not-so-perfect' shuttle, didn't they? It is laughable to speculate a great legend like TH would fall to 'lowly' CJ because 'not-so-perfect' shuttles.

By the way, what is a 'perfect shuttle'?