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  1. #137
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokh88 View Post
    All things being equal, CJ was the better player in the final. There is no denying about this. Period.

    But based on kming's comments, where he was at courtside and witnessed CJ did something to the shuttle to his advantage. This is not good. If he really did that, it's worse than other forms of ungentleman tactics, apart from the one Brice described.

    And for Taufik, I think if he were to lose, let it be fair and square. He also complained about this when they last met and since he has been losing so frequent lately to other players too, why must he picked Chen Jin?
    you sure have a point here

    between chen jin and taufik if i were to bet on money i would bet on chen jin

    even though i like taufik to win

    yes, for a member like kming to be there, with a 'live' report there must be something cooking

    and as for this manipulating of shuttle

    it sure works and i didn't really hint all earlier.

    i am sure many members are smiling as they know what i am talking about...lol

  2. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thom_bad View Post
    when you break the end of the feathers (1 out of 4, or 1 out of 2), it slows the speed of the shuttle
    It depends which side you bend the tips of the feathers. If inwards the diameter becomes smaller and the speed increases. The reverse applies if bent outwards. Bending only 1 out of 4 feathers or 1 out of 2 feathers will make the rotation of the shuttle less than ideal and affects playability. Bending all the feathers is better but it requires a fine touch, and even that the rigidity of the shuttle is adversely affected.

    Of course all the above have huge tell tale signs and the cheating player will be caught red-handed.

  3. #139
    Regular Member nokh88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    you sure have a point here

    between chen jin and taufik if i were to bet on money i would bet on chen jin

    even though i like taufik to win

    yes, for a member like kming to be there, with a 'live' report there must be something cooking

    and as for this manipulating of shuttle

    it sure works and i didn't really hint all earlier
    .

    i am sure many members are smiling as they know what i am talking about...lol
    I was also rooting for Taufik but the fact is that CJ was the favourite even before the match and we have more or less knew the result.
    As for the red font, we all know...'cos we all play badminton.

  4. #140
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    What i saw on the match, the ref was later (not immidiately) warned CJ about something after TH complained. As a ref, i think he agreed with TH but blaming CJ immidiately would attract more consequenses as its clearly illegal in tampering the shuttle, should CJ get points deduction? So the ref choosed to ignore the complain then warned CJ later on. I think its a wise decision.

    I would not accuse CJ of doing this intentionally, IMO maybe he did it without thinking too much at that time, only CJ himself can answer it. As for TH, i also dont think that its his tactic in delaying or playing psycic game, any player playing in WC final would complaint if you see your opponent tampering with the shuttle. Plus, no TH fan would complain about it (you can check on TH thread), so please dont take this thread as if TH and TH fans are accusing CJ cheating.

    No fuss about it, this things happen its part of the game. End of story.
    Last edited by Yoppy; 08-30-2010 at 07:35 AM.

  5. #141
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    you sure have a point here

    between chen jin and taufik if i were to bet on money i would bet on chen jin

    even though i like taufik to win

    yes, for a member like kming to be there, with a 'live' report there must be something cooking

    and as for this manipulating of shuttle

    it sure works and i didn't really hint all earlier.

    i am sure many members are smiling as they know what i am talking about...lol
    i have played with people who abuse the shuttle. Eg. if they think it is too fast just insert the grip into the ring of feathers/threads and twist it round to increase the circumference. Or deliberately ruffle the feathers with the racquet etc etc.
    But manipulating the shuttle as implied may be done at pro level and may be difficult to detect.

    Watck LYBs behaviour in the 1990 AE vs Park and Kim, the shuttle became too fast because of the heat and he kept on changing the shuttle as it kept overshooting the baseline.Even LYB is unaware of the tactic of sneakingly manipulating the shuttle.
    I notice that this apparent"manipulation" of the shuttle occurs only when Chen Jin plays Taufik, in other games he doesn't give much attention to the shuttle.this subject is not new, has been brought for years in BC by Taufik fans.
    If international players are doing all these why hasn't an official complaint been lodged with the BWF so that officials can look out for this event. After all an event such as the World's is on TV and can be captured by camera from many angles.Surely it is a serious matter bringing disrepute to the sport. Other than the usual complaints from Ina fans and some Msian ones, have other countries faced such problems?

  6. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post

    as for taneepak claiming the only way to slow down or speed up a shuttle is to bend the feathers one by one

    inwards or outwards and no other way?

    with such a reason i can only find it coming from by an amateur

    maybe designing and manipulating are totally 2 different things.
    Can you please explain how, besides increasing the diameter of the feathers, a shuttlecock speed can be slowed without affecting its flight?
    The diameter across the top of the feathers increases its drag as it becomes larger. Only by bending the feathers outwards, and as a result its diameter increases, can the same shuttle slow its speed because it now becomes a higher-drag projectile.
    BTW, I do provide technical advice to professional players sometimes about shuttlecocks, as some are in the same business through family contacts.

    BTW, TH did say that he lost to CJ because the latter played better. I don't recall TH saying anything about CJ manipulating the shuttle.

  7. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    you sure have a point here

    between chen jin and taufik if i were to bet on money i would bet on chen jin

    even though i like taufik to win

    yes, for a member like kming to be there, with a 'live' report there must be something cooking

    and as for this manipulating of shuttle

    it sure works and i didn't really hint all earlier.

    i am sure many members are smiling as they know what i am talking about...lol
    to be honest i have no clue what you're trying to mean, but never mind.

    shuttlecock tampering seems serious enough an offense and if CJ did something like that, it's quite unbelievable that no officials ever caught him at it or could find evidence of his tampering.

    and if i was there seeing CJ do something to the shuttle, i still can't be in a hurry to affirm that Yes, CJ's a lowly character for resorting to lowly measures in order to win, because after all i only saw him do what i am now describing as "a strange manipulation" to the shuttle.

    and for most of us who claim to be very objective about the players, we have even less need to jump to conclusions so easily and form poor opinions about others without strong evidence. what good does it do us to be opinionated? so far, i only see people getting worked up (and i get worked up reading all the comments of these 'worked-up' people) over what are really just speculations. of course, undeniably there are the ones who by nature enjoy bad-mouthing, but we don't really want to talk to these people, do we?
    Last edited by Anatolii; 08-30-2010 at 08:16 AM.

  8. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    It depends which side you bend the tips of the feathers. If inwards the diameter becomes smaller and the speed increases. The reverse applies if bent outwards. Bending only 1 out of 4 feathers or 1 out of 2 feathers will make the rotation of the shuttle less than ideal and affects playability. Bending all the feathers is better but it requires a fine touch, and even that the rigidity of the shuttle is adversely affected.

    Of course all the above have huge tell tale signs and the cheating player will be caught red-handed.
    I've only read part of the thread but I agree with taneepak. Any manipulation of the shuttle on the court with one hand would be very hard to control. The shuttle would twist a lot afterwards.

    I would be more inclined to think it's clever mind games by CJ to disrupt Taufik's rhythm. What I would do is to 'pretend' to manipulate the shuttle, then put more energy into the rally to win the point. Seeds of doubt get sown into Taufik's mind and then hopefully mistakes start flowing.

    The referee having a word with CJ may only be 'stop messing around'.


    Mindgames are also played by the crowd - cheering at lost points, disruption during the serve etc. - all to disrupt players concentration.

  9. #145
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anatolii View Post
    to be honest i have no clue what you're trying to mean, but never mind.

    shuttlecock tampering seems serious enough an offense and if CJ did something like that, it's quite unbelievable that no officials ever caught him at it or could find evidence of his tampering.

    and if i was there seeing CJ do something to the shuttle, i still can't be in a hurry to affirm that Yes, CJ's a lowly character for resorting to lowly measures in order to win, because after all i only saw him do what i am now describing as "a strange manipulation" to the shuttle.

    and for most of us who claim to be very objective about the players, we have even less need to jump to conclusions so easily and form poor opinions about others without strong evidence. what good does it do us to be opinionated? so far, i only see people getting worked up (and i get worked up reading all the comments of these 'worked-up' people) over what are really just speculations. of course, undeniably there are the ones who by nature enjoy bad-mouthing, but we don't really want to talk to these people, do we?
    if you read my earlier posts

    i didn't even want to mention anything about chen jin's manipulating shuttle

    it is purely speculation even though the commentator mention something like that

    it was until one member who was there and confirm that to us

    of course if this member is someone who like to bad mouth i won't believe a word he said

    unless you can find a reason this member kming is a bad mouth, is a liar then

    i will take back what i have posted earlier. fair?

    i am here not to discredit chen jin or up taufik's balls

  10. #146
    Regular Member Bbn's Avatar
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    i dont play tournaments and don't play to win at all costs, so I don't know how to manipulate the shuttle to my advantage

    on the sly. But have you experienced buying tubes of shuttles which are too fast? How do you slow them down to a reasonable speed? Twisting tip of feathers as mentioned, increasing the circumference of the ring,fluffing up the feathers etc? are there more subtle ways (which can even escape cameras,spectators,I mean unbiased ones,or officials?
    A person is innocent until proven guilty or is the target of complaints from a wide array of sources and when accused of sth without proof needs to have his name cleared. Years back when many had yet to join the forum, the forum was full of postings from biased members accusing Bao of manipulating feathers when he played Taufik, so it is nth new.

  11. #147
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    A good theory no doubt.

    However... At least a large part of the people posting here are 100% sure that Taufik is
    1) Low enough to resort to match delay tactics
    2) Easy to be fooled by other players.

    for point 1) I've never seen Taufik complain when he played and lost to LCW, another tip top fit retriever. Why complain when playing CJ?

    for point 2)... fool with the Master Taufik? That would be more difficult than fooling a live telecast me thinks
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheung View Post
    I've only read part of the thread but I agree with taneepak. Any manipulation of the shuttle on the court with one hand would be very hard to control. The shuttle would twist a lot afterwards.

    I would be more inclined to think it's clever mind games by CJ to disrupt Taufik's rhythm. What I would do is to 'pretend' to manipulate the shuttle, then put more energy into the rally to win the point. Seeds of doubt get sown into Taufik's mind and then hopefully mistakes start flowing.

    The referee having a word with CJ may only be 'stop messing around'.


    Mindgames are also played by the crowd - cheering at lost points, disruption during the serve etc. - all to disrupt players concentration.
    Last edited by jug8man; 08-30-2010 at 08:37 AM.

  12. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    A good theory no doubt.

    However... At least of the people posting here are 100% sure that Taufik is
    1) Low enough to resort to match delay tactics
    2) Easy to be fooled by other players.

    for point 1) I've never seen Taufik complain when he played and lost to LCW, another tip top fit retriever. Why complain when playing CJ?

    for point 2)... fool with the Master Taufik? That would be more difficult than fooling a live telecast me thinks
    for point 1) This is the final of the world championships. T definitely wants to win. And delaying a match in this way is allowed by the rules. Now, how come no other players ever complained about ChenJin manipulating shuttles? It is logically possible that ChenJin only uses this when playing against Taufilk, but this does not make sense.

    for point 2) Yes, Taufik can be fooled easily, not by me, but by any top players

  13. #149
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Perhaps if you request for some coaching lessons he will oblige you.



    Quote Originally Posted by taneepak View Post
    Can you please explain how, besides increasing the diameter of the feathers, a shuttlecock speed can be slowed without affecting its flight?
    The diameter across the top of the feathers increases its drag as it becomes larger. Only by bending the feathers outwards, and as a result its diameter increases, can the same shuttle slow its speed because it now becomes a higher-drag projectile.
    BTW, I do provide technical advice to professional players sometimes about shuttlecocks, as some are in the same business through family contacts.

    BTW, TH did say that he lost to CJ because the latter played better. I don't recall TH saying anything about CJ manipulating the shuttle.

  14. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    if you read my earlier posts

    i didn't even want to mention anything about chen jin's manipulating shuttle

    it is purely speculation even though the commentator mention something like that

    it was until one member who was there and confirm that to us

    of course if this member is someone who like to bad mouth i won't believe a word he said

    unless you can find a reason this member kming is a bad mouth, is a liar then

    i will take back what i have posted earlier. fair?

    i am here not to discredit chen jin or up taufik's balls
    You don't get the truth when someone swears that he is telling you the truth. You need the proof. Yes, these are just some thoughts. I can ask, is someone an idiot? I don't have proofs, but I believe that he is an idiot. You already have the conclusion before discussing it, and it seems to me that it will not bring up any health discussion in this way.
    Last edited by logatech; 08-30-2010 at 08:48 AM.

  15. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    Perhaps if you request for some coaching lessons he will oblige you.
    Beside your quick and numerous posts, can you please kindly answer my question for you? Thanks

  16. #152
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    A poll would be interesting.

    Not to decide anything or pass judgement...

    But just to see / find out the forum members opinion on the whole matter. Just a suggestion.

  17. #153
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Forgive my unintended rudeness. Please point out which question are you refering to.

    Quote Originally Posted by logatech View Post
    Beside your quick and numerous posts, can you please kindly answer my question for you? Thanks

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