Was Chen Jin cheating?

**Yoppy** · 08-30-2010, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by deca2000

Suppose we switch the position of Chen Jin and Taufik. Suppose it were Chen Jin who complained about Taufik manipulating the shuttle, showed two shuttles to the judges, etc., did exactly the same as what Taufik did, what would be your reaction? Just be honest.

What does that suppose to mean???

Look guys, Im sure TH would not make such a lame excuse, nor TH fans. If this is not the case, please point me where exactly prior to now. This thread has NOTHING to do with TH. TH never mentioned it after the match, and Im sure he accept the lost as a grown man and so did all TH fans around the world. Making this thread sounds like TH fans complaining about CJ cheating is just simply WRONG!!!

This thread is about DID CJ CHEAT???? And the answer is WE DONT KNOW. We can talk about it for 1000 years and still dont know the answer, its only CJ himself knows.

The thread should ask, DID CJ TAMPERED THE SHUTTLE?? And the answer to that is likely to be YES. Then you can ask further question, DID TH HAS THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN TO REF? YES, HE HAD. Then, DID THE REF MAKE RIGHT DECISION? YES HE DID.

**Bbn** · 08-30-2010, 06:33 PM

This shuttle manipulation thing reminds me of the "S" service debacle back in the early 80s.Of course the IBF banned it.

If sneaky manipulation of shuttles is so effective it is time to let BWF officials know about it so there can be no unfair advantage.

I think eventually unlike the S problem, this issue may become a non-issue.

As for Taufik's involvement he has been adamant about CJ manipulating the shuttle esp in a SS series where he kept complaining to the officials even after the match was over,if necessary I can show the clip to prove it,just as I can show clips of how CJ appears to "manipulate" the shuttle when playing Taufik.. Then it is no longer speculation or hearsay it is a visual record, just like catching a criminal on cctv.
Give me some though to produce the clips.

**logatech** · 08-30-2010, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Yoppy

What does that suppose to mean???

Look guys, Im sure TH would not make such a lame excuse, nor TH fans. If this is not the case, please point me where exactly prior to now. This thread has NOTHING to do with TH. TH never mentioned it after the match, and Im sure he accept the lost as a grown man and so did all TH fans around the world. Making this thread sounds like TH fans complaining about CJ cheating is just simply WRONG!!!

This thread is about DID CJ CHEAT???? And the answer is WE DONT KNOW. We can talk about it for 1000 years and still dont know the answer, its only CJ himself knows.

The thread should ask, DID CJ TAMPERED THE SHUTTLE?? And the answer to that is likely to be YES. Then you can ask further question, DID TH HAS THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN TO REF? YES, HE HAD. Then, DID THE REF MAKE RIGHT DECISION? YES HE DID.

I guess whether you agree or not, some posts in this thread do sound like Taufik fans complaining about CJ cheating. You are right that Taufik has nothing to be blamed. He did not mention that ChenJin manipulated the shuttle after the game, which shows in some sense that this whole shuttle thing is one of Taufik's tactics.

You said that the question is "DID CJ CHEAT???? And the answer is WE DONT KNOW". What does this suggest? Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. ChenJin is innocent, unless you have valid proofs. If you want to discuss whether ChenJin cheated or not, you need to have some evidences to back you up. Otherwise, the question itself is a pointless statement that is not fair to ChenJin, and the intention of posing such a question without any solid evidences is very suspicious to me.

**logatech** · 08-30-2010, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bbn

This shuttle manipulation thing reminds me of the "S" service debacle back in the early 80s.Of course the IBF banned it.

If sneaky manipulation of shuttles is so effective it is time to let BWF officials know about it so there can be no unfair advantage.

I think eventually unlike the S problem, this issue may become a non-issue.

As for Taufik's involvement he has been adamant about CJ manipulating the shuttle esp in a SS series where he kept complaining to the officials even after the match was over,if necessary I can show the clip to prove it,just as I can show clips of how CJ appears to "manipulate" the shuttle when playing Taufik.. Then it is no longer speculation or hearsay it is a visual record, just like catching a criminal on cctv.
Give me some though to produce the clips.

I guess if Taufik is so confident that ChenJin does cheat when playing against him, then an easy thing to do is to ask his coach to take a camcorder to record ChenJin doing it. This is easy to do and may be presented to the IBF as evidence against ChenJin after the match. But Taufik did not do that after his numerous complaints against ChenJin on different occasions.

**Yoppy** · 08-30-2010, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by logatech

I guess whether you agree or not, some posts in this thread do sound like Taufik fans complaining about CJ cheating. You are right that Taufik has nothing to be blamed. He did not mention that ChenJin manipulated the shuttle after the game, which shows in some sense that this whole shuttle thing is one of Taufik's tactics.

You said that the question is "DID CJ CHEAT???? And the answer is WE DONT KNOW". What does this suggest? Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. ChenJin is innocent, unless you have valid proofs. If you want to discuss whether ChenJin cheated or not, you need to have some evidences to back you up. Otherwise, the question itself is a pointless statement that is not fair to ChenJin, and the intention of posing such a question without any solid evidences is very suspicious to me.

The proof is CJ tampered the shuttle, no doubt about it, im sure if the video become available then i can show it to you. But even that, i would not say CJ cheated, we should draw a line between whether CJ was cheating and CJ tampering the shuttle, shouldn't we?

Look i did not start this thread, and as a TH fan i should be suspisious about the motive of this thread. Once again this thread is about DID CJ CHEAT?

Dont ask me why, ask the thread starter.

If you want to ask if its TH tactics, then you should start a new thread

**Yoppy** · 08-30-2010, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by logatech

I guess if Taufik is so confident that ChenJin does cheat when playing against him, then an easy thing to do is to ask his coach to take a camcorder to record ChenJin doing it. This is easy to do and may be presented to the IBF as evidence against ChenJin after the match. But Taufik did not do that after his numerous complaints against ChenJin on different occasions.

Then what?? you think BWF will revoke CJ title????

**logatech** · 08-30-2010, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Yoppy

The proof is CJ tampered the shuttle, no doubt about it, im sure if the video become available then i can show it to you. But even that, i would not say CJ cheated, we should draw a line between whether CJ was cheating and CJ tampering the shuttle, shouldn't we?

Look i did not start this thread, and as a TH fan i should be suspisious about the motive of this thread. Once again this thread is about DID CJ CHEAT?

Dont ask me why, ask the thread starter.

If you want to ask if its TH tactics, then you should start a new thread

Of course, it is not personal, just my opinions. I apologize if you found my words are offensive. Now, my question is, if you have no doubt that ChenJin tampered the shuttle, can you please kindly explain that why the referees did not notice when they closely examine two shuttles (one new, one "tampered" by ChenJin? Thanks.

**logatech** · 08-30-2010, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Yoppy

Then what?? you think BWF will revoke CJ title????

Of course, this video tape plus Taufik's testimonies that this behavior affected his play.

**pBmMalaysia** · 08-30-2010, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bbn

So far as far as the players are concerned and based on the history and record of the players I agree with Cheung totally.

And don't forget that Cheung is also a certified coach like many many others here.

I would still like to learn how to manipulate a shuttle undetected, maybe someone could demo it on youtube.

then I will deliver it by hand to the BWF Also then I earn some extra pocket money by winning lots of bets "short cut" way. That will be using know how to make some pocket money.

if i give it to you make sure you are living somewhere near to bwf office

otherwise balance the pocket money with your expenses

check your pm

**hador7** · 08-30-2010, 07:29 PM

The only person cheating here was Taufik. He did so to rest since it's obvious that his physical conditioning is not on par with Chen Jin's. In addition, this tactic was also used to break Chen Jin's concentration. That is the definition of cheating.

And it's sad because it tainted Chen Jin's victory. Taufik has no sense of honour whatsoever. And people are so wowed by his past accomplishments that they give him the benefit of the doubt whenever he goes into his little fits as he did in this final.

I bet you if the roles were reversed, and it was Chen Jin criticizing Taufik for manipulating the shuttle, the thread would still be titled "Did Chen Jin cheat." It's sad that there is so much disdain against the Chinese players that people would do and say anything to taint their success.

**Bbn** · 08-30-2010, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia

if i give it to you make sure you are living somewhere near to bwf office

otherwise balance the pocket money with your expenses

check your pm

I go to Cheras complex quite often.

***Cheung*** · 08-30-2010, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Yoppy

The proof is CJ tampered the shuttle, no doubt about it, im sure if the video become available then i can show it to you. But even that, i would not say CJ cheated, we should draw a line between whether CJ was cheating and CJ tampering the shuttle, shouldn't we?

Look i did not start this thread, and as a TH fan i should be suspisious about the motive of this thread. Once again this thread is about DID CJ CHEAT?

Dont ask me why, ask the thread starter.

If you want to ask if its TH tactics, then you should start a new thread

I closed that thread already

**Bbn** · 08-30-2010, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia

if i give it to you make sure you are living somewhere near to bwf office

otherwise balance the pocket money with your expenses

check your pm

Nothing in my Pm.

Hey bets start at hundreds of ringgit in Old Klang road.

The again maybe those guys are bigger cheating experts than me already. Also manipulating the shuttle cannot help
me as my skill level is below that of those betting heavily.

***Cheung*** · 08-30-2010, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by hador7

The only person cheating here was Taufik. He did so to rest since it's obvious that his physical conditioning is not on par with Chen Jin's. In addition, this tactic was also used to break Chen Jin's concentration. That is the definition of cheating.

And it's sad because it tainted Chen Jin's victory. Taufik has no sense of honour whatsoever. And people are so wowed by his past accomplishments that they give him the benefit of the doubt whenever he goes into his little fits as he did in this final.

I bet you if the roles were reversed, and it was Chen Jin criticizing Taufik for manipulating the shuttle, the thread would still be titled "Did Chen Jin cheat." It's sad that there is so much disdain against the Chinese players that people would do and say anything to taint their success.

That's the other explanation. It's all mind games on court.

One thing for sure, Taufik's physical condition is not as good as before. I think it's hard for him to go through so many matches and be on form in the final.

**deca2000** · 08-30-2010, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Yoppy

What does that suppose to mean???

Look guys, Im sure TH would not make such a lame excuse, nor TH fans. If this is not the case, please point me where exactly prior to now. This thread has NOTHING to do with TH. TH never mentioned it after the match, and Im sure he accept the lost as a grown man and so did all TH fans around the world. Making this thread sounds like TH fans complaining about CJ cheating is just simply WRONG!!!

This thread is about DID CJ CHEAT???? And the answer is WE DONT KNOW. We can talk about it for 1000 years and still dont know the answer, its only CJ himself knows.

The thread should ask, DID CJ TAMPERED THE SHUTTLE?? And the answer to that is likely to be YES. Then you can ask further question, DID TH HAS THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN TO REF? YES, HE HAD. Then, DID THE REF MAKE RIGHT DECISION? YES HE DID.

The question is for Jug8man, who was so furious and emotional about the whole thing. It's a simple question: if in the whole incident, the positions of Chen Jin and Taufik exchanged, would he still be so furious?

This thread is about whether Chen Jin manipulated the shuttle. Since Taufik made the accusation on the court, you tell me this thread has nothing to do with Taufik?

BTW, tamper means " To interfere in a harmful manner". Do you think it is fair in the first place to ask the question "Did CJ tamper the shuttle??" without any evidence to backup? And on what bases did you claim "the answer is likely to be YES"?

**logatech** · 08-30-2010, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cheung

That's the other explanation. It's all mind games on court.

One thing for sure, Taufik's physical condition is not as good as before. I think it's hard for him to go through so many matches and be on form in the final.

Yep, mind games. Just like a lot of unnecessary things sometimes, refuse to get a new shuttle, ask to wipe the floor, tie shoe laces, argue with the referee, etc. Shuttles are fine, floor is clean, shoe laces are tight and referees make the correct call, but they want to do it for whatever reasons.

**Bbn** · 08-30-2010, 07:55 PM

[QUOTE=Yoppy;1512735]The proof is CJ tampered the shuttle, no doubt about it, im sure if the video become available then i can show it to you. But even that, i would not say CJ cheated, we should draw a line between whether CJ was cheating and CJ tampering the shuttle, shouldn't we?

Look i did not start this thread, and as a TH fan i should be suspisious about the motive of this thread. Once again this thread is about DID CJ CHEAT?

Cj tampered with the shuttle of course,it is clearly visible on video and clearly visible to Taufik and CJ knows that it is going to upset him, just like Bao or XXZ did years ago.Taufik made a lot of noise on Court,but nothing outside it.
Maybe Taufik is too nice a guy, I want to help him and complain to the BWF on his behalf ,unless as many suspect
his behaviour on Court or CJ's are just mind games.
Nevertheless I will post videos on all these events in time. PBm is going to give me some evidence on how to manipulate the shuttle, after I get it I will post it on youtube and copy it to the BWF and embarass them with their ignorance.
Maybe the BWF people will laugh in my face, never mind then I will spend the rest of my days making money playing for money with people who dont "know anything about badminton".
Don't forget the IBF took the S service issue very seriously and banned it after EVERYONE complained.