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  1. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogensaebel View Post
    i'm not so sure about what exactly happened...but sort of Chen Jin broke the stutle to slow it down like commentators said...od did it happened out of intention?but Chen Jin was also solid today...
    what do u guys think?
    Indeed, he made it since the first point of the game !! I was in the stadium and was sitting behind him in the firts set and i saw it directly. I say it to my girlfriend after a few point. Between points he trun himself and broke the shuttle. Altough i think he was really the stronger on the court, it disappointed me a little.

    And what disapointed me was the umpire. Because Taufik complained about it in the first game but the umpire said nothing. It was only in the second game after taufik show him an old shuttle that the umpire began to keep an eye on Chen jin until he made him a comment. From that point Chen jin stopped broking whan we saw a better taufik on court.

    I repeated, for me Chen jin was the stronger on court but what it would have been if he didn't do that since the begining?

    Another amazing think about chen jin. i was sitted over LYB and during the WS final, chen jin came to sit beside him. Juste right after the match of the girls, LYB began to explain some thing to chen jin. It seems that he give him some advice about the game and it laste something about 10 or 15 minutes (with a break during the girl's ceremony). And Chen jin was just saying yes with his head without speaking. Sacred LYB

  2. #121
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    Unhappy not delving into this would mean one more person believing they have good reasons to

    be 'ashamed to be a Chinese' or in short, anti-chinese. (besides, jug8 you have so proudly phrased such an opinion as part of a topic title, what could have been your intention if not trying to invite discussion and/or hearty agreement?

    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    A quick reply to your question. Let's not delve too deep into this.

    To me, Chen Jin slowing the shuttles (via manipulation) is like selling Tainted Milk. Sound familiar? When the actions of a few can make a whole country look bad.
    then perhaps you have formed your opinion rather strongly and inappropriately. even if Chen Jin was guilty of being playing cheat, then you can only say that he is a shame to the Chinese name. he should not be the (or even a) reason you should feel ashamed being a Chinese. if it's easier to underline my point should i ask: of which nationality would you be prouder to be, then? one in which every one of their citizens are comparatively faultless and saint-like.

  3. #122
    Regular Member robin7's Avatar
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    What I observed was that CJ swipped his sweat onto the feather of the shuttlecock to make heavier like what he did against Taufik @ Macau Open 2007.

    It's undeniable that CJ was a better player yesterday. With or without the manipulation of the shuttlecock, Taufik couldn't beat him.

    A breakthru for CJ as this is the only major title that CJ won by his own effort.

  4. #123
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    I admit I sometimes lack the articulateness to word things the best I can.

    Consider it 'in the heat of the moment' with my blood pumping very heavily.

    The title was the least of my concern. Perhaps you have worded it much better.

    Thank you for understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anatolii View Post
    be 'ashamed to be a Chinese' or in short, anti-chinese. (besides, jug8 you have so proudly phrased such an opinion as part of a topic title, what could have been your intention if not trying to invite discussion and/or hearty agreement?


    then perhaps you have formed your opinion rather strongly and inappropriately. even if Chen Jin was guilty of being playing cheat, then you can only say that he is a shame to the Chinese name. he should not be the (or even a) reason you should feel ashamed being a Chinese. if it's easier to underline my point should i ask: of which nationality would you be prouder to be, then? one in which every one of their citizens are comparatively faultless and saint-like.

  5. #124
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    I admire the subtle sting in your words. Something I have no talent / ability for.

    Lest I Misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by robin7 View Post
    What I observed was that CJ swipped his sweat onto the feather of the shuttlecock to make heavier like what he did against Taufik @ Macau Open 2007.

    It's undeniable that CJ was a better player yesterday. With or without the manipulation of the shuttlecock, Taufik couldn't beat him.

    A breakthru for CJ as this is the only major title that CJ won by his own effort.

  6. #125
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Very interesting observation courtside.

    Perhaps I am not as alone as I once thought. I was rooting both ways till I realized in the second set. Then I got disappointed as well

    Quote Originally Posted by kming View Post
    Indeed, he made it since the first point of the game !! I was in the stadium and was sitting behind him in the firts set and i saw it directly. I say it to my girlfriend after a few point. Between points he trun himself and broke the shuttle. Altough i think he was really the stronger on the court, it disappointed me a little.

    And what disapointed me was the umpire. Because Taufik complained about it in the first game but the umpire said nothing. It was only in the second game after taufik show him an old shuttle that the umpire began to keep an eye on Chen jin until he made him a comment. From that point Chen jin stopped broking whan we saw a better taufik on court.

    I repeated, for me Chen jin was the stronger on court but what it would have been if he didn't do that since the begining?

    Another amazing think about chen jin. i was sitted over LYB and during the WS final, chen jin came to sit beside him. Juste right after the match of the girls, LYB began to explain some thing to chen jin. It seems that he give him some advice about the game and it laste something about 10 or 15 minutes (with a break during the girl's ceremony). And Chen jin was just saying yes with his head without speaking. Sacred LYB

  7. #126
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    As I have said earlier, you cannot manipulate a shuttlecock to either slow or speed it up without increasing or reducing its diameter, respectively. To do this you must bend the tops of the feathers either inwards (to increase speed from a smaller diameter) or outwards (to reduce its speed becasue of a larger diameter). To do this without shuttle wobble you must bend all the feathers uniformly in both its bend-point from the feather tips and its angles either inwards or outwards. This takes time and can be seen as daylight robbery or stupidity in full view of everyone.
    Umpires can examine a shuttle for any bends and they are easy to spot and also feel as the feathers have lost rigidity.
    So I can confidently say with some authority that CJ did not manipulate to slow down the shuttle. BTW, I design feather shuttlecocks and diameters of both feathers and base are important design parameters besides weight and rotational speed in deciding a shuttlecock's speed.
    However, that is not to say that mind games are not used during games. They often are. Examples like pretending to manipulate a shuttle to upset an opponent by making him suspicious or challenging an opponent by complaining about shuttle manipulation, etc.

  8. #127
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    To be honest, i'm not a specialist of shuttelcock or what he did exactly and in wihch purpose.
    But i confirm that Chen jin made some strange manipulation with the shuttlecock's when he turned back between points. And i saw it before Taufik complained just like i said before.

    And i also confirm that from the point the umpire said something he stoppped because i was focus on him between each point.

    But i also confirmed that the umpire seems very confused when he compares the shuttles. But after that he was very focused on Chen jin until he asked him to see the shuttle.

    The strange thing is that Taufik played better after that. Was it onlys psycholigical ?

  9. #128
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    TH played marginally better afterwards because he had a long break and whole thing put CJ off.

  10. #129
    Regular Member nokh88's Avatar
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    All things being equal, CJ was the better player in the final. There is no denying about this. Period.

    But based on kming's comments, where he was at courtside and witnessed CJ did something to the shuttle to his advantage. This is not good. If he really did that, it's worse than other forms of ungentleman tactics, apart from the one Brice described.

    And for Taufik, I think if he were to lose, let it be fair and square. He also complained about this when they last met and since he has been losing so frequent lately to other players too, why must he picked Chen Jin?

  11. #130
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaarix View Post
    Oh not this again... Not even a World Championship Silver medal is good enough for you. Well, I think that says it all.
    off topic:
    ..My friend, Taufik already has a WC Gold medal. That is already good enough for me. Why must i be jumping for joy with another medal?..
    Quote Originally Posted by pejantan View Post
    ...i dont know what kind of manipulation with the shuttle, but if u remembered, last year CJ did the same and TH complaining to the referee too. I ve an opinion bout what CJ did, if u watch his left hand, especially his finger, he usually hold using 3 finger deep inside the shuttle and the tumb outside, he hold realy tight...do u know what player that hold the shuttle in that way??? can u imagine how width that 3 finger of a big man like CJ...so ithink that make the shuttle slower and tend to be rather unbalance...maybe it fit CJ style but TH dislike it....that s is TH right to argue to the referee, but its up to the referee to make the decision
    ...
    ..i certainly remember watching a video of CJ doing the same as described in bold above, as if trying to manipulate the stem/feathers by pressing. But i don't recall him doing it every single time.
    - But are you sure he never did the same against other players? If he's done it before, then why aren't there complaints from other players about him tampering the shuttle?
    - From watching his match vs. Taufik, the way he held the shuttle (with 3 fingers holding the inside of the feathers) prior to the serve isn't any different from the way he held the shuttle in his match against Ville Lang (in one of the earlier rounds). See video below, at 2:06.
    - Also, i heard from the commentator, at 2:24 in video below, apparently there was a bit of a difference in the air draft/speed from one side of the court to the other. Perhaps if the complaint is all about shuttle speed, maybe it's somewhat related to the air draft.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Ctepkdmo4

    Off topic:
    About Chen Jin benefiting from Xia Xuanze's tutelage, i think yes to a certain point. If i recall, XXZ became one of CHN's coaching staff after 2007. And CJ had beaten Taufik in 2007 without XXZ guidance. IMO, CJ's performance is as good as his opponent's performance, which in this case, Taufik's level of play in comparison to CJ is not the same.
    Last edited by ctjcad; 08-30-2010 at 05:26 AM.

  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..
    - Also, i heard from the commentator, at 2:24 in video below, pparently there was a bit of a difference in the air draft/speed from one side of the court to the other. Perhaps if the complaint is all about shuttle speed, maybe it's somewhat related to the air draft.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Ctepkdmo4
    From what i see and understand, Taufi was in the rapid side in the second game (when he complained the most).

    Apart from that Chen jin was really the best on court yesterday. Alos in his body language has Gill Clarck used to say.

  13. #132
    Regular Member phaarix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    off topic:
    ..My friend, Taufik already has a WC Gold medal. That is already good enough for me. Why must i be jumping for joy with another medal?
    Hey come on now, I didn't say anything like that .

  14. #133
    Regular Member demolidor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supernova View Post
    It is true that umpires(and service judges) from a coutry where badminton is not the strongest sport usually get more chances to judge in semi-finals/finals of import world events. It simply because their players are less likely able to reach the final rounds.
    So Yes, Canada, USA.... do produce world-class umpires

    And I do believe any BWF officials you see in this world championships and pasts can judge better than you.
    If only you knew some insider stories

    And what I meant by world class in Canada is: how often do you see these world class umpires over there? I think I can say Europe has the largest number of international tournaments played (in an area the same size as Canada) ...
    Last edited by demolidor; 08-30-2010 at 05:51 AM.

  15. #134
    Regular Member Thom_bad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kming View Post
    To be honest, i'm not a specialist of shuttelcock or what he did exactly and in wihch purpose.
    But i confirm that Chen jin made some strange manipulation with the shuttlecock's when he turned back between points. And i saw it before Taufik complained just like i said before.

    And i also confirm that from the point the umpire said something he stoppped because i was focus on him between each point.
    when you break the end of the feathers (1 out of 4, or 1 out of 2), it slows the speed of the shuttle

  16. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thom_bad View Post
    when you break the end of the feathers (1 out of 4, or 1 out of 2), it slows the speed of the shuttle
    Of course, but it can be easily spotted, and should have been by the umpire

  17. #136
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kming View Post
    To be honest, i'm not a specialist of shuttelcock or what he did exactly and in wihch purpose.
    But i confirm that Chen jin made some strange manipulation with the shuttlecock's when he turned back between points. And i saw it before Taufik complained just like i said before.

    And i also confirm that from the point the umpire said something he stoppped because i was focus on him between each point.

    But i also confirmed that the umpire seems very confused when he compares the shuttles. But after that he was very focused on Chen jin until he asked him to see the shuttle.

    The strange thing is that Taufik played better after that. Was it onlys psycholigical ?
    i have read your earlier post

    i do believe you

    and i think so are most of the readers.

    readers what say you all?

    you were there and i can't find a reason why you would make up such a story

    chen jin then probably was manipulating the shuttle's speed for his own benefit

    or to disturb taufik's tempo.

    as for taufik's playing turned to better after shuttle dispute,

    i think a few members here has reasoned as a good gasp of air for taufik

    but what about chen jin, he too had the same good gasp of air.

    as for taneepak claiming the only way to slow down or speed up a shuttle is to bend the feathers one by one

    inwards or outwards and no other way?

    with such a reason i can only find it coming from by an amateur

    maybe designing and manipulating are totally 2 different things.

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