always hold he racket with a basic grip?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by giant_q_tip, Sep 28, 2010.

  1. giant_q_tip

    giant_q_tip Regular Member

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    im having a real dillema with my grips. ive bene switching back and forth since last year and i only play twice a week but i would really like to improve.

    the thing is this, just recently i learned that the badminton overhead strokes are similar to throwing a ball. (which I didnt know before until like 2 months ago, until I watched a video on youtube)

    so i use the adjusted basic grip like in badmintonbible and when i combine my stroke with the adjusted basic grip, i always have more control. i also rearely play backhands since i can get the ball early around the head.

    however, the video that taught me to hit as if im throwing a bal also instructs to use the bsaic grip. i message the creator of the video and he said he has read the badmintonbible.com article and he said it is wrong. since when it is adjusted you wont get full pronation.

    but anyway ill get straight to he point:

    Basic Grip for EVERYTHING
    - When I use the basic girp, I feel liek I dont have control of myself and the game.
    - The plus side is that my smashes are all steep.
    - BUT sometimes I also end up SLICING my shots by accident.
    -I tend to use my wrist more
    - Every shot requires MORE EFFORT.
    - Very hard to push enemies to the back with my clears.
    - My upper body doesnt ache after i play with basic grip.


    Adjusted Basic Grip
    - When I use the adjusted basic grip (not for everything), I have more control of my games and feel more confident.
    - I can react faster AND anticipate enemy shots more.
    -HOWEVER, switching between forehand and backhand is a pain, and sometimes I use a fist to do backhand drives.
    -Also sometimes I slip into a panhandle grip even when i dont want to while doing overhead shots.
    - It's hard to receive serves with the backhand. I receive every shot with the forehand.
    - Every shot feels accurate and powerful but when it comes to smashing, especially from the back, I can't get a good angle.
    - My clears can really push enemies to the back.
    - Upper body, arm, biceps, forearm, traps and the "wing muscles|" aches likes crazy afer playing with adjusted basic grip.

    I hope i didn't lose anyone. sorry if I wrote a lot :D its just that ive been switching grips back and forth for 1 year now and its really making me performance fluctuate.

    ALSO, do you guys utilize your fingers in overhead strokes? for example, do you guys use your fingers in your smashes to generate power or maybe create angles?; like you swing as if you throw a ball, then hit a thighest point, tighten your fingers and then somehow add power using them?

    because i rarely ue them except to keep my racket from flying when doing overhead strokes. if you hold them tight at the final step of your strokes, do you hold them as tight as you can, or just decently only prevent your racket from slipping from your hand.

    so basically im just wondering, do you use the basic grip all the time in preparation for your shots and when doing overhead strokes? or should you adapt to usng the two in different situations? I mean, sure it may come down to preference in the end, but Id rather learn the corrct technique because unlearnig sucks.. :/

    i know i wrote a lot but if anyone can shed some light i would def appreciate it! :)
     
    #1 giant_q_tip, Sep 28, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2010
  2. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I would love to know what the adjusted basic grip is... I presume you mean the one that is for smashes only? It clearly says on the site, that a small adjustment MAY be beneficial when smashing. It also clearly states it should NOT be used for the other overhead shots. Badminton bible is NOT wrong, however, you may have misinterpreted what the adjusted grip is for. Remember also, that some players don't use the adjusted grip ever.

    When I play ANY overhead shot (smash/clear/drop) then I use the conventional basic grip as shown. I expect sometimes my grip MAY become adjusted when I smash, but I don't think about or worry about that.

    You have stated several things about the basic grip:
    - you feel the basic grip doesn't give you control: thats just lack of practise with the correct grip, it will come in time :)
    - slicing the shuttle may happen, and is a result of not fully pronating the arm at contact, which again comes down to practising with the correct grip :)
    - i would be concerned if you were using your wrist at all, do you mean you turn your forearm (pronate/supinate) more? Think about this, is it the wrist moving, or is the lower half of your arm moving (and the wrist is attached so appears to move as well). The correct way is the arm movement only.
    - You state that every shot requires more effort. Give this a go: before every shot imagine it will be even LESS effort. With the correct technique, your shots WILL BE effortless. Make sure you relax :)
    - As you relax more, the power will flow, and your clears will soar towards the back line :)
    - Your upper body should not ache after playing badminton, if it does, it is a sign of too much stress/tension in the body

    As regard to your other statements: think about your grip. Will having a different grip make it easier to anticipate your opponents shots... that doesn't make sense :s

    You say every shot feels accurate and powerful: if you practice with the correct basic grip, every shot will feel accurate and powerful too.

    Now to your questions:
    Yes I do utilise my fingers, I hold the racket firmly on an overhead stroke and I momentarily tighten my grip even more just before impact with an overhead shot. It does not create that much power, but I do it for every shot. I do not hold as tight as I can, but I hold the racket firmly and then momentarily tighter. It does not create ANY angles. The only thing that generates angles, is being further behind the shuttle and taking it further in front of you.

    So in summary: if you are going to learn one forehand overhead grip, use the basic grip, the adjusted one, is a bit more specialist and can only be used for smashing SOMETIMES - not every smash. When I am waiting for the shuttle, I tend to wait with a basic OR a bevel grip. Remember you must always use the correct backhand grip (either bevel or thumb depending on the situation).

    I hope this helps.

    Matt
     
  3. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Matt's already given excellent advice. :)

    Could you please provide a link to the video? I'm always willing to consider new information, but simply being told I'm "wrong" isn't much use. ;)

    By "adjusted basic grip", I assume you mean this smash grip adjustment. This adjustment prevents you slicing the smash when the impact point is (somewhat) out in front of the body. It's true that moving towards panhandle reduces effective pronation, which is why you must be very careful not to go too far and only to make this adjustment when it "matches" the position of the shuttle.

    So really, it's a compromise: no adjustment means you slice smashes and lose power; too much adjustment makes pronation less effective and you lose power.

    I originally learned this idea from Lee Jae Bok. I subsequently discussed it at great length with a senior member of Badminton England's coaching department (I'm not permitted to name him), who confirmed that the best players naturally do this, but also explained in the dangers involved in teaching it.


    In this case, I'd recommend you stop switching back and forth. You are not giving yourself time to learn and consolidate the basic technique. Stick to the basic grip for now.


    Yes.

    It depends on how much power you're trying to get. If you want maximum power, you'll need to finish on a very tight grip.


    Use the basic grip as a default, but be prepared to adjust as necessary. Make sure you are comfortable and familiar with the basic grip before trying to learn a whole host of adjustments. You should, for example, be able to play clears to a good length without too much effort. If you can't do that yet, then the "adjusted basic grip" is definitely a bad idea for you.
     
    #3 Gollum, Oct 18, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  4. London_Player

    London_Player Regular Member

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    Hey guys, I heard that a local coaching is teaching people with an adjusted grip, you may what is adjusted grip?

    It's between a forehand and a backand grip, for overhead shots and backhand shots!

    You grip the racket with 1 o'clock angle instead of the normal 12 o'clock angle.
     
  5. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    If I've interpreted you correctly, this would mean shifting the grip slightly towards panhandle.

    Such a grip has some applications (e.g. for some forehand smashes and overhead backhands), but should not be taught as a "standard" grip for forehands or backhands. Doing so leaves players with a technical error known as panhandling, and this can be troublesome to correct later. Use a basic grip instead.

    However, I may have misinterpreted your "1 o'clock" description. It's hard to describe grips unambiguously.
     
  6. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Dear Gollum, I have seen a description on a tennis site called FuzzyYellowBalls where the author of the site explains different tennis grips. Although these are different to our grips, he describes VERY accurately every grip, by using references on the hand: The heel pad and the index knuckle, in conjunction with numbering the bevels. Perhaps worth a look if you haven't seen it already. It may be a new way of describing grips for badminton? I believe it is less ambiguous than describing grips in terms of the "v of the hand", which is so often the case. It is perhaps more difficult to understand, but perhaps you would consider it less ambiguous. Just a thought.

    Matt
     
  7. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    I have seen the tennis article in question (although I can't find it now), and I thought it was well written and illustrated. However, I'm uneasy about the idea of teaching the grip to that level of specificity. There are three inherent dangers in over-specifying grips:

    • You could end up specifying something wrong!
    • You could specify something too restrictively.
    • You could make it more difficult to learn (because it's more complicated to teach).

    Specifying something wrong is more likely as you go into greater detail and insist that the detail must be followed -- i.e. "good technique requires X", as opposed to "try experimenting with X". Specifying something wrong is harmful, because many players will take your word for it and never experiment in a contrary direction. The classic example of this is the old backhand grip (a full thumb grip), which was taught for all backhand shots. This was just wrong, but many players (including me!) assumed their coach must be correct. I spent hours practising backhand clears using a thumb grip; despite no real progress, and despite feeling that the grip was wrong, I never let myself experiment with a different grip. I was too much in awe of my coach to try a technique that contradicted his advice.

    Specifying something too restrictively means that you've described one good option as the only good option. This is harmful because it gives the players less room to experiment. Obviously we want them to experiment in a productive direction (i.e. good technique), but it's bad to restrict the parameters unnecessarily. Although badminton has a high degree of technique convergence at the top level (compared to tennis, for example), there's still some room for individual variations in the technique. Some variations may even come from physical differences, such as longer or shorter fingers.

    Coaching inherently involves making trade-offs between simplicity and detail. At any given point, you want to express just enough detail to help the players learn and practise. Hitting them with all the details at once generally causes confusion and reduces the effectiveness of the practice. This trade-off is not fixed forever: subsequent coaching sessions can go into progressively more detail.

    In face-to-face coaching, the problem of ambiguity is relatively easy to solve: you just check what the players are doing. As for discussion or teaching through books or the web, it's also easy enough to solve: you just make a clear reference (such as my guide). I would not introduce complexity unless I felt it improved the end result.

    Having said all that, I believe there are some problems with the current grips teaching, and some aspects need to be specified better. More on this later...
     
  8. nprince

    nprince Regular Member

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    Mseeley & Gollum.
    Very informative and thanks. I M O, there is no point in fine tuning grips too much. It is a personal preference & your ideal grip will depend on lot of other variants-your position in the court, position at which you wish to make contact with the bird, where you want to send it etc. Even if you are a master of the grips, there will be a lot of deviation to adjust in such a way that you make contact square on & your hitting mechanism is correct-using all the power generating motions available. During a smash or drive, you may start with one grip and end with another one. Hence, as a coach, if you can guide a player with the major grips and the correct stroke mechanism, you have done your job. Rest is for the player to experiment and to understand, what adjustment is ideal for each situation.
    NP
     

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