User Tag List

Page 2 of 16 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 LastLast
Results 18 to 34 of 271
  1. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NY, NY
    Posts
    162
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    i am sure you are not competing with b w f and if you do, i know they won't mind either lol

    and yes, b w f has its own reasons to do the ranking because it is a world body and they develop and promote badminton!

    so whatever you are going to do here please change the thread title,

    it should be something like ''h2h - who is the 2nd best player'' or

    "who is the h2h 2nd best player''

    otherwise to many its simply misleading..
    you misread my post From H2H, LCW is the 2nd best, but since Chen Jin won the WC, some people will rate Chen Jin the 2nd best in the world instead of LCW and his H2H record.

  2. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NY, NY
    Posts
    162
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Please delete my post instead of changed it still under my name. Thanks. I feel uncomfortable that my words changed to other words, but labelled me as the writer. That's not good!

  3. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    12,014
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    Mr Choi?

    .
    Choi Hoi Jin, has 100% record vs LD thus far
    CJ 2nd best cos he won WC? I suppose you mean currently since Taufik got OG, WC, AG.
    Last edited by eaglehelang; 09-13-2010 at 11:57 AM.

  4. #21
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kuching, Malaysia, Malaysia
    Posts
    4,718
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesd20 View Post
    I changed the thread title to suit what you are talking about. The original title had the ability to inflame people & was quite misleadingcompared with the content of the thread.
    thats was quick!

    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    you misread my post From H2H, LCW is the 2nd best, but since Chen Jin won the WC, some people will rate Chen Jin the 2nd best in the world instead of LCW and his H2H record.
    i may have misread your post from the start because your original title tells one thing and your opening statement another

    but now the mod is kind to change for you, i do see your point in this thread.

    actually one doesn't need to do a h2h count to see who is the best player!

    btw, what i have read so far, i can't figure out this:

    you got all the statistic of all the potential top players and it looks like lin dan is top, followed by lcw then chen jin

    and now you pick chen jin as no.2 just because you think some people will rate him so?

    then whats the point of your h2h count?

    please make up your mind or i am still misreading your post lol

  5. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    US
    Posts
    2,613
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I do not share your opinion on this... To me the randomness is not the main factor here. It is more related to styles. Each player has his own forte and weakness. LD and LCW are overall better players than CH and SDK, but that doesn't mean CH and SDK's victories are mainly due to luck. (In fact, the 5:5 H2H between CH and LD is a bit not fair to CH -- CH was very sick during the Japan Open final -- there is a video of this match).

    About BCL, if you watch BCL's early games in 02-03, he had something he does not have today: Speed. The speed of young, injury-free BCL, combined with his height/reach, makes him a lethal attacker, which he has not been anymore since 2006.

    To summarize, I would not use "randomness" to explain the H2H of two players over a long period like 5+ years. There has to be some deeper reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    Mr Choi?

    Badminton match is still a stochastic process, at least to me. Even though LD vs Choi should be 90% vs 10%, but Choi still has the chance, very likely to happen.

    The same stochastic process applied to CH vs LD, In early days, CH vs LD was 60:40, but unfortunately LD won. After several years, LD became dominant, CH vs LD became 40:60, but unfortunately again CH won.

    The same thing I can see between BCL vs Gade. When BCL was a teenager, Gade was the #1 in the ranking, BCL beat PG twice in their first 2 encounters, and taking an early lead 2:0 in their head 2 head. Then Gade became older and older, and BCL became maturer and stronger, ironically BCL began to lose to Gade, Now Gade took the lead in h2h with 6:4.

    Same thing to LCW vs Sony. First Sony is a very solid player, while LCW could be the better one. But since their junior years, in the junior world championship, BCL bt LD advanced to final, and Sony bt LCW advanced to final, I think from that time, LCW got a phobia against Sony.

  6. #23
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kuching, Malaysia, Malaysia
    Posts
    4,718
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    I do not share your opinion on this... To me the randomness is not the main factor here. It is more related to styles. Each player has his own forte and weakness. LD and LCW are overall better players than CH and SDK, but that doesn't mean CH and SDK's victories are mainly due to luck. (In fact, the 5:5 H2H between CH and LD is a bit not fair to CH -- CH was very sick during the Japan Open final -- there is a video of this match).

    About BCL, if you watch BCL's early games in 02-03, he had something he does not have today: Speed. The speed of young, injury-free BCL, combined with his height/reach, makes him a lethal attacker, which he has not been anymore since 2006.

    To summarize, I would not use "randomness" to explain the H2H of two players over a long period like 5+ years. There has to be some deeper reason.
    the h2h count maybe something interesting to follow but it also has something missing

    i think you may have given us some clue there

  7. #24
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    u.s.a.
    Posts
    19,157
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    LCW holds the winning h2h against CJ. I would rank LCW the 2nd best without any doubt before the World Championship. But the things changed after the WC. CJ won the WC, that's the reason for this thread. H2h is important to see one's ability. But winning something big is also important even though it's a kind of combination of mental toughness and pure luck.
    ..then the categories/criterias will be a combined one (H2H + winning titles + winning major titles)..different thread/topic than this..
    Which one are you after?..
    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    I checked the h2h for the top 10 (actually more than top 10). Even for top 10: (listed below)

    LCW lost to LD, tied with Sony and Chen Long, won others.
    CJ lost to LD and LCW, BCL, won others.

    If we count winning record as 2 points, tie as 1 point, lossing as 0 points, maximum point is 18
    LD = 18 points; won 9 against everyone
    LCW = 14 points; won 6 tied 2 lost 1
    ...
    ..there you have it. But that only counts for the current active MS players.
    Also, a few folks mentioned CH having almost equal H2H with LD. If CH has a better overall H2H records vs. any of the current top 10, then he might be considered as no.2. If we want to count this decade, then we have to consider CH's playing career and H2H records vs. any of today's 10 top players.
    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    LCW holds the winning h2h against CJ. I would rank LCW the 2nd best without any doubt before the World Championship. But the things changed after the WC. CJ won the WC, that's the reason for this thread. H2h is important to see one's ability. But winning something big is also important even though it's a kind of combination of mental toughness and pure luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by ye333 View Post
    ...
    Also, what is the H2H of LD vs CH? A few years ago I think it's something like 5:5, but maybe LD is leading now... (Just checked bwf H2H, it's officially 5:5 -- but we all know the bwf H2H is not complete).

    Btw, in the bwf H2H, it shows LD beat CH in 2005 MAS Open, but doesn't show any detail. Did CH give LD a WO or something? Anyone remembers?
    here's the related thread:
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...Quarter-Finals (post #75)..
    As far as i'm concerned, complete or not, LD vs. CH's H2H record is pretty much even.

    As for the mention of the Asian Games being higher than the SS, despite the event being held every 4 yrs, it is not an IBF/BWF sanctioned event (at least in the past; maybe they are changing the status now). The reason is, unlike the Olympics Games, it only allows a limited number of participants from certain regions. If they are to give a higher ranking level to the Asian Games, then how about the Commonwealth Games (which is also a quadrennial event)?
    Last edited by ctjcad; 09-13-2010 at 02:12 PM.

  8. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    US
    Posts
    2,613
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    So it is a WO... Thanks! Honestly I am a bit surprised by CH doing so well against LD.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post

    here's the related thread:
    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru...Quarter-Finals (post #75)..
    As far as i'm concerned, complete or not, LD vs. CH's H2H is pretty much even.

    As for the mention of the Asian Games being higher than the SS, despite the event being held every 4 yrs, it is not an IBF/BWF sanctioned event (at least in the past; maybe they are changing the status now). The reason is, unlike the Olympics Games, they only allow a limited number of participants from certain regions. If they are to give a higher ranking level to the Asian Games, then how about the Commonwealth Games (which is also a event)?

  9. #26
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NY, NY
    Posts
    162
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Sorry to make you guys confused.

    My question is simple, who's the 2nd best player now? It's a very subjective question. No reason needed. Just tell me from the bottom of your heart.

    I'm not sure myself. That's the reason I did some h2h and title winning records research. I'm not talking about how to evaluate a player, not talking about overall history, not talking about Chen Hong or other retirees. I just want to know what do you think who's the 2nd best?

    For myself, I would say LCW's 2nd best before the WC, but now, I am not sure. Either Chen Jin or LCW should be the 2nd best. Other players are far falling behind. I also think LD is the best, not worth to argue. If you guys disagree, please list your order for the best players. There is no rule how to calculate, just personal opinion.

    Thanks for everyone's input. Please totally ignore the h2h stuff which I used to check how good they are myself.

    Although bwf has the ranking, what I try to have is a personal power ranking; because I don't believe the bwf ranking and the real capabilities of the players are the same thing. Of course it's a personal ranking, therefore, everyone should come up with different list. Here is mine:

    1. Lin Dan
    2. Chen Jin or Lee CW
    3. Bao CL, Taufik, Gade, Sony
    4. Chen Long, Simon Santoso, Ponsana, Park SH
    5. Shon WH, NTM, Tago, JOJ, Hafiz

  10. #27
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    u.s.a.
    Posts
    19,157
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    ...
    For myself, I would say LCW's 2nd best before the WC, but now, I am not sure. Either Chen Jin or LCW should be the 2nd best. Other players are far falling behind. I also think LD is the best, not worth to argue. If you guys disagree, please list your order for the best players. There is no rule how to calculate, just personal opinion.
    ...
    2. Chen Jin or Lee CW
    ...
    ..here's the dilemma. Some say if CJ had met LCW in the MS Final of the 2010 WC, based on their H2H record, LCW would have the upper hand. But since it never materialized, we would never know if indeed CJ or LCW would win. Thus we can only go by their H2H record and wait for their next H2H meeting to see if indeed LCW is 2nd best now (if LCW wins) or CJ has overtaken him (if CJ wins).

  11. #28
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NY, NY
    Posts
    162
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..here's the dilemma. Some say if CJ had met LCW in the MS Final of the 2010 WC, based on their H2H record, LCW would have the upper hand. But since it never materialized, we would never know if indeed CJ or LCW would win. Thus we can only go by their H2H record and wait for their next H2H meeting to see if indeed LCW is 2nd best now (if LCW wins) or CJ has overtaken him (if CJ wins).
    I just realized that there is no reason for reasoning. Lin Dan had a big upper hand against Park, so what? LD should be listed after Park?

    Could you just kindly and frankly give your power ranking list? Thanks

  12. #29
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    u.s.a.
    Posts
    19,157
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    I just realized that there is no reason for reasoning. Lin Dan had a big upper hand against Park, so what? LD should be listed after Park?

    Could you just kindly and frankly give your power ranking list? Thanks
    - I'm going with H2H record and then overall accomplishment. LD over PSH. Btw, why bring up LD and PSH?
    - I've given my power ranking list (who's no.2) in post #3 and pretty much concur with your list in post #6 (basically going with H2H record).

  13. #30
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NY, NY
    Posts
    162
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    - I'm going with H2H record and then overall accomplishment. LD over PSH. Btw, why bring up LD and PSH?
    - I've given my power ranking list (who's no.2) in post #3 and pretty much concur with your list in post #6 (basically going with H2H record).
    thanks for your input. Already saw that. You are the only one helped me answering this tough question.

  14. #31
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kuching, Malaysia, Malaysia
    Posts
    4,718
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    actually this h2h thing was brought up before in one of the threat

    and more or less the same thing on lcw and lin dan

    by the response from bc members one can tell eventually its more like a personal opinion

    and the discussion going way too long and it ended up with warnings from the mod

    here's the blog:

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru.....-PART-1-of-2

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/foru.....-PART-2-of-2

  15. #32
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    马来西亚
    Posts
    8,336
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    pBM, it's thread!!!

    My personal opinion, albeit biased but from the bottom of my heart, the second best player is still LCW. Talking about the WC, we should see what the draw had thrown to CJ : Ville Lang, Kestusis Navickas, Ashton Chen, Hsuan Yi Hsueh, Peter Hoeg Gade, Taufik Hidayat
    The names I had highlighted in bold are the only ones who are accomplished and are known to have beaten top players. So, although he definitely battle his way from R64 to the title, he had only defeated TWO top players. In a normal SS tournament, people would think that LCW would have no problem winning this title. WC... again, big match mentality. But does that count to a player being better than another?
    And I don't think we can argue that LCW, on his normal day can defeat those two players. Of course, ironically in the WC LCW lost to Taufik Hidayat. I mentioned the AG as LCW and CJ's meeting platform earlier, not about who would be stronger in that event as LCW is still not fully fit (back injury!) If LCW is fully fit by the Japan Open, then we can use that platform.

  16. #33
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kuching, Malaysia, Malaysia
    Posts
    4,718
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    sorry every body, my typo mistake

    should be thread instead of threat

  17. #34
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,876
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

Page 2 of 16 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Victor Meteor X80 (MX80) vs. Yonex Voltric 80 (VT80) - head to head!
    By kwun in forum Badminton Rackets / Equipment
    Replies: 54
    : 04-30-2011, 07:07 AM
  2. What is the head-to-head record between Lindan and Taufik?
    By dedema in forum Professional Players
    Replies: 4
    : 12-05-2009, 09:56 PM
  3. How does 'head heavy' or 'head light' effect a racquet's suitability for a player?
    By bad_man_ton in forum Badminton Rackets / Equipment
    Replies: 34
    : 06-12-2007, 05:10 AM
  4. Head to Head record
    By tutu_h in forum General Forum
    Replies: 0
    : 01-17-2006, 06:41 AM
  5. Oval head, isometric head and ovaliso head.
    By Extremesmash in forum Badminton Rackets / Equipment
    Replies: 5
    : 11-18-2004, 01:39 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •