Results 86 to 102 of 271
09-16-2010, 10:33 AM #86
Where did you get the data of the 1st list and also the 2nd list? How did you come to conclusion that a win equivalent to 2 points and 1 point for a draw?
09-16-2010, 11:57 AM #87
i respect nguyen tien minh to reach this far
regardless his head to head
09-16-2010, 02:41 PM #88
Alos, IMO, the current thread title is a bit off from the original intended argument. To answer the thread title, of couse we know who is the no.1 player and who has the BEST H2H record of all players!
- Again, i can't take CHJ's record seriously. Why? Because as i already mentioned, CHJ only played against 1 of the top 10 MS players only once (and in a non-sanctioned IBF/BWF event i may add). Yes, to me, it's not a fair and complete assessment as he doesn't have any other records against the other top 10 MS players. Whilst the other top 10 MS players have played against other top 10 MS a few times. Please show us CHJ's other H2H records agains the other top 10 MS??
And as i already mentioned, there should be a minimum no. of matches against other players to qualify one's overall H2H record; definitely more than 1 meeting/match. The other top 10 MS players, at least, have done the latter whilst CHJ hasn't.
Btw, if you click on the link below, BWF has no record of CHJ playing against LD.
- For CL's example, I think the thread starter wants to see and compare the overall H2H records between the top MS players (wins, loss, tie). Sure, CL has an even record against LCW, PG, TH, SS, NTM. But in this case, LCW has more winning H2H records against other players than CL's (freelast's stats show it), doesn't he?
- Yes, the original argument was to determine the 2nd best MS player (behind you know who). And, yes, to an extent the 2nd in H2H ranking.
So, what is your suggestion(s) or other way(s) to determine who's the no.2 player (as the thread starter originally intended and wanted to know)??..
*For those who wondered where freelast got the H2H stats to do his ranking (1st list), please see this link and please do your own research!
Last edited by ctjcad; 09-16-2010 at 02:56 PM.
09-16-2010, 05:48 PM #89
Statistics Never Lie But Liars Use Statistics
Many people say that "Statistics Never Lie But Liars Use Statistics".
Even in this discussion, why want to use only selected statistics?
Of course, if we have already made up our minds on who is the No.2 player, then we can gather enough selected statistics to back our claims.
Therefore, I do not like to use the H2H statistics to our rank players. This is because if we use the H2H statistics to our rank players, and if we focus on LD, then LD, our current top player, would be ranked as No.2. It's because LD's H2H records against all players are good, except for LD's H2H record against CHJ.
To me, LD is a much better player than CHJ.
So why use the H2H records that can make CHJ appearing stronger than LD?
09-16-2010, 05:56 PM #90
Since the thread title is who has the best h2h record which has no specific time frame and stringent guidelines unlike the ranking system of BWF then why not let the kids have their day.
To all sensible people out there, list no.2 of post 85 already say it all.
But wait, I forgot its all about h2h only here.
09-16-2010, 05:58 PM #91
Forget to give credit to the OP for finally figured out a way (his point system) to back his claim eventhough it took him some times.
Last edited by Aspire; 09-16-2010 at 06:01 PM.
09-16-2010, 06:31 PM #92
09-16-2010, 06:38 PM #93
09-16-2010, 06:40 PM #94
09-16-2010, 06:46 PM #95
Here's why you cant rank them like that:
Firstly, they dont play equal number of match.
Secondly, they have not been around the same time either, so age and performance may affect the H2H record
At football season, you have same number of matches played for all team at the same season/time. The way you ranked these baddy players are far from that fundamental.
BTW Im Chinese, so its not about i like Chinese or not
Last edited by Yoppy; 09-16-2010 at 06:54 PM.
09-16-2010, 06:51 PM #96
- For the question "why want to use only selected statistics?", you gotta ask the thread starter why use selected stats, in this case the H2H.
- Yes, the thread starter most likely based the no.2 rank player based on the H2H. But he still has a bit of question on whether it's CJ or LCW. That is my guess and that is most likely the route s/he too to find the stats. For me, it sounds legit.
- Please find or show us LD vs. CHJ's H2H record on BWF website. I've given the link above.
- If you don't like to use H2H record to rank the players, then what would you use??..
- I don't quite understand what you're trying to point out in your last sentence/question...As far as i can see, only a few are bringing up CHJ's lone win vs. LD as a big deal..To me, it's irrelevant and shouldn't be used at all..Further, CHJ is not even ranked in the top 50 MS Players..
- What do you mean i should not take the whole H2H seriously? I'm using it as a basis for my argument on why i think LCW is ranked no.2 (that's what the thread starter was asking).
- What kind of flaw(s) in using the H2H record are you referring to?..
- What do you mean the H2H records is not reliable? To me, it shows undisputed facts. To me, it does not matter if all the top 10 MS players didn't play against each other in the same amt. of tourneys. They don't have to.
- I already mentioned at minimum 3 matches. You can go with 2 matches if you want. But it's gotta be more than once.
- If simply using H2H records (which the thread starter also used), then the example of you beating me 3x and me beating you 3x but you winning 1000 times more vs. another opponent is valid. Why not, you have a better overall record against the other players than me.
- So, no answer to this question? : So, what is your suggestion(s) or other way(s) to determine who's the no.2 player (as the thread starter originally intended and wanted to know)??..
Last edited by ctjcad; 09-16-2010 at 07:02 PM.
09-16-2010, 07:20 PM #97
And to me its not what the thread starter wanted to know, he wants our opinion who is the 2nd BEST player after LD. And he use H2H record as a single perimeter.
So which side do you fall under???
BTW thread starter already mentioned to forget about H2H and to use our subjective sense, and let him know.
09-16-2010, 07:34 PM #98
- I've already mentioned numerous times which side i fall under, even prior to this post. It's very obvious.
- So, based on your subjective sense, you go by Rudy Hartono then LD then TH...etc.??..Has Rudy H. played against LD and TH before??..Please explain how you came to that list?..
- Playing against grandmas??..let's be reasonable and focus on the top 10 MS players.
- As long as it's more than once. You can play 2 or 3 or 10 or 20 or 30 times. But let's give a reasonable number.
- Seriously, i still don't see your other suggestion(s) or way(s) to determine whether a player is ranked no.2 or not...please show me..
Thus we go by what is presented to us by how many matches the players have played against each other. I certainly think that's fine, as long as they've played more than once.
Last edited by ctjcad; 09-16-2010 at 07:44 PM.
09-16-2010, 08:00 PM #99
When the OP changes his topic line over and over again, its because he did not had solid factual materials to back his claims. This was obvious when some of you cross-reference and counter his arguments. Its all his own virtual fantasy if you allow me to put it that way.
Some may even acquired an immune system that all logic are no longer valid and instead uses their primary weapon (going round in circles is the call of the day) whenever they failed to put things into perspective.
09-16-2010, 08:03 PM #100
09-16-2010, 08:03 PM #101
The H2H should be viewed statistically, even assume CHJ h2h 1:0 against LD (the fact is 0:0 without counting trival games), but CHJ lost to too many other players, how come he can ranked before LD, your wrong reasoning resulted in wrong conclusions. He's not stronger than LD at all.
Same thing for all the other players. CJ just lost a taiwan player, their h2h is 0:1, does this put that unknown taiwan player ahead of CJ in the h2h ranking? or justify CJ is a weaker player than that guy? definitely not.
when Taufik first played Chen Long, Du PY from China, Taufik lost both, that didn't mean Taufik suddenly weaker than CL or DPY. Same thing apply to LCW vs CL where CL won their first encounters.
You got to read statistics statistically, if you just stick to 1 single data, you will definitely get lost.
09-16-2010, 08:11 PM #102
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