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  1. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    Thats the fact. Now you know not everything is on TS
    THe match stats are on Tournament software but not on BWF H2H thingy. But here in BC, we got discusss SEA Games stats before when refering to related players.
    In that case,Asian Games later this year also cannot count as it's not in BWF list, but AG is considered one of 4 major tourney by Asia players.
    If I not mistaken, AG dont have to follow WR to enter, so it's possible for low ranking players to meet high ranking ones.

  2. #53
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    that's what i meant. Don't count the records even not counted by BWF. Those matches are either private, or limited locally, if counted, would be unfair to all the players. Let's just count the fair, open matches. I read LD even lost to some China local club players in local competitions. Aslo as some experts here mentioned, those players even do not have 2nd chance to play LD anymore, thus the statistics doesn't make any sense because it's not repeatable. Let's stick to the BWF offical records, then the world becomes much cleaner and easier.
    So, are you discounting wins in AG? (Most notably TH 1 and LD 2 in AG 2006) Which is counted as a major tourney for Asian badminton lovers because it is not BWF sanctioned? So, are we not supposed to count the Olympics? It's still an official match, both players are still trying their best. Are we going to not give credit to LD for his 2 wins over TH in the 2006 AG? Are we not going to give credit to KKK/TBH who won the Asian Gold medal because its unfair for other players? These tourneys are recognized worldwide, as shown in BC 2010 tournament forums. It's not some silly club game where anyone can lose and win. It's official.

    Then and again, I can see your point. It becomes messy for the H2H record as it is shrouded in uncertainty, isn't it? Sorry if I came off sounding harsh at the top, I don't mean any ill-intent, just adding for the sake of argument.

  3. #54
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    But we can proof it in an objective matter, if he mind about being subjective

    I just realised this is my 1000th post.......yuhuu...
    if you didn't mention you hit 1000 post i also didn't know i just double you lol

  4. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    that's what i meant. Don't count the records even not counted by BWF. Those matches are either private, or limited locally, if counted, would be unfair to all the players. Let's just count the fair, open matches. I read LD even lost to some China local club players in local competitions. Aslo as some experts here mentioned, those players even do not have 2nd chance to play LD anymore, thus the statistics doesn't make any sense because it's not repeatable. Let's stick to the BWF offical records, then the world becomes much cleaner and easier.
    East Asian Games is a private/limited/local????? you must be joking right??
    LD also missing so many tournament, does it make a fair judgement on the record???
    All we can say is LD has better H2H record compare to others, full stop and nothing more.

  5. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    if you didn't mention you hit 1000 post i also didn't know i just double you lol
    hahaha what a timing

  6. #57
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    Hmm, isnt H2H about how many times Player A meet Player B in International tournaments, stats of who won, who lost. It's about them vs each other, at international level, not about type of tournament.

    If we're basing the hmmm...status on titles won, then yes, there's much to debate about.

  7. #58
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow It is not easy to start a player's ranking based on his Head-to-Head records

    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    that's what i meant. Don't count the records even not counted by BWF. Those matches are either private, or limited locally, if counted, would be unfair to all the players. Let's just count the fair, open matches. I read LD even lost to some China local club players in local competitions. Aslo as some experts here mentioned, those players even do not have 2nd chance to play LD anymore, thus the statistics doesn't make any sense because it's not repeatable. Let's stick to the BWF offical records, then the world becomes much cleaner and easier.
    .
    BWF World Ranking is fairer, cleaner and easier to use/read than the Head-to-Head Results. BWF gives us both the World Ranking positions and the Head-to-Head records.

    BWF World Ranking is updated every week, whether players participate in the the latest tournaments or not. The Head-to-Head Results are updated only when players participate.

    IMHO, it is difficult/messy/disorderly to start a player's ranking based on his Head-to-Head records.
    .

  8. #59
    Regular Member Thom_bad's Avatar
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    For sure the official ranking will remain the best one but another type of ranking based on H2H can be an interesting stats tool

  9. #60
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Use the Head-to-Head Records to find out who has defeated who in past matches

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom_bad View Post
    For sure the official ranking will remain the best one but another type of ranking based on H2H can be an interesting stats tool
    .
    That's what I meant;

    Use the BWF World Rankings to find out who is the best player in the world.

    Use the Head-to-Head Records to find out who has defeated who in past matches.
    .

  10. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    that's what i meant. Don't count the records even not counted by BWF. Those matches are either private, or limited locally, if counted, would be unfair to all the players. Let's just count the fair, open matches. I read LD even lost to some China local club players in local competitions. Also as some experts here mentioned, those players even do not have 2nd chance to play LD anymore, thus the statistics doesn't make any sense because it's not repeatable. Let's stick to the BWF offical records, then the world becomes much cleaner and easier.
    just?

    let see
    u mean asian games are not fair and open matches?
    south east asian games are not fair and open matches?
    east asian games are not fair and open matches?
    hmm,how about 2002 thomas cup?i didnt saw it in tournament software,does that mean thomas cup 2002 isn't a fair and open matches?

    -------------------------------------
    on a side note: lin dan never lost to any local clubs players unless u can prove to us with showing us what u 'read'
    -------------------------------------

    yeah,lin dan still has the best head to head record of top players
    full stop

  11. #62
    Regular Member Thom_bad's Avatar
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    yup the TS data base ins't complete enough as it doesn't take the non-BWF tournaments in its H2H.....

  12. #63
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelast View Post
    that's what i meant. Don't count the records even not counted by BWF. Those matches are either private, or limited locally, if counted, would be unfair to all the players. Let's just count the fair, open matches. I read LD even lost to some China local club players in local competitions. Aslo as some experts here mentioned, those players even do not have 2nd chance to play LD anymore, thus the statistics doesn't make any sense because it's not repeatable. Let's stick to the BWF offical records, then the world becomes much cleaner and easier.
    you mean bwf ranking or your h2h count?

    or your h2h count based on bwf tournaments only?

    if that's the case you have to ask the mod to change your thread title again

    something like this:

    "ms: who has the best head to head records of top players in bwf sanctioned tournaments only"

  13. #64
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    All we can say is LD has better H2H record compare to others, full stop and nothing more.
    Quote Originally Posted by limsy View Post
    yeah,lin dan still has the best head to head record of top players
    full stop
    yes, its that simple

  14. #65
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    ..all these H2H records discussions and debates (between players) have been going on for yrs in BC, way before a few of the posters in this thread joined BC..So, nothing new and nothing surprising..

  15. #66
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Use the BWF World Rankings to find out who are the best players in the world

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..all these H2H records discussions and debates (between players) have been going on for yrs in BC, way before a few of the posters in this thread joined BC..So, nothing new and nothing surprising..
    .
    That is why I suggested that we;

    * Use the BWF World Rankings to find out who are the best players in the world.
    * Use the Head-to-Head Records to find out who has defeated who in past matches.
    .

  16. #67
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    That is why I suggested that we;

    * Use the BWF World Rankings to find out who are the best players in the world.
    * Use the Head-to-Head Records to find out who has defeated who in past matches.
    .
    - 1st one, not really relevant as the original poster/thread starter only wants to find out from our opinion who we think is the no.2 (OP then brought up H2H as one way to determine who's no.2; thus the thread ending up with the above title, which has already been brought up/discussed/debated many times before)..
    - 2nd one, we've brought that up pretty much in the first page and a half of this thread..

  17. #68
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Thumbs up No.1 = Choi Ho Jin (KOR)

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    - 1st one, not really relevant as the original poster/thread starter only wants to find out from our opinion who we think is the no.2 (OP then brought up H2H as one way to determine who's no.2; thus the thread ending up with the above title, which has already been brought up/discussed/debated many times before)..
    - 2nd one, we've brought that up pretty much in the first page and a half of this thread..
    .
    If that is the case, then we shall have;

    No.1 = Choi Ho Jin (KOR)
    No.2 = Lin Dan (CHN)
    .

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