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  1. #69
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    If that is the case, then we shall have;

    No.1 = Choi Ho Jin (KOR)
    No.2 = Lin Dan (CHN)
    .
    ..you're serious or joking??..
    how about CHJ's record vs. the other top 10 MS players??..do you have the H2H records??..
    i think there should be a minimum no. of matches play to have a legit H2H record..say maybe 3 minimum H2H matches between players..
    Last edited by ctjcad; 09-14-2010 at 05:32 PM.

  2. #70
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow If we are not to talk about H2H record in this thread, then I am confused

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..you're serious or joking??..
    how about CHJ's record vs. the other top 10 MS players??..do you have the H2H records??..
    i think there should be a minimum no. of matches play to have a legit H2H record..say maybe 3 minimum H2H matches between players..
    .
    IMHO, when we talk about statistics, we shall talk about numerical values only.

    CHJ has a !00% H2H record over LD. That's what I and other BCers have posted.

    If we are not talking about H2H record in this thread, then I am confused.
    .
    Last edited by chris-ccc; 09-14-2010 at 05:48 PM.

  3. #71
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Default Don't be confused...

    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    IMHO, when we talk about statistics, we shall talk about numerical values only.

    CHJ has a !00% H2H record over LD. That's what I and other BCers have posted.

    If we are not talking about H2H record in this thread, then I am confused.
    .
    ..that's fine, if you or anyone else wants to bring up statistics, numerical values and H2H...then i ask, do you have CHJ's H2H record vs. the other top 10 MS players??..or you really want to take his lone meeting and lone win, playing in a non-BWF sanctioned tourney nonetheless, vs. Super Dan seriously????..
    It's fine if you and others take it seriously. But if you ask me, it's pretty much irrelevant, almost a joke.

  4. #72
    Regular Member chris-ccc's Avatar
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    Arrow Use the Head-to-Head Records to find out who has defeated who in past matches

    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    ..that's fine, if you or anyone else wants to bring up statistics, numerical values and H2H...then i ask, do you have CHJ's H2H record vs. the other top 10 MS players??..or you really want to take his lone meeting and lone win, playing in a non-BWF sanctioned tourney nonetheless, vs. Super Dan seriously????..
    It's fine if you and others take it seriously. But if you ask me, it's pretty much irrelevant, almost a joke.
    .
    I think you have missed my point.

    My point is;
    * Use the BWF World Rankings to find out who are the best players in the world.
    * Use the Head-to-Head Records to find out who has defeated who in past matches.
    .

  5. #73
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris-ccc View Post
    .
    I think you have missed my point.

    My point is;
    * Use the BWF World Rankings to find out who are the best players in the world.
    * Use the Head-to-Head Records to find out who has defeated who in past matches.
    .
    ..and what did i reply in post #67??..

  6. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    or you really want to take his lone meeting and lone win, playing in a non-BWF sanctioned tourney nonetheless, vs. Super Dan seriously????..
    It's fine if you and others take it seriously. But if you ask me, it's pretty much irrelevant, almost a joke.
    Well to compare players using solely on H2H record is a joke to me in the first place
    Dont get me wrong, Im not saying you are......but are you??

  7. #75
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    Actually, I find the 'points' system that freelast introduced fairly interesting, but what if one of the top ten players rarely meet the others? He will have less opportunities to defeat them and therefore have less points. But of course, those who participate in so few (Lin Dan) but are extremely strong will have very few chances to get defeated. Maybe we should set a cap of several tournaments, just like BWF, but only for H2H!

  8. #76
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    using the h2h count or record to determine the best player is something interesting

    there is no question about it

    provided it is done on a systematic order, not adding new rules every now and then.

    when that starts to happen, god knows where we are heading for..


    i think the best is still old fashioned bwf ranking,

    more tournament played and won gets you more points .....

  9. #77
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pBmMalaysia View Post
    using the h2h count or record to determine the best player is something interesting

    there is no question about it

    provided it is done on a systematic order, not adding new rules every now and then.

    when that starts to happen, god knows where we are heading for..


    i think the best is still old fashioned bwf ranking,

    more tournament played and won gets you more points .....
    Yup, but a H2H points ranking will be very useful too! We can have something like a 2010 H2H points system where the players can collect points from battling against the top 10 but it will be confusing and unsystematic, but such an idea is possible, if there is someone hardworking enough to compile it! HOWEVER, the top 10 changes from time to time too...

  10. #78
    Regular Member ctjcad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    Well to compare players using solely on H2H record is a joke to me in the first place
    Dont get me wrong, Im not saying you are......but are you??
    - Please refer to the 1st post. Are you referring to the thread starter? And i believe the thread starter only focuses on current active MS players; not those players from 20, 30, 40 yrs back. I think the thread starter wants to use the H2H factor as the main criteria in determining who's the no.2 player.
    - I only take the H2H record (current active MS players), just like in the 1st post, to determine who's arguably the no.2 player because it's simple and there's really nothing to disagree with the H2H record.
    - If solely using the H2H record to compare players is a joke to you, then why do you think so?
    - If you have other ways to determine who's the no.2 player or to compare players, please share them with us?
    Last edited by ctjcad; 09-15-2010 at 03:51 PM.

  11. #79
    Regular Member Thom_bad's Avatar
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    H2H record is only usefull for my Fanbad

  12. #80
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Ata boy that's correct for fanbad!

    Or when we are betting...he he

    Or by lin dan's fan when he is world no. 2 or 3

    When he is no.1 I don't think there is any mention of a h2h lol

  13. #81
    Regular Member undeadshot's Avatar
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    Ok, since bringing LIN DAN in is so SENSITIVE, let's just change this to WHO IS BETTER : LCW or CJ, LOL

  14. #82
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Ok lin dan in as no doubt he's no.1 (h2h)

    Undisputedly lcw should be no.2 (h2h)

    But some may not agree

    One can just see the excuses

    Such as wc 10 champion is chen jin so he should deserve no.2!

    What is the logic behind this?

    H2h has no rules and op can add 1 after another and so are the anti lcw lol

  15. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    - I only take the H2H record (current active MS players), just like in the 1st post, to determine who's arguably the no.2 player because it's simple and there's really nothing to disagree with the H2H record.
    To rank...yes its simple....but not to say "BEST"
    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    - If solely using the H2H record to compare players is a joke to you, then why do you think so?
    If based on H2H then Mr.Choi is better ranked than LD, but it does not translate Choi is a better player. Therefore solely looking at H2H to determined which player is better is just not a complete and fair assesment.
    Another example: based on H2H ranking, CL is ranked 8th while he tied with LCW, PG, TH, SS, NTM hence how can we justify that CL is ranked below them?? As far as Im concern, based on H2H result only CL is as good as LCW, PG, TH, SS, NTM
    Quote Originally Posted by ctjcad View Post
    - If you have other ways to determine who's the no.2 player or to compare players, please share them with us?
    You mean to determine no.2 as for 2nd best player??? or 2nd in the H2H ranking?? You see there is a wide river between those 2, so dont jump in if you cant swim or God is not on your side

  16. #84
    Regular Member pBmMalaysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoppy View Post
    To rank...yes its simple....but not to say "BEST"

    If based on H2H then Mr.Choi is better ranked than LD, but it does not translate Choi is a better player. Therefore solely looking at H2H to determined which player is better is just not a complete and fair assesment.
    Another example: based on H2H ranking, CL is ranked 8th while he tied with LCW, PG, TH, SS, NTM hence how can we justify that CL is ranked below them?? As far as Im concern, based on H2H result only CL is as good as LCW, PG, TH, SS, NTM

    You mean to determine no.2 as for 2nd best player??? or 2nd in the H2H ranking?? You see there is a wide river between those 2, so dont jump in if you cant swim or God is not on your side
    lol rank and best, yes these 2 things must be differentiated when we use the h2h

    a good point indeed!

  17. #85
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    2 lists:

    1) LD = 18 points; won 9 against everyone

    2) LCW = 14 points; won 6 tied 2 lost 1
    3) CJ = 12 points; won 6 lost 3
    3) BCL = 12 points; lost to LD, LCW, PG, won others

    5) Taufik = 9 points lost to LD, LCW, CJ, BCL, tied with Chen Long, won PG, Simon, Sony, Nguyen
    6) Sony = 8 points; lost to LD, CJ, BCL, TH, tie with SS, LCW, won PG, Chen Long, NTM
    7) P Gade = 7 points; lost to LD, TH, LCW, CJ, Sony, tied with Chen Long, won BCL, SS, NTM

    8) Chen Long = 5 points; lost to LD, CJ, BCL, Sony, tied with LCW, PG, TH, SS, NTM
    9) Simon = 4 points; lost to LD, LCW, CJ, BCL, PG, TH, tied with Sony, Chen Long; won NTM

    10) NTM = 1 points; only tied with Chen Long 0:0

    1 MAS[MAS] Chong Wei LEE5015281866.857813
    2 DEN[DEN] Peter Hoeg GADE692670175.11414
    3 CHN[CHN] Jin CHEN5159266502.200410
    4 INA[INA] Taufik HIDAYAT1033762791.713
    5 CHN[CHN] Dan LIN5090660033.9758
    6 INA[INA] Simon SANTOSO5159956790.519113
    7 CHN[CHN] Chunlai Bao512745469411
    8 VIE[VIE] Tien Minh NGUYEN1410754624.79414
    9CHN[CHN] Long CHEN7578753223.149513
    10INA[INA] Sony DWI KUNCORO5042752572.477712

    which is more accurate? you don't need anyone to tell you if you really watch badminton? Even you don't like Chinese, that's fine. But do you really think NTM is a better player than Sony? Give me a break!

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