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  1. #1
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    Default Players Analysis : Mohd Arif vs Chen Long

    Team Event 15 Jul 07 18 Jul 07
    ARIF Latif gave Malaysia the winning point as the hosts beat China 3-0 to lift the Asian Junior Championships mixed team title at the Juara Stadium in Kuala Lumpur on Wednesday. Arif beat Chen Long 21-19, 22-20 to give Malaysia the winning point.


    This sweet story of the talented and agile youngster, Mohd Arif, was one of the strong points that i predict that Malaysia could have another World Class player in the future. Meanwhile China prodigy, Chen Long, who beat him twice before this in the Melbourne Youth Olympic in the same year, also looks to have a bright future ahead of him.

    3 Years had past and it seems Mohd Arif is missing the boat and drifting away quickly while Chen Long, has now established himself as one of the serious contender in any BWF Super Series.These are their stats: Chen Long vs Mohd Arif



    Chen Long


    2010 Achievements


    Korea Open Super Series - Semi Final
    Proton Malaysia Open Super Series - 1st Round
    All England Super Series - 2nd Round
    Swiss Open Super Series - Runner Up
    Thomas Cup 2010 - 3rd Single player
    Bit Burger 2010 - Champion
    China Master Super Series - Runner Up


    BWF Current Ranking : 9
    Super Series Ranking : 7

    Mohd Arif


    2010 Achievements

    Korea Open Super Series - Qualifying Round
    Proton Malaysia Open Super Series - Qualifying Round
    Malaysia Open GP - 1st Round
    Macau Open - 1st Round
    Chinese Taipei GP - 2nd Round

    BWF Current Ranking : 118
    Super Series Ranking : 65


    At the present moment, Chen Long, as the same batch with Mohd Arif and one of China's young players, has able to positioned himself among the World Top 10 player while Mohd Arif is no where near it. I hope BAM should be seriously worried about this.

  2. #2
    Regular Member george@chongwei's Avatar
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    Yes.. a very good comparison indeed.. that show's perhaps BAM or arif himself failed to groom himself..

    Another slap in the face for BAM?

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    Quote Originally Posted by george@chongwei View Post
    Yes.. a very good comparison indeed.. that show's perhaps BAM or arif himself failed to groom himself..

    Another slap in the face for BAM?
    Yes george. I Hope the new BAM coaching director aware such poor progress and also other slow and no progress players if Malaysia seriously want to progress way forward. What went wrong...... seriously i also lethargic to think of it because sometimes frustration overwhelm to talk about it. BAM can't continously forever hop on Datuk LCW success..........his shoulder has becomes more heavier now.

  4. #4
    Regular Member izwanj_79's Avatar
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    Let just pray that Zulfadli, Iskandar, Misbun Ramdan and many more current youth players does not end up like this...

  5. #5
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    Default Progress Graph: Chen Long vs The Malaysia Backup Players

    This is Chen Long BWF ranking progress graph for 2009/10:

    Name:  Chart_TopRanking_472_8F42FC23-89C1-40CF-8F20-8519DE2BE4EF.png
Views: 604
Size:  4.8 KB

    Lowest : 18
    Highest : 9
    Current : 9

    This are Malaysia backup players BWF ranking progress graph for 2009/10:

    Mohd Arif ( Lowest: 155 / Highest: 81 ) and Liew Darren ( Lowest: 160 / Highest: 60 / Current:106)

    Name:  Chart_TopRanking_472_8FF01D45-3FFA-46D9-B66C-EBDD1386625F.png
Views: 612
Size:  5.8 KBName:  Chart_TopRanking_472_76C0DB76-3230-4FA0-9036-99E71183E73C.png
Views: 610
Size:  5.5 KB

    Chong Wei Feng ( Lowest: 59 / Highest: 45 / Current: 54)

    Name:  Chart_TopRanking_472_B4C578E6-C57D-4414-B7E5-F5C25E21D9E5.png
Views: 595
Size:  6.5 KB

    Tan Shun Seang ( Lowest: 73 / Highest: 58 / Current: 69 )

    Name:  Chart_TopRanking_472_F31FE74C-C00C-4A50-84DE-A9A621B94DF2.png
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  6. #6
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    In talent, training, coaching and funding, MAS is not inferior to CHN or any other country. One thing that differs is MAS players get complacent as there is a lack of internal competition among themselves. HH despite his poor performance knows that besides LCW, he is still the 2nd best player in MAS. Even WCH is still counted on for TC.
    In CHN, especially MS and WS which are ultra competitive, a junior player like CL has to prove himself to be a standout and to make CHN in a short period of time or risk being kicked out. Unlike MAS which is banking on a small group of young players like Ramdan, Arif, etc, CHN has abundance of young players coming up. Li Xue Ri would be a star in MAS, but in CHN, her star is dimming fast. Even JYJ could not play in UC, WC or OLY. WL is out for 6 mth, I am betting she will not defend her crown in WC11 and that makes her the 3rd WS champion from CHN in a row to be out of WC. With stiff competition in CHN, making CHN team far more pressure than facing the competition. It is simply too many superstars or stars in CHN fighting for 2,3 or most 4 spots in major competition. So, if CL can survive in CHN, he has to keep improving otherwise there is WZM, Chou nibbing at his toes. Just my take.
    If you think MS is tough in CHN, try WS, I can't imagine how tough it is to make CHN team, that is why, many CHN players have opted to play for France, HK, Germany, Macau...and probably can play as long as they want...with no competition and a safe job.

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    lol
    why not start a thread between lydia cheah and wang yi han?

  8. #8
    Regular Member Thom_bad's Avatar
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    Nice work Shooting Stroke !

    my point on it is that the difference can come from the fact that the Chinese staff sometimes lie about the age of the players...
    then Chen Long should be older than his 'official' age, and have a few years of training in addition.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thom_bad View Post
    Nice work Shooting Stroke !

    my point on it is that the difference can come from the fact that the Chinese staff sometimes lie about the age of the players...
    then Chen Long should be older than his 'official' age, and have a few years of training in addition.....
    Lie or not. Arif was on par with CL 3 years ago, and 3 years later CL is way way ahead. Something must be wrong there.

  10. #10
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    shows the difference in:-

    - Junior / Age group tournaments with Open Tournaments
    - Individual Potential to grow further
    - Limitation in Physique
    - Attitude towards the game / sport

  11. #11
    Regular Member izwanj_79's Avatar
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    Agree with jug8man,

    Through training, one can improve his/her technical skills, physical, tactical etc. What is actually lacking comparing arif to CL? Experience? talent? attitude? coach? mentally maybe..?

    Most match result are decided by how fast could one adapt and counter their opponent's game. Nowadays badminton tactical are quickly mix during games not like before. One have to be unpredictable in games. I think Arif has the ability and talent but does he himself work hard enough to improve further.

    I wondered, malaysian are hoping that he could someday fill up the shoes left by LCW. But does he ever thought of the same? To become world's best player...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneToughBirdie View Post
    In talent, training, coaching and funding, MAS is not inferior to CHN or any other country. One thing that differs is MAS players get complacent as there is a lack of internal competition among themselves. HH despite his poor performance knows that besides LCW, he is still the 2nd best player in MAS. Even WCH is still counted on for TC.
    In CHN, especially MS and WS which are ultra competitive, a junior player like CL has to prove himself to be a standout and to make CHN in a short period of time or risk being kicked out. Unlike MAS which is banking on a small group of young players like Ramdan, Arif, etc, CHN has abundance of young players coming up. Li Xue Ri would be a star in MAS, but in CHN, her star is dimming fast. Even JYJ could not play in UC, WC or OLY. WL is out for 6 mth, I am betting she will not defend her crown in WC11 and that makes her the 3rd WS champion from CHN in a row to be out of WC. With stiff competition in CHN, making CHN team far more pressure than facing the competition. It is simply too many superstars or stars in CHN fighting for 2,3 or most 4 spots in major competition. So, if CL can survive in CHN, he has to keep improving otherwise there is WZM, Chou nibbing at his toes. Just my take.
    If you think MS is tough in CHN, try WS, I can't imagine how tough it is to make CHN team, that is why, many CHN players have opted to play for France, HK, Germany, Macau...and probably can play as long as they want...with no competition and a safe job.
    Indeed. With the league they're having involves all the province and a lot of unknown player names participating together with the China national players, its the survival to be the best out of the rest makes them a better player. BAM should emulate this by introducing back at least all the states open tournament for an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thom_bad View Post
    Nice work Shooting Stroke !

    my point on it is that the difference can come from the fact that the Chinese staff sometimes lie about the age of the players...
    then Chen Long should be older than his 'official' age, and have a few years of training in addition.....
    Personally i think, either young or old, as far as junior categories is concern, China is still the leader in producing top young player. And at top form, their young player even can possibly challenge or beat their senior players ( Chen Long has beaten all the current 4 kings of badminton last year...Datuk LCW, Lin Dan, Peter Gade and Taufik). In Malaysia, i already forgotten when was the last time in any event (maybe none???), that any of the juniors and backup players even at least drag Datuk LCW till the 3rd set?........

    Quote Originally Posted by izwanj_79 View Post
    Agree with jug8man,

    Through training, one can improve his/her technical skills, physical, tactical etc. What is actually lacking comparing arif to CL? Experience? talent? attitude? coach? mentally maybe..?

    Most match result are decided by how fast could one adapt and counter their opponent's game. Nowadays badminton tactical are quickly mix during games not like before. One have to be unpredictable in games. I think Arif has the ability and talent but does he himself work hard enough to improve further.

    I wondered, malaysian are hoping that he could someday fill up the shoes left by LCW. But does he ever thought of the same? To become world's best player...
    The biggest problem that why Arif or the other backup players or any other Malaysia players don't progress is they :

    - Don't have the determination to work hard as to improve them self like Datuk LCW
    - Don't able to sustain the highest level of commitment towards self improvements like
    Datuk LCW
    - Don't have the high level of self discipline like Datuk LCW
    - Don't have the world class mentality and attitude to become a world class player like
    Datuk LCW ( i know what you did last Thomas cup fairurizuan)
    - They don't realise that under their very nose that the best example to emulate in
    becoming a world class player is always with them that is Datuk LCW
    - BAM should have a KPI method to pin down hard on them so that they will know that
    donning the national shirt is not a simple issue

  13. #13
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    Yes, but they also should have one of the highest Player Burn Out / Crash Out stats if they are not careful. But injuries can come any time out of the blue so I guess we can't stop progress...

    Quote Originally Posted by shooting stroke View Post
    Personally i think, either young or old, as far as junior categories is concern, China is still the leader in producing top young player. And at top form, their young player even can possibly challenge or beat their senior players ( Chen Long has beaten all the current 4 kings of badminton last year...Datuk LCW, Lin Dan, Peter Gade and Taufik). In Malaysia, i already forgotten when was the last time in any event (maybe none???), that any of the juniors and backup players even at least drag Datuk LCW till the 3rd set?........
    If you compare Arif not only to CL but his other peers.... Tanongsak of Thailand, and Tago of Japan, It becomes very evident that Arif has dropped from from being a 'leader' to a player trailing very far behind his peers.

    However... We must understand that this kind of 'comparison' is very LINEAR.

    Besides the issue of Ultimate Potential, which is yet to be determined (unless you can see into the future or read a persons DNA like a pro), The Rate of Players Progress is another factor to consider.

    We can not expect players of the same age to 'blossom' at the same time and pace. Sometimes we must consider the possibility that there will be 'Late Bloomers' among the pack.

    The only question now is... Do we (or more importantly BAM) trully believe that Arif may at least fall into this Category? And is the Measure of the 'Bloom' (i.e. ultimate potential) significant enough to Invest all that Time, effort, attention and Govt Tax Money in for Many Years To Come?

    Not my call to make. Weeeeeeeee

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    Yes, but they also should have one of the highest Player Burn Out / Crash Out stats if they are not careful. But injuries can come any time out of the blue so I guess we can't stop progress...



    If you compare Arif not only to CL but his other peers.... Tanongsak of Thailand, and Tago of Japan, It becomes very evident that Arif has dropped from from being a 'leader' to a player trailing very far behind his peers.

    However... We must understand that this kind of 'comparison' is very LINEAR.

    Besides the issue of Ultimate Potential, which is yet to be determined (unless you can see into the future or read a persons DNA like a pro), The Rate of Players Progress is another factor to consider.

    We can not expect players of the same age to 'blossom' at the same time and pace. Sometimes we must consider the possibility that there will be 'Late Bloomers' among the pack.

    The only question now is... Do we (or more importantly BAM) trully believe that Arif may at least fall into this Category? And is the Measure of the 'Bloom' (i.e. ultimate potential) significant enough to Invest all that Time, effort, attention and Govt Tax Money in for Many Years To Come?

    Not my call to make. Weeeeeeeee
    You have a point there since Datuk LCW is a late bloomer by himself. However personally i think, it is just a great risk expecting for such scenario to exist as far as if there are any long term management that BAM is planning is concern.

    Ariff drifting away from his peers or other similar batch of player from other countries or any Malaysia backup players that are also drifting away from their equivalent peers from other countries just pointing to one concrete fact that they are not progreessing forward but backward currently, regardless whatever method used or scenario that has happen.

  15. #15
    Regular Member jug8man's Avatar
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    True...

    Thus... The only proper gauge we can use is assessing player's ATTITUDE = 100%

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    Quote Originally Posted by jug8man View Post
    True...

    Thus... The only proper gauge we can use is assessing player's ATTITUDE = 100%
    Attitude to change the bellow issue:

    Quote Originally Posted by shooting stroke View Post
    - Don't have the determination to work hard as to improve them self like Datuk LCW
    - Don't able to sustain the highest level of commitment towards self improvements like
    Datuk LCW
    - Don't have the high level of self discipline like Datuk LCW
    - Don't have the world class mentality and attitude to become a world class player like
    Datuk LCW ( i know what you did last Thomas cup fairurizuan)
    - They don't realise that under their very nose that the best example to emulate in
    becoming a world class player is always with them that is Datuk LCW

  17. #17
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    I think its Bam's fault. I have been following Tanongsak, Tago, Alamsyah and Rumbaka career. They are play in in the SS. Badminton is a sparring game.
    The more u spare with higher grade players the more u improve.
    I hardly see the m'sians in the 20/21 years old batch playing in the SS.
    Even those in the 23/24 batch could hardly get to smell the court in an SS tournament.
    Now they just train and spar amongst themselves.
    How to improve like that.
    Chen Long get to spar with Lin Dan Bao and Chen Jin.
    And the fact that there are better players waiting to grab your spot makes you push harder other wise u go back to the provinces.
    Even Du Peng Yu, Lu Yi would be phased out at the "official" age of 22. Wang Zhenming is coming to the fore.
    But BAM always get their priority mixed up.

    Junior Doubles players get to go to SS tournaments and look how they have improved.
    And that also BAM reluctantly allowing the juniors to play more international matches this year.

    Look at the Taiwanese No.1 and No.2 pair. They been playing in the SS and GP regularly for the past 2 years and their results speak for themselves. Remember the Taiwamses still train part time.

    Their singles although not benefitting from full time training and physical conditioning that will make them world champions cam from time to time getting upset results. This is because they are playing top flight baddy more often then Msian juniors. Our Back up and Juniors srtruugle to beat Taiwanese or even the Indian top singles or couldnt beat them at all.

    I dont see Iskandar and Ramdan in the SS but I see Alamsyah whom they could beat easily last year. Dont think they can beat him this year or next cause the formers are still cocoon in training.

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